SIG Magazine Quandry

[SwampWolf]

A while back, I sold a SIG Model 220 and replaced it with the Model 227. I liked the idea of getting a couple of extra rounds and I especially liked the little bit of extra girth on the grip that better accommodated my XL mitts. I really like the gun, it's accurate and reliable just like my Model 220 was. But here's the problem. I can get the maximum tenth round into one magazine with some effort but, try as I might, I cannot get a tenth round into the other one. Pushing it in with all of my might only gets it about a third of the way in and it seems to reach a "wall" and have no "play" left. I'm afraid that a magazine loader (I've never owned one and, up 'til now, never needed one) might cause damage to the spring, the follower or the lips.
Any thoughts or advice? Thanks.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Pop the baseplate off and swap the follower first, then- if the problem persists- the spring from the other magazine. Note carefully the spring orientation- it may simply be installed upside down.

This will tell you which component is causing the problem. Then inspect the offending part for wear, cracks, burrs, etc.

 

[WrongHanded]

Gotta love how magazines are advertised to hold X number of rounds .... but in some cases just barely, and then it won't fit in the gun with the slide forward.

I wish I could help, but my experience with such situations is just to load one less round and live with it easy and reliable.

 

[9mmepiphany]

My first thought was to try loading it with a Uplula loader...been using one for years and my thumbs are thankful.

Switching parts, one at a time, as suggested above, would surely indicate which component is limiting your round insertion. I'm assuming that you've tried to load different tenth rounds as opposed to trying to load the same one several times.

If this is a new pistol, I'd contact SIG C/S and see if they'll swap magazine with you

 

[Alllen Bundy]

Gotta love how magazines are advertised to hold X number of rounds .... but in some cases just barely, and then it won't fit in the gun with the slide forward..

People were complaining that it was more difficult to load the P365 12 rd magazine than the P365XL magazine. This would seem strange because it's basically the same magazine. However, it turns out that the floorplate of the P365 12 rd magazine causes the spring retainer plate to sit 0.042" higher on the floorplate than in the P365XL magazine.

It's also interesting to note that it's easier to load 14 rounds into a P365XL 12 rd magazine with a MagGuts spring kit than it is to load 12 rds into the stock Sig 12 rd magazine.

I'm afraid that a magazine loader ......... might cause damage to the spring, the follower or the lips..

I can't speak specifically to the P227 magazines, but I've been doing some accelerated life testing on the Sig P365XL magazine springs. The spring cycling that I was doing was intentionally downright abusive as a worst case condition and it didn't cause any problems to the magazine. I wouldn't worry too much about using a magazine loader.

I also heard a claim that a Makershot loader for a P365/X/XL/SAS could cause bullet setback. I tested 5 different bands of ammo and NONE of them experienced any bullet setback after 20 loadings into the cartridge as the last round. The most susceptible to bullet setback was the 9mm 115 gr Remington Range ammo. I loaded one of those cartridges with a a Makershot loader over 60 times without any setback. FYI, this testing was performed with a NEW magazine spring.

But before trying to cram your magazine to capacity, do take the previous advice to disassemble your magazines and make sure that everything is okay inside. Make sure that there isn't any flashing left on plastic parts that could prevent the spring retainer plate from sitting properly on the floor plate. Make sure that the button on the spring retainer plate fits through the hole in the floor plate without any difficulty.

FYI, the 10 rd magazine marked .45 are different inside from the magazines marked .45ACP

 

[SwampWolf]

Thanks for all of the suggestions and helpful advice. Both magazines (the one that holds 10 rounds and the one that doesn't) came with the gun purchased new. As NIGHTLORD40K recommended, I took the "bad" magazine apart and examined the components and found no obvious defects or abnormalities. I then disassembled the "good" magazine and compared the two-they look identical in every respect. I'm guessing there might be a difference in the spring rates but they "appear" to be the same.

It's really not a big deal except for the fact that the biggest reason I traded "up" from the Model 220 was to garner a couple of extra rounds in capacity (and, as mentioned, a lesser reason being that the slightly wider grip of the Model 227 fits my hand a little better). I take some consolation in the fact that even the "bad" magazine holds one more round than the 220 did.

WrongHanded expressed sympathy for my dilemma but conceded, "...with such situations just load one less round and live with it being easy and reliable." Sounds like a plan.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I took the "bad" magazine apart and examined the components and found no obvious defects or abnormalities. I then disassembled the "good" magazine and compared the two-they look identical in every respect.

Did you try switching in parts from the good magazine into the bad one, one at a time, to determine which part was causing your issues?

 

[Jim Watson]

They don't make the P227 any more. I suggest getting some extra magazines while they last.

I would not try to force in that tenth round no matter what the catalog says. Mark your present magazines so you know which is which.

 

[Mr. Hill]

Load it with 9 and let it sit for a month. Then try adding the tenth.

 

[SwampWolf]

It's been sitting for a week stuffed with nine rounds (I did take it apart yesterday so I guess I'll have to start over). I'm too old to be patient.

 

[Jim Watson]

Interesting how magazine springs work two ways.
Expert 1 says it does not hurt to leave a magazine loaded, it is the up and down that wears on the spring.
Expert 2 says if you leave a stiff magazine loaded for a while it "conditions" (weakens) the spring.
I guess it just does what you need it to.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Interesting how magazine springs work two ways.
Expert 1 says it does not hurt to leave a magazine loaded, it is the up and down that wears on the spring.
Expert 2 says if you leave a stiff magazine loaded for a while it "conditions" (weakens) the spring.
I guess it just does what you need it to.

I thought they were like automotive springs in that you loaded them so they would take their initial set and from that point it was the compression and expansion that caused them to weaken

 

[Jim Watson]

So why do competitors frantically unload their magazines after the last stage?
By that logic they could leave them loaded til next week and save a cycle.
I think it is more complex than the internet says.

 

[9mmepiphany]

So why do competitors frantically unload their magazines after the last stage?
By that logic they could leave them loaded til next week and save a cycle.

I don't know why they do it, but I do it the clean all the dust, sand, and grit...from being dropped during mag changes...out of the bodies

 

[Alllen Bundy]

Interesting how magazine springs work two ways.
Expert 1 says it does not hurt to leave a magazine loaded, it is the up and down that wears on the spring.
Expert 2 says if you leave a stiff magazine loaded for a while it "conditions" (weakens) the spring.
I guess it just does what you need it to.

My actual testing of Sig USA made Magazine and MagGuts magazine springs for the P365/X/XL/SAS shows that:

The very first time that you compress a magazine spring it's uncompressed length WILL become shorter and it's spring strength begins to weaken, and the greatest amount of change will occur.

The harder that you compress the spring the more reduction in spring length and spring strength will occur.

Letting a magazine spring set in a compressed state for an extended period will reduce it's spring force somewhat.

Cycling the magazine spring will reduce it's spring force much faster than letting the spring remain compressed in a magazine.

There is considerable variation in the strength between new Sig P365/X/XL/SAS magazine springs.

 

[JohnKSa]

The very first time that you compress a magazine spring it's uncompressed length WILL become shorter and it's spring strength begins to weaken, and the greatest amount of change will occur.

The harder that you compress the spring the more reduction in spring length and spring strength will occur.

Letting a magazine spring set in a compressed state for an extended period will reduce it's spring force somewhat.

I did some testing with a number of identical magazines over more than a year and that is what I found. I actually have a set still loaded up that I need to pull out and test for the final installment of measurements.

Compressing a spring and leaving it compressed causes it to lose strength/length.

The longer it is left compressed, the more length/strength it loses. It initially loses strength/length fairly rapidly. Although the rate of loss decreased over time I didn't run the test long enough to reach a point where there was no more measurable loss of strength/length.

The more deeply it is compressed, the more length/strength it loses. The mags I underloaded by 2 rounds lost measurably less strength/length than the ones that were fully loaded even though both were compressed the same amount of time.

None of the mags I tested lost enough strength during the test to cause any function issues.

 

[Mainsail]

I had a similar issue with some other Sig- I forget now which one it was.

For me it was the mag spring was in backwards - backwards, not upside-down, backwards.

Try this: take your good mag and disassemble it noting which way the spring coils slant. Leave it on the bench just outside the mag- like an exploded diagram.
Then do the same for the deficient mag- does everything look the same? If not- make the deficient mag match the good one and reassemble. Now try to load 10 rounds.

 

[JDR]

https://www.ammoland.com/2021/04/surplus-sig-sauer-p227-45acp-magazines/

You bought a discontinued Sig pistol with just 2 OEM magazines, one of which won’t load 10. I got my Sig P6 over 10 years ago with 3 good OEM magazines and I now have 7. I bought the additional mags every time I came across decent OEM P225/P6 mags at a reasonable price, which is really hard to do these days.

You should get at least 2 extra good OEM magazines for your discontinued Sig, new P227 10 round mags are over $40 online, and these are just going to become harder to get over time. I’ve linked a deal above for 6 surplus 10rd. mags @$19.95 each, so if you can load 10 in 4 or 5 of these and they function properly in the gun you’re still ahead of the game.

We could probably start a flame war here with how poorly this company supports it’s discontinued pistols with spare parts, but that’s a whole other story.

 

[SwampWolf]

Thanks for the link, JDR. When I bought my Model 227 (2014) it had not been discontinued. Shortly after buying the pistol, I bought a SIG extended magazine (which accepts all 14 rounds and functions perfectly) and another factory mag (which accepts all ten rounds). You can never have too many magazines!