BluesBear
member
100% conjecture. No evidence to support the claim.
The internal extractor as Browning designed it works marvelously. It took over 50 years for substandard manfacturing techniques to finally mess it up.
SIG GSR 1911 pics
- Thread starter Dorian
- Start date
- Status
The internal extractor as Browning designed it works marvelously. It took over 50 years for substandard manfacturing techniques to finally mess it up.
Sean Smith
Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2002
- Messages
- 4,925
As a side note, many of Sig's other handguns have internal extractors too. Seems that they don't think they are obsolete, either... except for 1911s? Wierd.
My comment on" JMB PROBABLY going to an external extractor by now" was not an indictment on the internal, they work. Simply, after reading his biography, he was as much a business man as an inventor.
I think, pure conjecture, he would have made changes to designs, if needed, given current manufacturing techniques and costs. If producers can't/won't make the proper part and fit it, I think he would have reconized the potential consumer problem and reacted...and I'd guess before it became a problem.
I have only internals on my 1911's.
I think, pure conjecture, he would have made changes to designs, if needed, given current manufacturing techniques and costs. If producers can't/won't make the proper part and fit it, I think he would have reconized the potential consumer problem and reacted...and I'd guess before it became a problem.
I have only internals on my 1911's.
BHPshooter
Member
I believe it's the pivot pin for the extractor. That's how the Hi Powers with external extractors look, so I assume it's the same.
WHAT ARE THOSE GRIPS? Those look really cool... I bet they feel the same way! Other than the grips, though, and I'll take a Colt 1991, thank you.
Wes
Sean Smith
Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2002
- Messages
- 4,925
The original BHP had an internal extractor. The external version was added by FN long after Browning died.
45R
Member
I spoke to Sig Arms Custom shop today. They stated that it was a lock to make the gun Mass compliant
BerettaNut92
Member
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2002
- Messages
- 9,723
Slick!
Are they gonna make one with an aluminum frame?
Are they gonna make one with an aluminum frame?
WonderNine
member
One of the main reasons I haven't bought a 1911 as of yet is because of the internal extractors. Also this gun is supposed to lack any MIM parts. Regardless of whether or not the internals work, I just dont like them. I can definately see myself buying one of these Sigs.
I would change out the trigger for a shorter or WWI style, change out the beavertail for a regular grip safety (probably WWI style if possible) and replace the grip screws with slotted ones.
Sean Smith
Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2002
- Messages
- 4,925
So you want an external extractor gun that is otherwise GI-looking?
Um, why? What else is it supposed to do but "work," mow your lawn?
Um, why? What else is it supposed to do but "work," mow your lawn?
WonderNine
member
Yes. But it's not the look for me as much as the functionality. 1911's fit me best in a GI type configuration.
And external extractors "work better" and are longer lasting IMO.
Never liked the idea of having to tune an extractor as needs to be done with some.
BluesBear
member
But if you had a true 100% Mil-Spec 1911 it wouldn't need the extractor tuned because it would be made of spring steel as designed.
If it doesn't have a spring steel extractor it can never be 100% Mil-Spec.
Now having said that I have had quite a few Commercial Colts that didn't have a spring steel extractor that ran 100% out of the box.
Drop your 1911s in the mud. Real world, battlefield mud. Pick them up, shake them real good and wipe them off with your hand. After the mud dries see which extractor works best. Will it be the internal one where the mud didn't reach? Or will it bee the external one with the mud caking all around it?
As for the High Power extractor being changed to external "long after" Browning died...
The P35 wasn't produced in ANY form until long after Browning had died.
(To me being dead for 9 years constitutes "long after".)
And as for externals being longer lasting...
That depends on how they were designed, who made them and how they made them.
IME, I have seen a lot more broken external ones than internal ones.
If it doesn't have a spring steel extractor it can never be 100% Mil-Spec.
Now having said that I have had quite a few Commercial Colts that didn't have a spring steel extractor that ran 100% out of the box.
Drop your 1911s in the mud. Real world, battlefield mud. Pick them up, shake them real good and wipe them off with your hand. After the mud dries see which extractor works best. Will it be the internal one where the mud didn't reach? Or will it bee the external one with the mud caking all around it?
As for the High Power extractor being changed to external "long after" Browning died...
The P35 wasn't produced in ANY form until long after Browning had died.
(To me being dead for 9 years constitutes "long after".)
And as for externals being longer lasting...
That depends on how they were designed, who made them and how they made them.
IME, I have seen a lot more broken external ones than internal ones.
Sean Smith
Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2002
- Messages
- 4,925
Based on your background in weapons engineering, no doubt.
You could always have an AFTEC extractor installed, it is an internal extractor but works on the same principle as most of the external extractor designs (rigid extractor arm with coil springs for tension, instead of the extractor being a single spring that needs to be tuned). It just fits inside the gun.
WonderNine
member
Based on your background in weapons engineering, no doubt.
Hehe.
What I "meant" to say was that I never hear about external extractors breaking. And the guns I like to shoot (BHP's, Beretta 92's, ect.) all have external extractors which have never given me any problems. Just going by 1911 talk I always hear on the gunboards regarding extractor problems on the 1911's they make nowadays.
Thanks for the tip about the AFTEC extractor.
MoNsTeR
Member
Why does EVERY thread about a 1911 with an external extractor turn into an extractor argument? Can't we do something productive like argue about the key lock?
BTW, putting a GI grip safety on a gun with grip tangs radiused for a beavertail would be quite uncomfortable, not to mention hideous-looking.
BTW, putting a GI grip safety on a gun with grip tangs radiused for a beavertail would be quite uncomfortable, not to mention hideous-looking.
Sean Smith
Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2002
- Messages
- 4,925
Well, don't thank me. Pretty soon a traditional internal 1911 extractor fan is going to tell you they are more trouble than they are worth.
I've only used them in guns running high-pressure cartridges (10mm).
WonderNine
member
Well sounds like I'd have to go custom then and have a gunsmith grind the beavertail down to flush with the frame and then refinish the part.......
IN HOT PINK!
BluesBear
member
Back before there were beavertail safeties (the dark ages) we used to fit GI long style grip safeties on Commanders.
The tang was shorter on the Commander. I never heard of anyone complaining about any pain from the longer safety.
Of course there is the possibility that a standard fitted upswept beavertail that is so "in" with the new fad crowd might just fit. If not it won't take the major rebuilders long to come up with an aftermarket drop in grip safety that eliminates that pointy memory wedge.
The tang was shorter on the Commander. I never heard of anyone complaining about any pain from the longer safety.
Of course there is the possibility that a standard fitted upswept beavertail that is so "in" with the new fad crowd might just fit. If not it won't take the major rebuilders long to come up with an aftermarket drop in grip safety that eliminates that pointy memory wedge.
WonderNine
member
I'm not as concerned with the pointy memory wedge as I am with the point sticking straight back at me. I hate them! And they look so ooogly. I think it would look cute with a BHP butt.
WonderNine
member
I don't have meaty hands so I never get hammerbite from any guns. The "beavertails as standard equipment from factory for now on" phenom is more annoying to me than most other things in the gun world. I can't stand the looks and the beavertail gets in my way when handling them. I do love alot of things about 1911's so that's why I bitch about ghey beavertails whenever possible.
Sean Smith
Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2002
- Messages
- 4,925
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, don't thank me. Pretty soon a traditional internal 1911 extractor fan is going to tell you they are more trouble than they are worth.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Based on your extensive background in weapons engineering no doubt.
More like my extensive experience watching 1911tuner post on this forum on how he doesn't like AFTECs, tough guy.
I had AFTEC extractors recommended to me by a pistolsmith after seeing the hook shear clean off the conventional Colt extractor in my old Delta Elite. Since I've gotten several thousand rounds out of AFTECs in 10mm guns, I'm pretty happy with the choice. A friend of mine had the exact same experience: conventional extractor in 10mm SV (!) broke, replaced with AFTEC, followed by thousands of rounds with no problems.
Neither one of us ever saw problems with conventional extractors in our .45 ACP guns, and both of us saw conventional extractors in 10mm guns break. *Shrug*
- Status
