Sig P365 - Force Required to Manually Chamber: Polished Extractor vs Unpolished

[Alllen Bundy]

Other pistols are designed different. Some can break. I have broke one my self.

What specifically broke? And extractor? Did it break while manually chambering a round?

.....I have seen zero set back. They get chambered 2-3 times a week to.

How do you know? Were you actually measuring the overall length of your cartridges?

The potential for setback depends upon your pistol design and the brand of ammunition that you use. The chance of setback with Speer Gold Dot or Sig Elite Performance JHP is going to be very small. Their bullets are very well secured into their shell case. 20 chamberings from the magazine and I measured 1/2 of a thousandth of an inch of setback, and that could have been thermal drift of my electronic caliper. Remington Range FMJ begin to setback at the 3rd chambering. MagTech 9A FMJ set FORWARD after 12 chamberings. I got that much variation from testing only 5 different brands. Your mileage may vary.

I prefer to eliminate the potential for setback to occur in the first place.

 

[JDGray]

Consistent process control is how you improve quality and avoid mistakes. You have two different ways that you release the slide after inserting a magazine. That is a potential for problems.

The only time I ride the slide, is when I’m done shooting, and loading up my SD ammo. It might set in a drawer for a while, or go in my pocket for a long time before the next time I go shoot. No way are there any mistakes going to develop doing this. You asked what torture test I run on my guns, none! A gun is a tool, and being a mechanic for the last 37 years, I take care of my tools. I wouldn’t dream of doing a torture test on one of my torque wrenches. Load it up full of sand and mud, than go torque a set of rings on my rifle… Nope!

 

[Alllen Bundy]

A gun is a tool, and being a mechanic for the last 37 years, I take care of my tools. I wouldn’t dream of doing a torture test on one of my torque wrenches. Load it up full of sand and mud, than go torque a set of rings on my rifle… Nope!

I want to make sure that a tool will do the job under any adverse conditions that it is likely to occur. I use tools on devices such as firearms. I modify tools to get the job done. My tools have undergone torture testing by using them. Over the years I have discovered which brands of tools hold up and which ones don't.

I modify brand new devices so that they will survive. You can consider an air cooled VW Beetle to be a tool to move you from place to place. But if you drive a bone stock VW Beetle hard, the flywheel will fall off unless you add 4 additional dowel pins to the crankshaft, replace the wavy washer under the gland nut with a larger solid washer, and preferably also use a stronger gland nut and double the torque to the gland nut, and also use Loctite on the threads. And that is what is required to make a bone stock engine reliable.

The bearings in my bicycle pedals won't hold up in Minnesota winters because of the petroleum grease that fails to lubricate in subzero weather. The seals fail and allow the ingress of grit from the sanding they do to the roads. I remove the bearing covers, clean and use synthetic grease and reassemble. The pedal bearings no longer fail.

You can operate on pure faith if you want to. I prefer to do some testing.

 

[JDGray]

I want to make sure that a tool will do the job under any adverse conditions that it is likely to occur. I use tools on devices such as firearms. I modify tools to get the job done. My tools have undergone torture testing by using them. Over the years I have discovered which brands of tools hold up and which ones don't.

I modify brand new devices so that they will survive. You can consider an air cooled VW Beetle to be a tool to move you from place to place. But if you drive a bone stock VW Beetle hard, the flywheel will fall off unless you add 4 additional dowel pins to the crankshaft, replace the wavy washer under the gland nut with a larger solid washer, and preferably also use a stronger gland nut and double the torque to the gland nut, and also use Loctite on the threads. And that is what is required to make a bone stock engine reliable.

The bearings in my bicycle pedals won't hold up in Minnesota winters because of the petroleum grease that fails to lubricate in subzero weather. The seals fail and allow the ingress of grit from the sanding they do to the roads. I remove the bearing covers, clean and use synthetic grease and reassemble. The pedal bearings no longer fail.

You can operate on pure faith if you want to. I prefer to do some testing.

I can’t remember the last time I had a malfunction on one of my current handguns. I had a Kimber that locked back with rounds in the mag, so I sent it back, then confirmed it was fixed, than sold it. I carried it for a year with a modified slide stop, so the slide couldn’t lock back, but that’s about it for guns that have malfunctioned on me. Must be the clean living! Lol. I keep my guns clean, and they reward me by working as they should, giving me false hope.

 

[JohnKSa]

Sorry, but I'm not going to assume that they have done all of the necessary testing...

In other words, you are going to assume that they did not.

If it's safe to manually chamber a Beretta 92, why would you assume that it's not safe to manually chamber other pistols with pivoting extractors?

First of all, it's perfectly safe to "manually chamber" a round in any autopistol I know of. What you're talking about is direct chamber loading.

You already know the answer. Beretta says it's safe in their guns while other manufacturers (SIG in specific) say it's not safe in their guns. I'll tell you what. Email Beretta and ask them to tell you about their testing that they did to determine it's safe. If they don't answer you, then you will have to assume they didn't test it and can't really say it's safe. That's the same approach you used for SIG so it must be right. I'm not sure what you'll do at that point--I guess you'll just have to assume whatever you want and stop pretending that it has anything to do with reality or logic.

I don't like to do useless things.

I can't tell if you're trying to be funny or if it's just happening. Nearly every thread you have started has been a list of useless things you are doing just because you want to.
Modifying a pistol that already works so it will work.
Modifying a pistol that is already reliable so it will be reliable.
Modifying a pistol so you can more easily perform a non-recommended procedure that is never necessary in the first place.

And I eliminate the possibility of setback ever occurring by manually chambering.

Useless. You can eliminate the possibility without direct chamber loading by just not rechambering ammo repeatedly. I've been using and carrying autopistols for decades and have never had to discard a round due to setback.

I've manually chambered over a Sig extractor 1,830 times with no sign of damage.

Useless for two reasons.

1. The manufacturer and others have already told you it's a bad idea so you don't need to find out for yourself.
2. You're testing a procedure that is never necessary. A person could use an autopistol every day of their life and never have to direct chamber load a round even once.

You have two different ways that you release the slide after inserting a magazine. That is a potential for problems.

Are you really saying that the ONLY way you ever chamber a round in your pistol is by direct chamber loading? When you reload at the range, or practice self-defense reloads, you never chamber the first round from the mag by dropping the mag? If you do ever chamber the first round from the mag by just dropping the slide, then you are loading your pistol at least two different ways and, according to you, "creating the potential for problems" which would make your comment hypocritical. If you really are ONLY loading your pistol by direct chamber loading regardless of the circumstances, well, then I don't know what to say other than we're back to comedy time, I guess.

You can consider an air cooled VW Beetle to be a tool to move you from place to place. But if you drive a bone stock VW Beetle hard, the flywheel will fall off unless you add 4 additional dowel pins to the crankshaft, replace the wavy washer under the gland nut with a larger solid washer, and preferably also use a stronger gland nut and double the torque to the gland nut, and also use Loctite on the threads. And that is what is required to make a bone stock engine reliable.

No that's nonsense, you don't need to do that to make a VW Beetle reliable UNLESS you mistreat it. Excellent example, by the way. You are correct about one thing--if you mistreat something, then you may find you need to modify it in order to make it hold up to being mistreated. Or you could just not mistreat it in which case the modifications are--useless.

 

[bdickens]

I don't like to do useless things.

Says the man regaling us with extended tales of all the useless things he's doing to his pistol because he thinks he knows more about it then the people who designed it and because he's too lazy to load a round the way it's supposed to be done and then drop the magazine and top it back off. Which takes all of maybe about 5 seconds.

 

[Robbins290]

What specifically broke? And extractor? Did it break while manually chambering a round?



How do you know? Were you actually measuring the overall length of your cartridges?

The potential for setback depends upon your pistol design and the brand of ammunition that you use. The chance of setback with Speer Gold Dot or Sig Elite Performance JHP is going to be very small. Their bullets are very well secured into their shell case. 20 chamberings from the magazine and I measured 1/2 of a thousandth of an inch of setback, and that could have been thermal drift of my electronic caliper. Remington Range FMJ begin to setback at the 3rd chambering. MagTech 9A FMJ set FORWARD after 12 chamberings. I got that much variation from testing only 5 different brands. Your mileage may vary.

I prefer to eliminate the potential for setback to occur in the first place.

I measured them with a caliber at first. No set back. Now i just eye ball them.

yes, the extractor broke while dropping the slide with a round in the chamber. From there on out, I stopped doing that as all the manuals i read said not to. Infact, i stopped topping the mag off as some pistols are hard to insert a full mag with the slide forward.

 

[JohnKSa]

Infact, i stopped topping the mag off as some pistols are hard to insert a full mag with the slide forward.

Interestingly enough, Beretta half-heartedly recommends against topping off magazines in some of their pistol manuals. I say half-heartedly because they do provide a procedure for doing so. However, the manual suggests that it's better for the magazine spring to not go +1. Of course, they've never revealed their testing data or methodology for how they arrived at that conclusion, so using the "Bundy Method", we can assume that they don't know what they are doing and/or they are trying to mislead us and disregard their advice.

 

[Homerboy]

Interestingly enough, Beretta half-heartedly recommends against topping off magazines in some of their pistol manuals. I say half-heartedly because they do provide a procedure for doing so. However, the manual suggests that it's better for the magazine spring to not go +1. Of course, they've never revealed their testing data or methodology for how they arrived at that conclusion, so using the "Bundy Method", we can assume that they don't know what they are doing and/or they are trying to mislead us and disregard their advice.

They recommend not topping off a magazine after it’s been depleted by one round after it was chambered? I’m sure they recommend not trying to cram one more round in there if it’s already fully loaded, so not trying to stuff a 16th round into a 15 round magazine. Never heard of them advising against dropping the mag and loading it to full capacity.

 

[JohnKSa]

I haven't looked at all their pistol manuals nor have I checked to see if the new manuals have it in there, but it's definitely in some of them, as I said. Like I say, they don't tell you not to, they just say it's an advantage not to. And then give you a procedure for how to do it if you're going to anyway.

Here's a quote from page 9 of a 92FS manual that came with one of my pistols.

"During normal chamber loading, as described above, the pistol contains one round in the chamber plus 14 rounds in the magazine. This is an advantage because the magazine spring is not fully compressed but under about the same tension as a 15-round loaded spare magazine."

Found some links.

http://www.stand-angoumoisin.fr/images/std/stand/Documentation/MANUELS/beretta_92fs.pdf

This one is a different edition, I guess. It's on page 12 in this one.

http://www.berettasupport.com/manuals/92GManual.pdf

 

[dogtown tom]

...... Sig does NOT approve of any of these methods and Sig refuses to say whether or not they have actually tested any of these methods with a P365. Sig is NOT being very transparent, but it is what I expect from most corporation.

Sig doesn't owe you "transparency".
Sig doesn't owe you an explanation or description of their testing procedures or methodology.
Sig being a corporation has nothing to do with nothing.
Sig doesn't want to embolden, encourage or endorse users of their firearms who seem bent on modifying their products by amateur gunsmithing.
Sig doesn't want to get sued by your heirs because of said amateur gunsmithing.

FYI, I have tested this 3rd method on an extractor 1,830 times. That is the equivalent of manually chambering a round every single day for 5 years.

How long does it take a monkey with a wooden leg to kick the seeds out of a dill pickle?

 

[Tinman357]

Well, I'm going to go on record here. ALLEN BUNDY can do whatever he likes to his personal property.

I have been following his posts on modifying his 365 and I feel his mods have merit. It's obvious he has experiance and skill, his improvements are well thought out and resolve those issues that clearly do exist.

Some may not agree with his reasons for doing so, but he obviously knows how to do it. I've used a few of his improvements to resolve issues with my own sidearms.

I appreciate his input here. I've been around this site since before the "big shakeup" so I've learned a lot from members posting their ideas here. No knowledge is wasted.

No need for bickering.

We are all just names on a screen. How about just a little common courtesy and a modicum of respect.

 

[JohnKSa]

Well, I'm going to go on record here. ALLEN BUNDY can do whatever he likes to his personal property.

Of course. No one has suggested otherwise.

The issue comes when he argues that he knows more than the manufacturer does, that the manufacturer is lying because they won't give him full transparency, that the technique he uses to prevent setback is a good idea (to prevent "potential problems"), etc.

It's one thing to say: "I painted my pistol blue." and another thing entirely to say: "I painted my pistol blue and you should do the same to prevent potential problems." Just as it is one thing to say: "You don't really need to paint your pistol blue." and another thing entirely to say: "You aren't allowed to paint your pistol blue."

 

[Homerboy]

I haven't looked at all their pistol manuals nor have I checked to see if the new manuals have it in there, but it's definitely in some of them, as I said. Like I say, they don't tell you not to, they just say it's an advantage not to. And then give you a procedure for how to do it if you're going to anyway.

Here's a quote from page 9 of a 92FS manual that came with one of my pistols.

"During normal chamber loading, as described above, the pistol contains one round in the chamber plus 14 rounds in the magazine. This is an advantage because the magazine spring is not fully compressed but under about the same tension as a 15-round loaded spare magazine."

Found some links.

http://www.stand-angoumoisin.fr/images/std/stand/Documentation/MANUELS/beretta_92fs.pdf

This one is a different edition, I guess. It's on page 12 in this one.

http://www.berettasupport.com/manuals/92GManual.pdf

Ah. I see. They’re saying that a fully loaded magazine pressing up against the underside of the slide is putting more pressure on the rounds in the magazine than a full magazine not seated in the gun.

But since the 92FS was a common police sidearm, where the carry load was 15 in the mag and one in the pipe, I gotta think it’s ok.

 

[JohnKSa]

Yup. The stripper rail depresses the top round. It has to because it has to be below the top of the top round at some point to feed it. With the gun in battery, the stripper rail is keeping the top round from moving up as far as the magazine would push it up if there were nothing holding it down. With a full mag in the gun and the slide forward, that means the mag spring is being compressed more than it would be with the mag out of the gun.

It's definitely ok to go +1 in a 92. They don't TELL you not to do it--in fact they even give an explicit procedure for how to do it if you want to. They just say there's an advantage to not doing it. I just thought it was an interesting comment for them to include in the manual so it stuck in my head.

 

[greyling22]

I'm missing something. Why not just drop the slide? I mean, it's not any harder on anything than firing the gun right?

 

[halfmoonclip]

Some guns should not be directly chamber loaded; 1911s with the original Browning extractor being the prime example. That sort of extractor is only meant to receive a round feeding up from the magazine; letting the slide slam on a chambered round will indeed damage it.
Current designs, with spring loaded extractors, have more flexibility than the Browning type.
They will tolerate a certain amount of being dropped on a chambered round; Bundy's mods to the extractor may well facilitate that.
The gun in question, a 365, is an easy feeder. Mine will chamber a sized, empty case with no drama at all, even when easing the slide closed. As mentioned, I 'granny' the slide when chambering scarce/expensive defense ammo, to avoid setback. That is the only time I do it; muscle memory wise, at the range, I let the slide slam when reloading range ammo.
BTW, never top off a 365 mag. Those rounds are pretty tightly packed anyway; no need to top it off.
Moon

 

[Alllen Bundy]

In other words, you are going to assume that they did not.

I asked Sig point blank if they tested manually chambering of their P365 and they refused to say. So I have to assume that they did not do the testing and I did the testing myself. I've found plenty of products that do NOT meet their advertised specification because I tested them.

Do you believe the capacity rating on Li-Ion batteries or LED lumen ratings? I've seen supposedly self protected Li-Ion cells that had ZERO protection circuits inside them. I've seen 12,000 mAH Li-Ion rated 18650 cells that had a capacity of only 500 mAh. I've got an LED Bicycle light that was advertised at 1,200 lumens but only puts out 350 lumens.

First of all, it's perfectly safe to "manually chamber" a round in any autopistol I know of. What you're talking about is direct chamber loading.

I call it manual chambering. I chamber the round, NOT the pistol automatically chambering the round from the magazine when the slide is actuated. You may manually actuate the slide, but it is the PISTOL that AUTOMATICALLY chambers the round from the magazine, NOT YOU!

Beretta says it's safe in their guns while other manufacturers (SIG in specific) say it's not safe in their guns. I'll tell you what. Email Beretta and ask them to tell you about their testing that they did to determine it's safe. If they don't answer you, then you will have to assume they didn't test it and can't really say it's safe.

Actually, I would NOT trust them. I used to perform UL safety testing. We could not have sold products to our customers if we did not show them the UL safety testing data and well as the performance testing data. That's reality. But that is the industrial world vs the consumer world where manufacturers often treat you, the customer, like crap.

Nearly every thread you have started has been a list of useless things you are doing just because you want to.

You may consider it useless, but you have blind faith in the product and I do not. The "Finishing" work that I have performed has objectively and measurably improved the performance and margin of reliability. There is so much friction from the stripper rail on a new P365 that some people cannot even rack the slide over a magazine loaded to capacity. Whereas even loaded to capacity, it is relatively easy to rack my slide and there is no gritty feeling like the Sig had out of the box, because I polished the stripper rail like Sig should have done.

Modifying a pistol that already works so it will work.

So it works MEASURABLY BETTER. It's no different than improving an automobile by improving the ignition system and indexing the spark plugs so you can run the fuel mixture leaner and cleaner providing more horsepower and better gas mileage. But I also match port the intake manifolds to the cylinder head ports for better airflow and more horsepower, etc.

Modifying a pistol that is already reliable so it will be reliable.

But the Sig P365 is NOT perfectly reliable right out of the box. I can show you photos of the Sig recoil spring coiled over itself and jamming with only about 200 rounds through it. I think I've heard of 6 cases of this problem so far. Right out of the box the P365 doesn't reliably chamber a round. You must be sure to release the slide quickly so the momentum can help push the slide into battery. There is so much extra resistance that the recoil spring is often not capable of pulling the slide back into battery by itself. There are plenty of people reporting return to battery failures with their P365s.

You cannot release the slide on my P365 slowly enough to prevent it from returning to battery, because I've removed needless sources of friction that are there because of less than optimum finishing by Sig.

The trigger on my P365X is very smooth because of the careful polishing that I performed. Not rough and gritty as it came out of the box. The trigger pull is 7.0 lbs on the nose, which works well for a conceal carry weapon.

Modifying a pistol so you can more easily perform a non-recommended procedure that is never necessary in the first place.Useless.

So polishing a part now qualifies as a modification??? Gimme a break. Do you believe everything people tell you? Sig told me that manual chambering could break the extractor, but offered no proof, nor would even say if they did any testing. I tested the extractor in my pistol 1,830 times with no sign of damage. I don't believe that Sig actually did ANY manual chambering tests what so ever. I strongly suspect that they made up the claim that manual chambering can break the extractor.

You can eliminate the possibility without direct chamber loading by just not rechambering ammo repeatedly.

But that requires that YOU do NOT make any human errors.

Or you can eliminate the possibility entirely by manually chambering a round. It's a more reliable process less prone to human errors. Eliminating the possibility of errors in the process is how the manufacturing world improves their reliability. It's part of the Deming method of quality control that many high quality manufacturers use.

1. The manufacturer and others have already told you it's a bad idea so you don't need to find out for yourself

Manufacturers frequently lie and people sometimes die because of it. Sig has NOT been transparent. This gives me reasonable cause to DISTRUST Sig. I didn't drink the Sig Kool-Aid and I'm not part of the Sig cult.

2. You're testing a procedure that is never necessary.

It is if you want to eliminate the possibility of chambering a round from the magazine more than once.

Are you really saying that the ONLY way you ever chamber a round in your pistol is by direct chamber loading?

I never said such a thing. But if I am to carry +1, I ONLY manually chamber the first round.

When you reload at the range, or practice self-defense reloads, you never chamber the first round from the mag by dropping the mag?

At the range I am not necessarily going to be loading +1 and I would fire every round in the magazine. But once I've finished at the range, I will manually chamber the first JHP round and insert a mag loaded with JHP ammunition.

If I'm practicing self defense reloads I use dummy rounds in the magazine made from bullets epoxied into spent shell cases with holes drilled into the shell case. There is no issue with bullet setback using a dummy round. After I insert a magazine I ALWAY release the slide quickly to maintain the muscle memory, even though under normal circumstances I can ease the slide on my P365X and it will ALWAYS return to battery because of the internal polishing that I have performed.

No that's nonsense, you don't need to do that to make a VW Beetle reliable UNLESS you mistreat it.

Maybe if you mean not driving like a granny is mistreating it. I've had two flywheels come loose so I always add 4 extra dowel pins that are also drilled deeper than stock and then use a reamer to match ream the crankshaft and flywheel to make a slight interference fit. The stock dowels in the crankshaft do NOT have an interference fit. It's a common enough problem that they have been making drill jigs to add the dowels to the crankshaft and flywheel since the early 1970's, as well as making higher strength gland nuts to be able to withstand torquing to double the factory recommended torque spec. There is also a problem with the wavy spring washers that VW uses on their rocker arm shafts. Replacing the wavy washers with carefully clearanced flat washers eliminates the reliability problem and allows higher RPM use before valve float occurs. It's time consuming but more reliable.

You also can't believe everything that you read. The official VW manual specifies a spark plug torque of 25 ft lbs. Unfortunately that results in cracking between the spark plug holes and the valve seats. The spark plug manufacturers specify a maximum of 21 ft lbs dry, which I determined by testing to be the equivalent of 18.5 ft lbs lubed with anti-seize compound. Some spark plug manufacturers recommend NOT using anti-seize compound. I've been using anti-seize compound since 1976 and I've NEVER had a problem OR a seized spark plug thread. But I think that the spark plug manufacturers are worried about getting conductive anti-seize compound on the insulator because of sloppy workmanship. Seized spark plugs is actually common on air cooled VW cylinder heads.

I really don't understand why you are so bent out of shape about polishing internal parts that would eventually be polished after many thousands or rounds through the pistol.

The only actual "modifications" that I have performed have been to mildly reshape and smooth out the grip module, reshape the floorplate to better fit my hand, and extend the magazine release button, and add weight to my grip module. I can't be too far off base when a least two companies are offering extended magazine release buttons and Wilson Combat offers a weighting kit for their P365 grip module.

 

[Alllen Bundy]

yes, the extractor broke while dropping the slide with a round in the chamber.

What brand and model pistol was this. Approximatey how many round had been shot through the pistol?

Infact, i stopped topping the mag off as some pistols are hard to insert a full mag with the slide forward.

I'll be posting my testing of the MagGuts kit for the P365X/XL magazines soon. It is easier to insert the MagGuts magazine loaded to 14 rounds than the stock Sig mag with 12 rounds. Yet with only one round left in the magazine the MagGuts kit still has as much upward spring force against the cartridge as the stock Sig magazine.

 

[JTQ]

Well, I'm going to go on record here. ALLEN BUNDY can do whatever he likes to his personal property.

You are absolutely correct.

I have been following his posts on modifying his 365 and I feel his mods have merit. It's obvious he has experiance and skill, his improvements are well thought out and resolve those issues that clearly do exist.

Have you been following his posts closely? Unless things have changed recently, I believe Allen Bundy has one pistol, the SIG P365, which he bought a couple of years ago. That is the limit of his pistol experience.

I believe nearly every thread/modification he has made regarding his P365 is borderline dangerous. While it isn't a problem for those that know their way around firearms, since those folks will simply ignore his recommendations, the danger is to those less knowledgeable, that may follow the recommendations of a pistol novice, who has a lot of free time and doesn't really know what he's doing.

 

[Alllen Bundy]

One last point to make. What happens if you have a magazine failure or a magazine release failure and the magazine won't stay in your pistol, or perhaps the pick on the stripper rail broke and won't chamber a round?

If you have polished the leading edge of your P365 extractor you can still easily manually chamber your pistol without any likely failure and still be able to fire your pistol, albeit reloading after every shot.

There are people claiming that some of the new 1911 one piece extractor replacements are very low quality and will likely break if you manually chamber them. But that the original military grade extractors could handle manual chambering well enough that soldiers were trained to manually chamber rounds. In the case that they had a chambering failure they could still fire their pistol.

 

[Alllen Bundy]

So just what have I done to my P365 that is remotely dangerous?

I polished the stripper rail. That will eventually be polished on it's own after many thousands of rounds through the gun. Some people cannot even rack the slide over a magazine loaded to capacity because of the friction against the cartridges. Mine racks smoothly over a magazine loaded to capacity.

I removed the burrs and polished the contact points of my trigger linkage. And just how is THAT dangerous? The burrs will eventually be worn down with use. But I've already removed the burrs so there won't be any metal particles to contaminate the lubrication. The timing of striker safety is still correct. The trigger has a 7.0 lb pull, which is quite reasonable for a conceal carry weapon.

I polished the shaft of a stainless steel aftermarket recoil spring assembly and properly Loctited it together, which the manufacturer FAILED to do properly, as in the Loctite never set up because they did NOT use a primer as they should have done because neither metal surfaces would activate the Loctite to cure without a primer

I solvent cleaned the original Sig RSA and a huge amount of crap came out, including metal particles. Then I relubed it. How it THAT going to cause a problem?

I lightly polished the sear components which would have worn in eventually.

I completely disassembled, cleaned, and lubed my P365X with Mil-Comm TW25B synthetic grease.

I polished the leading edge of the extractor. Guess what? That also reduces the chance of a stress riser being present. How is that polishing possibly going to cause a problem?

I polished the underside of the extractor and blunted the very sharp edge of the extractor that was SHAVING brass from the shell casings. I would rather not have brass shavings in my pistol, thank you very much. The pistol has never had a failure to extract

I correctly inserted a coiled spring pin for the extractor to the correct depth WITHOUT mangling it like Sig did from the factory.

I polished the breech face.

I polished the left adjacent wall to the breech face that was so rough that it was grinding brass from the shell casings.

I carefully blunted the sharp edges of the barrel tangs. That reduces the chance that a round will jam between them. And yes, it is possible for longer unspent rounds to jam and lock the slide so it won't move forward or backward.

I added a bit of epoxy to the magazine release button to extend it. It doesn't protrude any further than many other pistols. If the epoxy extension ever fell off, so what? The magazine release would still work.

I did a bit of sanding on the trigger guard to make it smoother. THAT is certainly going to cause my P365X to malfunction, isn't it?

I smoothed out the sharper edges on the beavertail so that my hand couldn't catch on it during a draw. I'm not the first person to notice this problem.

I sanded back the pointy leading edge of the MagGuts floorplate. And that is going to cause my P365X to malfunction how?

I sanded back the trailing edge of the MagGuts floorplate so that I could stand it on it's back just like a stock P365X/XL magazine floorplate.

I weighted my grip module with tungsten rods epoxied together and then glued into the grip module with 2-part urethane. Considering how difficult it was to pry out the original lead weight I seriously doubt that the glue will fail in my lifetime.

Just what have I done that will make my P365X less reliable or dangerous???????

 

[JDGray]

Working for UL, explains your desire to tinker, test things We can appreciate that. Metal does not activate loctite, the lack of oxygen does. Getting the surface spotless, or using the primer is a must. Loctite also expires, there is a date on the bottle. If gun makers did all the polishing that you do, they could not sell the guns at a reasonable price point, and yes, they do self polish after enough rounds.

 

[Alllen Bundy]

Metal does not activate loctite, the lack of oxygen does.

"LOCTITE® threadlockers cure in the absence of air and presence of metal ions."

Threadlocking User’s Guide. What You Need to Know to Ensure a Reliable Threaded Assembly

https://www.ellsworth.com/globalass...e/henkel-loctite-user-guide-threadlocking.pdf

I strongly recommend that you read the Loctite user's guide before using it again! One of the most common Loctite failures is caused by people using Loctite with stainless steel, aluminum, or oxide treated steel, WITHOUT using a primer. Loctite has recently begun making Loctite versions with the primer already inside and you can now find it in many auto parts stores. The reason that many people get by using Loctite on stainless steel or aluminum is that very often at least one surface is a source of metal ions. An oxide coated bolt may be scratched through the oxide layer sufficiently that that Loctite can active from the exposure to the iron in the scratched areas of the bolt.

If gun makers did all the polishing that you do, they could not sell the guns at a reasonable price point, and yes, they do self polish after enough rounds.

I challenge that it wouldn't cost that much more. It would cost you far more in ammunition to polish the parts than it would for Sig to do it. But anyone with good mechanical skills can do the work that I have performed and make the pistol reliable from day one. I performed all of the work on my P365 step by step over a long period of time and I took many before and after measurements of the force required to overcome various frictional forces and spring forces. But I could perform nearly all of this work in just one evening. I did not use ANY power tools to work on any actual SIg parts. It was all hand done, therefore the chance of a screw up was minimal. Making the grip weight and extending the magazine release button were the only things that were very time consuming.

FYI, I have never actually worked FOR UL. My company was certified by UL to do the testing ourselves. UL would come in and look at the test report, my test data, do some spot checking of my testing, and then certify the product. These test reports and test data were always available to our customers.

 

[JDGray]

I have no problem getting loctite to work, thanks for your concern though.