Should it be MANDATORY to notify LE that you are carrying concealed with a permit?

[Blacksmoke]

I have had weapon in my truck during the few traffic stops, under the seat of behind it. I do not confuse the situation by adding any information as it is just a matter of talking back and forth through the window. However, if I am carrying concealed and am ordered out of my vehicle, at that point I would inform the LEO that I am licensed to carry concealed and am carrying. This is while keeping my hands up some. This is not about legal details. This is about common courtesy and not getting pistol whipped or sapped or tasered, or pepper sprayed.

Come to think of it, I did spend about two hours with a very nice Colorado State Patrol trooper on the side of a two lane highway near the NM/CO border. I was trying to catch an orphaned and sickly elk calf with a lariat to bring him home for recovery and release. I had a 1911 on my belt under my jacket and I am sure that he saw the holster protruding. He said nothing about it and we focused on the calf. Now, he was a relaxed country man in his fifties and did not feel threatened by me (more amused by my lousy roping skills) and came to learn I was a local from just across the border (NM).

The point of all this is the circumstances and common sense should dictate how you handle the situation.

 

[MechAg94]

It is mandatory in Texas. I don't mind since I would do so anyway. Most every officer I have been in contact with understands that CHL holders were part of the vast majority of people who are normal law abiding citizens.


If I remember correctly, there were a few jurisdictions that tried to create problems and harass a few CHL holders early on. Thankfully, the courts and the State Department of Public Safety told them to pound sand. The Texas state legislature takes a dim view of local jurisdictions trying to mess with their laws. I guess they are a bit protective since they are only in session every other year.

 

[Oohrah]

Nope, It is entered into the DMV, so the LEO that stops you has
that information before he opens his car door. :banghead:

 

[Lew]

You should not have to inform at all. Nor should you even need a permit but that is another matter altogether.

Guess I came here to say this. In addition, driving infractions have nothing to do with firearms.

Liberty>Safety

 

[Surefire]

I wish I was lucky enough to have the option.

Liberal controlled county in California... only the "elite" such as corrupt politicians are allowed to carry here.

Having said this, if I ever move to a "free" state, I would show the CCL along with DL.

I would consider it a matter of professional courtesy.

 

[VARifleman]

Cases where you would get punished for not giving that info if it was mandatory:

If you're an upstanding individual carrying legally without intent to commit a crime.

Cases where you couldn't get punished for not giving that info because of the 5th amendment:

Anytime you are carrying/possesing illegally, in commision of a crime, intent on doing a crime, etc.

There's just no reason to require it because all you're punishing is forgetful good people.

 

[atek3]

No. I would however recommend giving your permit with your driver's license if you get pulled over. It sends a signal to the informed cop that "hey, i'm probably not a felon or a crackhead", then again in a big city, the unformed cop might say, "holy *bland*, this nutjob has a gun", so be careful.

atek3

 

[Standing Wolf]

Unless I've committed a crime, my guns are nobody's business but mine.

 

[k_dawg]

How does informing the LEO protect him? That you would notify him, already proves that you are not a threat to him.

It serves to protect YOU, as if the LEO see's the butt of your firearm while you dig out your wallet; he'll most definately pull his gun and draw you down.

My rule: If you are asked to step out of the vehicle, I notify first. Until that time, I'm mum on the issue.

 

[doc2rn]

My experience

I got pulled over for passing a guy who signalled a turn started a turn but didn't. I started to pass him in a passing zone, and he gunned it. LEO behind me pulls us both over. I explain to the officer what he did, officer says yep that is what I saw too (hands me back both ID and CCW) whips out his citation book and writes the other guy 4 tickets. I cant say for sure if he just wanted to check me out, but the fact that I showed him both of my ID and told him upfront where my carry was alieviated the tension between us. I was happy to be compliant and sent on my way.

 

[XavierBreath]

The duty to inform protects the CCW holder as well as the officer.

If the officer making the stop, or officially questioning the CCW holder were to see the firearm and believe the carrier was making a move towards it, the officer would at that time be facing a perceived lethal threat. He has a split second to make a response that will save or risk his life. His response, rightly or wrongly, would likely be to draw and quite possibly fire on the CCW holder. In an era where suspects get shot for holding cell phones it only makes sense to inform the officer of your firearm, to protect yourself. Call it an uncalled for response if you like, but if you watch enough dash video of cops being gunned down, you understand why they approach an unknown traffic stop expecting anything.

Each situation is different, but in states where the duty to inform exists, it protects the citizen against a wrongful response, and it also protects the officer from making a wrong response as well. The CCW holder does not want to be shot and the officer does not want to shoot a law abiding citizen in error.

FWIW, I live in a state where it is my duty to inform, I have always informed, and I have always been treated with courtesy.

 

[Jamesmb]

Should not be mandatory

 

[TAB]

yes, I think it should, but it should also come up when they run your plates/dl.

 

[Jaenak]

I don't really side with either camp. I don't think we should have to do it because I don't really see the point. However, I tend to do it just to be nice. I fasten my concealed carry permit to the back of my driver's license so when I give my license to the cop the permit is right on the back so then he knows. I don't really see the point in informing them but I do just because I choose to.

When I lived in Washington state I figured out those cops were hard core rednecks. Those guys were out for blood in that state. They also couldn't do anything without holding each other's hand. When one car pulled someone over, two more cars would come over for moral support, not because they were needed. In that state, if you informed the police officer that you were carrying, you'd have the whole county over to watch you get a speeding ticket.

All in all I think passing a law requiring you to tell the cop is a bad idea.

 

[Eightball]

I haven't gotten my CCW yet (working on that one....), but am curious--where can you find a list of states it is required to tell the officer you are carrying (I'm in KY some of the time, MI part time, requires travelling through IN)? And, do you have to abide by CCW rules of *your* state law, or the law of the state you happen to be in (if it's one of the "mandatory"s) if you get stopped?

And, not to hijack, but where does one put a CCW permit? In the wallet? In those little "picture" flaps? Behind the DL? Separate pouch? (or does this all get explained in the class....?)

 

[Winchester 73]

I haven't gotten my CCW yet (working on that one....), but am curious--where can you find a list of states it is required to tell the officer you are carrying

Eightball See:

Quote:
here in michigan, ANY TIME you aproach, or are aproched by a LEO (for any reason), you MUST inform him / her IF you are carrying and show your permit. Unquote.

Michigan is in the large minority.
Of the 50 states all but 2,Illinois and Wisconsin allow concealed carry.
39 states are shall issue.
9 are may issue.Of course it is almost impossible in several of these may issue states such as Hawaii,Maryland and NJ to acquire a permit.Nevertheless:
Of these 48 states ,only 10 require a CHP holder to tell the LEO that you are carrying with a permit upon a traffic stop.Its a felony if you lie in many of these 10 states.
The states are:
1.Alaska
2.Louisiana
3.Michigan
4.North Carolina
5.Ohio
6.Oklahoma
7.South Carolina
8.Texas
9.Utah
10.Nebraska

Source:
http://www.handgunlaw.us

 

[Eightball]

ANY TIME you aproach, or are aproched by a LEO (for any reason), you MUST inform him / her IF you are carrying and show your permit.

So, if you're walking down the street, in *insert fast food joint*, etc, you must stop them and inform them, or does the above only apply to traffic stops?

Sorry for my complete ignorance.

 

[Winchester 73]

So, if you're walking down the street, in *insert fast food joint*, etc, you must stop them and inform them, or does the above only apply to traffic stops?

Eightball there is no such thing,IMO,as a dumb question.
In this context we are only talking about traffic stops.

 

[Zoogster]

So, if you're walking down the street, in *insert fast food joint*, etc, you must stop them and inform them, or does the above only apply to traffic stops?

Usualy it is for any law enforcement contact. You don't have to tell them in passing, but if for some reason they talk to you then you do.

I think it is foolishness because it often turns something that would have been very minor or casual into something more official.

If you are stopped for example over something that would have taken 30 seconds of your life, adding additional details to something routine is silly.

There is times when it is important to inform them, like if it is not really well concealed, or they are going to frisk you, they are investigating something that is not minor etc However if you are having a brief 20 seconds of communication, and would have then have both continued on your seperate ways, informing them about a weapon they do not see just adds an extra dimension.
Should you also have to inform them if you have a non stock engine that would make your vehicle of higher performance than what is appearant? I mean that could reduce the chance of such a person getting away in a pursuit
That makes about as much sense as expecting such a law to add any level of safety for a LEO.

Imagine being a cop, and in a routine field investigation ask someone passing by a question to see if they possibly saw something suspicious, and think they might have witnessed it. You stop them and one of the first things you learn is they are armed. Someone you didn't even think twice about and were merely getting some information from before moving on has suddenly become centered in your mind.
What purpose did that just serve?

Informing them at your discretion can be a smart move in some situations, and be unnecessary in others simply adding unnecessary dimensions to what should be routine.

For that reason "mandatory" is a bad idea.

 

[chris in va]

I do it anyway. Have no problem notifying the LEO I'm carrying. The last two stops I gave him my license and CC card, he just handed it back to me with the comment, "I don't need that".

I was driving another car at the time so it couldn't have shown up on his database I have a permit.

 

[jenrob]

In Oregon it only comes up when they run your DL and then around here it depends on which dispatcher is on if they tell the LEO. Other than that you do not have to inform them.

One officer's thought I don't want to know. If you have a gun legally keep it to yourself. Don't throw fuel on the fire. he stays pretty calm during traffic stops and doesn't need to know there is a fire arm around.

Another one I want to know just for the fact if you inform me that you are legal to carry and have shown me your CCW then you are not a threat. You are a person that's trys to do things as legal as possible and that put some ease to the situation.

Now I have been stopp and the only time I disclosed was cause the one firearm was in the glove box with the insurance and reg. and another on my side IWB. If it had just been the IWB I wouldf have said nothing about it but sense I had to open the glove box and knew that a 357 was going to be the first thing he saw my wife was already reaching over me with her CCW and said there is a gun in the glove box about the same time after I had already pulled out my wallet from the side the gun was on with my wrist resting on the steering wheel while I pulled out mine and informed him of the one on my side. I then asked him if he would like me to step out, Hand him the firearms, or what and he said nope just need your insurance and reg. Thanks for letting me know.

 

[joffe]

Even though it's not the most problematic or severe law, it's a violation of individual rights and privacy. It's anyone's natural right to carry, and it's noone's business if you do or not as long as you're not doing anyone any harm.

It's the principle.

 

[Conqueror]

I'm in NC, and I do not object to our requirement to inform LEOs. Most LEOs are good guys, doing their best to help protect me and my loved ones and my property. If knowing where my gun is while they interact with me will make them feel a little safer, I consider it a fair trade. Very rarely do LEOs really care - most of them support CCW and when you tell them you're carrying, they say "OK."

 

[Winchester 73]

Thank you all for the many and varied responses.This is obviously a controversial topic.
Someday in the future with your indulgence ,I would like to re-submit the question with a yes or no poll attached ,to get a more definitive idea of where most of THR members feelings reside on the issue.
My poll attempt yesterday was aborted because of unawareness of a 20 minute time limit.Another learning experience.
Thank you again for taking the time to respond.

 

[beachjumper]

I'm against mandatory notification but common sense should apply; might mean the difference between a warning and a ticket if you think the situation calls for notification.
What is the penalty for not complying with the law in states that require notification?