Hesa Hard1
member
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2021
- Messages
- 123
@Space Ghost would love to take a tour of your gun safe, you sir have great tastes on how to bring these old warhorses into the 21st century while maintaining their historical functions.
It's not a Scout rifle, but the Ruger Hawkeye Compact in stainless steel with a laminate stock is a gun I would certainly buy (in .308 Win) if it were available left handed. I'd throw a compact 2-7x on it and be a happy camper. It'd be nicer with an 18" barrel vs the 16.5" but nothing's perfect.
Some interesting reading about the Cooper Scout and other thoughts, published in 2021 below. Some parts may be more interesting than others, depending on ones view of the topic.
Part 1 of 6
https://empty-cases.com/blog/analysis-of-the-scout-rifle-part-1/
I don't see why not. I think the Scout Rifle concept has grown and "diversified" and I don't think the ghost of Cooper would insist that it be held strictly to the standard or parameters, guidelines or "rules" set forth in the original definition.
Possibly in Cooper's day it wasn't as acceptable to envision or prepare (or really discuss) for society going south in the mainstream, so perhaps the concept of scouting had to be "mainstreamed" a bit. I think that now, "scouting" is probably seen in more of a military, or guerilla warfare sense. ? I would guess that a majority of us can conceive of things really going bad, whereas not too many years ago it was more like: "it can't happen here". Gangs of looters? People trying to raid your ranch, farm, or house out in the boonies? IMPOSSIBLE!!!!
What I'm getting at is that now we tailor our "Scout Rifles" more towards our own conception of what scouting is, and not so much a strict definitions of what a "Scout Rifle", the rifle it's self must be. So yeah, if the ACOG works for you, it would certainly have a place on your rifle. !! What are one's own requirements? Really anything can be used for scouting...maybe we should make distinctions between General Purpose Rifles, and "Cooper Scout Rifles".
My own idea of scouting, if things really went/go bad won't be the same as others. I live in a rural area, and would want to keep tabs on what's going on within a mile radius or two, so the traditional or "Cooper Scout" rifle would fill the bill with me, along with about every other rifle posted on this thread, including my 7.7 "Ugly Scout". We have Moose, Elk, and deer around here, but I suspect they'd all be eaten or driven out within a couple of weeks of insanity. Once the big game is gone, the ".22 Scouts" make sense. And that is a long way away from Cooper's thoughts.
If one lives in the city or 'burbs, perhaps a scout rifle would make no sense, no matter what kind of glass it had on it. !
Anyhow, ACOG, why not? Maybe today, it would be Cooper's first choice.
Okay. Now I get it. Sometimes I'm slower than a bullet out of a Mle1892 Lebel Revolver.
Yep. Substitute the word "scout" with the word "survival" and the concept makes far more sense. Even in this modern world of home built ARs. But THR doesn't do SHTF content. That's fine, but it limits discussion on this type of rifle setup.
One further observation: while the Scout Rifle was supposed to incorporate a short list of characteristics, I think its one immutable core principal is light weight. If you discard that part of the concept, you loose the sort of 'magic wand' pointability that Cooper had in mind. The WWSD guys have rediscovered this same effect in a different platform.
One further observation: while the Scout Rifle was supposed to incorporate a short list of characteristics, I think its one immutable core principal is light weight.
Yep. But Cooper also acknowledged that, to some extent, light weight is user dependent. Hence his test of grasping the rifle by the wrist, oriented vertically, arm extended at shoulder height, hold for 60 second. If you can't do it, your gun is too heavy.
I think what a lot of folks miss in these SR discussions and debates is that Cooper was more of a popularizer than an originalist, so it matters knowing from where, and from whom, he sourced his foundational ideas.I don't see why not. I think the Scout Rifle concept has grown and "diversified" and I don't think the ghost of Cooper would insist that it be held strictly to the standard or parameters, guidelines or "rules" set forth in the original definition.
Possibly in Cooper's day it wasn't as acceptable to envision or prepare (or really discuss) for society going south in the mainstream, so perhaps the concept of scouting had to be "mainstreamed" a bit. I think that now, "scouting" is probably seen in more of a military, or guerilla warfare sense. ? I would guess that a majority of us can conceive of things really going bad, whereas not too many years ago it was more like: "it can't happen here". Gangs of looters? People trying to raid your ranch, farm, or house out in the boonies? IMPOSSIBLE!!!!
What I'm getting at is that now we tailor our "Scout Rifles" more towards our own conception of what scouting is, and not so much a strict definitions of what a "Scout Rifle", the rifle it's self must be. So yeah, if the ACOG works for you, it would certainly have a place on your rifle. !! What are one's own requirements? Really anything can be used for scouting...maybe we should make distinctions between General Purpose Rifles, and "Cooper Scout Rifles".
My own idea of scouting, if things really went/go bad won't be the same as others. I live in a rural area, and would want to keep tabs on what's going on within a mile radius or two, so the traditional or "Cooper Scout" rifle would fill the bill with me, along with about every other rifle posted on this thread, including my 7.7 "Ugly Scout". We have Moose, Elk, and deer around here, but I suspect they'd all be eaten or driven out within a couple of weeks of insanity. Once the big game is gone, the ".22 Scouts" make sense. And that is a long way away from Cooper's thoughts.
If one lives in the city or 'burbs, perhaps a scout rifle would make no sense, no matter what kind of glass it had on it. !
Anyhow, ACOG, why not? Maybe today, it would be Cooper's first choice.
View attachment 1036601 Not sure if it fits the letter of the law for a "scout" rifle but it fits me well, and it shoots very well.
My 1916 Spanish mauser in 308, Gets fed a diet of light handloads, one day of like to take it hunting. It carries well, ballances well, has enough hurting horsepower for any reasonably purpose, isn't abusive to shoot and the fixed 4x scope is plenty for me. It's about the perfect rig for my tastes.
. . .
Outside of the hunting context (my usage), or fun hours spent plinking at the range, or possibly as a general purpose weapon for those living in rural or remote areas (e.g., the Alaskan boonies), Cooper's notional theory of a light-weight, bolt-action SR running a forward mounted low-power optic, simply has no present relevance to the weapons and equipment suitable for a modern military 'scout.'
View attachment 1036601 Not sure if it fits the letter of the law for a "scout" rifle but it fits me well, and it shoots very well.
My 1916 Spanish mauser in 308, Gets fed a diet of light handloads, one day of like to take it hunting. It carries well, ballances well, has enough hurting horsepower for any reasonably purpose, isn't abusive to shoot and the fixed 4x scope is plenty for me. It's about the perfect rig for my tastes.
Yep. But Cooper also acknowledged that, to some extent, light weight is user dependent. Hence his test of grasping the rifle by the wrist, oriented vertically, arm extended at shoulder height, hold for 60 second. If you can't do it, your gun is too heavy.
Not a bad test, and of course, a valid rule of thumb for rifle weight might be what % the rifle is of one's body weight, rather than a one size-fits-all "rule" based solely on rifle weight alone. My Ugly Scout comes in at 7.3 pounds, but feels like a six-pound rifle. !!
But, again, I think that keeping the rifle weight reasonable allows one to carry other things that are important. Total weight of one's gear will determine when fatigue sets in, and everyone has their limit. And when fatigue sets in, concentration and awareness start to set out. Weight is important. Lack of food and water will increase fatigue. Trying to sleep under some bush without that poncho and woobie will increase fatigue. !! But again and again, that all depends on one's personal vision of the future.