Simplicity and Old School designs.

[MICHAEL T]

S&W blue steel, walnut grips .Pinned barrel .and a real firing pin on the hammer . Hand fitted . No MIM parts Pre 80 series 1911's Ruger 357 Black hawk again no transfer bar Load 5 carry on empty . These are 2 times better than the plastic wonders. I have a 1880's S&W 32S&W SA top break that still shooting today another from around 1915 still going strong. 1911 that 75 years old was my carry for a long time.

How many of todays plastic wonders still be around in 50 or 75 years .

 

[X-Rap]

^^^^^^
Should put that guy in charge of the space program

 

[Sheepdog1968]

I too could live quite happily with pre 1952 firearm designs. My most favorite rifle is a 30-30 lever action and the pump action shotgun comes from a pre 1950s modified design. Having said that, new firearms have a lot development in them. I may never wayne poetically about a Glock but it does run very well. I will take my lever actions out of the safe from time to time just to run my fingers along wood and metal.

 

[USAF_Vet]

I'm not interested in any technology beyond the atlatl. It worked 100,000 years ago, still works today. I like wood, but what is this new fangled steel you guys keep talking about?

 

[Elkins45]

How many of todays plastic wonders still be around in 50 or 75 years .

Most of them. Plastic doesn't rust.

Ruger 357 Black hawk again no transfer bar Load 5 carry on empty

Yeah, because who wouldn't want a gun that you can only load to 83% capacity?

I'm not interested in any technology beyond the atlatl. It worked 100,000 years ago, still works today. I like wood, but what is this new fangled steel you guys keep talking about?

My doctor wanted to use some new thing called 'anesthesia' when she did my colonoscopy. I said "No thanks, Doc, I only do things the old way."

 

[Deaf Smith]

I pack a Glock, but my enjoyment guns are all older S&W, Ruger, Colt, Winchester, Marlin, etc guns.

My field gun is usually a Ruger GP100 (but I do use a S&W 629-1 to hunt.)

I would not say though the older guns were more 'simple' in design, nor more reliable. Plenty of junk guns were made 60 years ago.

Deaf

 

[zchry]

Honestly I prefer older guns. Mostly because they are the best looking bolt-action rifle around. Now don't get me wrong, if I need a semi-auto it's going to be a newer model. But there is just something I find so much more enjoyable about shooting an old, beat up milsurp.

 

[Lord Teapot]

S&W blue steel, walnut grips .Pinned barrel .and a real firing pin on the hammer . Hand fitted . No MIM parts Pre 80 series 1911's Ruger 357 Black hawk again no transfer bar Load 5 carry on empty . These are 2 times better than the plastic wonders. I have a 1880's S&W 32S&W SA top break that still shooting today another from around 1915 still going strong. 1911 that 75 years old was my carry for a long time.

How many of todays plastic wonders still be around in 50 or 75 years .

not sure, i'll PM you in 49 years to let you know if my glock is still around, i think plastic will last a lot longer than walnut

 

[huntsman]

Being a Gun Curmudgeon isn't as much about dates as is about Platforms Me I got no use for a pump gun, make mine a SXS and if I'm going to tote a revolver the SA is the choice.

 

[Lycidas Janwor]

I know I am on the cusp of decripitude and daily doses of Geritol. This I know.

Here recently, I have seen so many new firearms made of plastic, aluminum, etc., and I'm not impressed.

As I am at an age where I am about to mount my curmudgeonly throne and start grumbling in my beard about whippersnappers etc., I realized that Colt and Smith and Wesson made the only revolvers worth a hoot, Colt made a 1911, which was the pinacle of auto pistol design. Winchester made many fine rifles, the Model 54 and Model 70 coming to mind, never mind the 19th century icons of 1873, 1892, 1894, etc...

I just can't get excited about flimsy plastic stocks on parkerized bolt actioned rifles, don't even get me talking about AR15... Mattel! -meh! Every time I hear the word "platform" when referring to firearms I feel my face turning as red as a Marine Drill Instructor berating a recruit for calling a magazine a "clip."

Perhaps it is a case of arrested development.

Anybody else lose interest in firearms developed after, say, 1952?

--The future is for the young for a good reason. The significance of these newer designs is simply lost to me.

lol, I'm ok with this attitude. There's something to be said for the old guns made of steel and wood stocks. Nothing wrong with them at all.

I'm still considering buying a 1911 (I've got plastic pistols right now). It's just that I have to decide where my $ goes and I have to consider how much space I have too. Also, the whole ammo thing, how much do I need, where can I store it? All that said, I very much appreciate the older rifles and pistols/revolvers. I'm also considering buying a Freedom Arms revolver, just so I can have one. Do I need it? Nope.

 

[Lycidas Janwor]

I'm beginning to get 'up' in years. But living my adult life in the tech industry has enabled me to focus on looking ahead rather than behind.
By analogy, there is a lot of emotion and qualitative value in a 1960's Corvette split window coupe. But they are not great to drive, not very dependable and the performance is very bad relative to a modest level car made today.
It's not as extreme in the firearms business, principally due to one guy who may have been a space alien for all I know. JMB seemed to have descended from the heavens as he was so far ahead of everyone else in innovation and productivity. He was the DaVinci, Edison, Musk, Gates of his time and delivered a variety of designs that are both brilliant and timeless.
But even with his genius, a simple Glock, a PS90, a Benelli M4, a S&W V-Comp, an AR, an H&K P7M13 and on and on are all modern, forward-looking, ground breaking designs. I'd throw a Tavor, S&W 460 and a KSG in there as well, but they would likely start a lot of thread bashing.
The classics will remain classics. Sound designs, timeless beauty, colorful history, possessions to be handed down for generations. But for shooting, I'd prefer the latest in metallurgy, polymers, chemistry, ballistic/hypersonic modeling and computer aided design and 5-axis machining for most of mine.
B

great anology with the old vette. Is it a classic, yes. Do I want to drive it every day (or can I even drive it every day due to its reliability? Nope.). I love the old classics but my EDC is a Glock, and for good reason.

 

[Jimfern]

simplicity and reliability

I've got rifles that date to late 1800s and a good number of revolvers from, as early as, the early 1970s plus a number of pistols, but for plain simplicity and reliability, I've found that a Glock 26 is best for me. It not that the others are not reliable, it's just the Glock is more so for me.

 

[BaltimoreBoy]

So, with 1952 as a cut off you are going to exclude Pythons, Dan Wesson, and Ruger?

I have some sympathy for the view, but I can't follow you that far.

I also kind of like a double stack 45 acp that I can get my hand around.

 

[barnbwt]

I wonder what percentage of the "old school fans" even know what a metal shaper used to be? Modern guns don't have anything on the old ones in terms of 'complexity.' Why do you think they stopped making them the way they did?

"So, with 1952 as a cut off you are going to exclude Pythons, Dan Wesson, and Ruger?"
And Manurhin, and Korth...

TCB

 

[JohnBiltz]

The purpose of blueing was rust protection. I'll take Tenifer for rust protection any day. Wood got replaced by plastic and other materials because it worked better. The manufacturers did not do it to save money. People were replacing their wood with after market stocks at their own expense. The manufacturers tried to give the consumer what they wanted so they would buy their guns and they were right. The same thing happened with finishes. Again it happened that people preferred their guns without rust. Which is the real question, do you prefer your guns with rust or not? They were so right that wood and blue went away.

 

[Clint M]

I skimmed over much of the thread some interesting points. I admire fine craftsmanship as much as anyone, it wreaks of skilled labor, time taken to do the job correct, and the finest materials of the time.

That said materials have come a long way (exclude polymer for now) the metals used today are of much better quality, and especially from gun to gun as is the machine work, and ability to machine these materials exotic materials to the old days. I read an article once where aluminum was in the cost area of gold years ago (not sure when this was), and Titanium was unheard of. Bullets were round balls none of that pointy stuff the front would just break off.

We have come a long way with CNC machines, and finishing operations, the one thing I say has been a rainy cloud atop the gun manufacture world is the plastic injection molded stocks manufactures melt out by the slews, this is not to be confused with the likes of a true synthetic stock like McMillan and such.

I have collected many makes, and models have had some excellent examples the rust blued metal combined with oil finished walnut is a classic as anything I know of regardless of make. Even so I have sen examples of salts used in drying of the wood of Browning shotguns that etched that fine rust blue. I enjoy new, and old, I hope we continue to hold to our past while making breakthroughs in materials, and designs.

 

[win71]

On the other side of 70

And I prefer the "older" stuff. Pre 64's, blued metal, pinned and recessed, etc. I can't lay a date on what I like but "before 1952" is too restrictive for my likes.
I might go to 64 on some weapons, 74 on others and even 84 on some. If I chose 1952 I would have only owned one of these, maybe two;

 

[grter]

Variety I appreciate them all both old, new, and yes even some crappy guns are interesting.

 

[Hookeye]

I grew up shooting Colt Pythons, Match Target Woodsmans and hunted chucks in Jr High with a Ruger #1.

Had a pretty Citori Magnum for a while.

Like a pretty gun, yes I do.

But I hunt. And I hunt hard. Babying my pristine 1100 Magnum was a PITA and hundreds of doves and dozens of geese later it still looked like new.

I sold it to go plastic. Run a beater SP1100 mag, gunkoted w synth stock.
My deer rifle wears a plastic stock, as does my 700 yote rig. Turkey gun? Plastic stocked 870 Supermag. Fox rig? TC Contender.......rynite grip and forend.

Python? Wood grips swapped for Hogues. Commander rosewood grips given away.........Hogue slabs.

Only gun I have now with wood......my 10/22 fingergroove. It's too nice to take hunting, so I'm selling it.

Wish they made a stainless 10/22 with a fingergroove synth stock (checkered) for the 50th anniv model instead of that tacticool crap one.

I do have an AR, have had several. Don't like 'em (I hunted chucks with an FNC para along creekbanks when in college).

These days it's more about finding time to get out, and actually enjoy being out there.....last thing I want to worry about is my freakin' gun's stock.

Tired of the stress of babying nice rigs.

Nice is a pile of geese, or a big tom turkey after a rainstorm.

Plastic is king.

 

[win71]

Hookeye is right......

No question about it. I'm old. I hunted and shot most everything in the lower 48. Birds mostly with a Mod. 12. Never shot an 1100. Super x mod 1 a lot on the skeet field. Thanks to in-laws I went to Europe for 30 days in 1994 and part of the plan was to go to Ibar, Spain and purchase an AYA hand detachable side lock double barrel 20 ga. at the factory. This was not a cheap gun even then. I finally got possession of the gun two months later and under the circumstances it was risky business.
Bottom Hooleye line, the first time I went on a planned hunt after buying it, it was raining. I took my model 12. I didn't want to wreck my high dollar shotgun stock. From that hunt forward and for the last 20 plus years I"ve used the gun I loved and bought.
The bluing is gone on the balance point but if I point it it will kill it.
In a duck blind all day long, plastic and a painted receiver and barrel is the only way to go.

 

[Malamute]

I guess I missed the memo. I didnt realize we werent allowed to use "nice" wood and other fine things.

It's too nice to take hunting,

Huh? Does such a thing exist? I'd suggest the issue isnt the gun, its the owner. If you choose not to take a gun out, or to inordinately baby it, OK, but thats on you. It certainly isnt an inherant issue with the gun. I choose to use my guns. Some are very hard used, and were before I got them, some were new when I got them, and look like theyve been used hard for 30 years, because they have. I just cant fathom selling a nice gun to get an ugly plastic stocked, dull finished one, because another was "too nice to use". I see some nice guns in the Museum. Engraved, special order Winchesters and such. They have blue wear, small rust spots, scratches and gouges in the wood, and look fantastic. Some body USED them. Look at Roosevelts guns, he had extremely nice, special order guns, extra high grade wood, etc, and took them everywhere and used them. They have vastly more character than a pristine gun, and vastly more than a plastic gun.

I use my guns, and enjoy looking at them as the objects of functional art they are when they have engraving, extra nice wood etc.

 

[ku4hx]

The purpose of blueing was rust protection. I'll take Tenifer for rust protection any day. Wood got replaced by plastic and other materials because it worked better. The manufacturers did not do it to save money. People were replacing their wood with after market stocks at their own expense. The manufacturers tried to give the consumer what they wanted so they would buy their guns and they were right. The same thing happened with finishes. Again it happened that people preferred their guns without rust. Which is the real question, do you prefer your guns with rust or not? They were so right that wood and blue went away.

I guess I have to agree on some lever ... advancements are best. We just about a year ago bought a nice 60" flat screen TV. Over what we call Winter down here, one of our most favorite things to do was to sit in front of it with a simulated fireplace going (Netflix had several) and sip on a mug of freeze dried instant coffee sweetened with Stevia and lightened with skimmed milk.

A little earlier in the evening, my wife had made a really fine dish of crab Au Gratin using some select crab flavored fish chunks and fat free cheese. Yessir, in many cases the advanced synthetics and/or substitutes are THE way to go.

 

[Hookeye]

Just a 10/22............won't shoot much different than any other 10/22.
But the stock and condition of it is what sets the value a bit higher.
Better to ding one where depreciation won't be as rapid per mark.

View attachment 724653

My first 1100 Magnum was shiny, and had good wood (still just an 1100). Not the best of choices for waterfowl or turkey. Yeah I did tape it up a few times........screw that.

I run an 1100 SP now, swapped in plastic stock. Hunted it in rain, fell down big ravines.........don't care. Oil it up and go (purchased used, it had some funky staining on the parkerizing- got it dirt cheap- has since been Gunkoted).

Now I did get caught in a super downpour once deer hunting, toting my '69 E series Colt. Total disassembly afterward, has holster wear from prev owner using it since '72. But I made damn sure it didn't get any rust on it after that cold wet day.

It became my sunny day deer rig. I even babied it for the pic, since the leaves were wet LOL.

View attachment 724654

 

[Hookeye]

I'd be thrilled to have a 10/22 stainless in a synth DSP fingergroove checkered stock. Think that would have tolerable looks and be less likely to show any oops or oh craps (that stuff often happens afield, or at the kitchen table when cleaning).

Yeah I'd like a dual trigger Anschutz or Steyr..........love the look. But getting older and being more of a klutz.....and more driven for the event and not the gear.........I'm not gonna go through extra effort in possibly avoiding damage.

Was checking on the Merkel Helix. Looks funky, worse in synth. Wood sure is pretty. Either one is out of my league for now. Odd how they offer it with that black ugly plastic though

Funny, I pretty much abuse my rigs these days (compared to how I used to hunt) and my stuff after several seasons looks pretty darn good. Have seen many folks who trash a gun after one season. Guess it's all relative.

 

[Hookeye]

BTW, my dad bought a Ruger Red Label in that horrible stainless/black plastic config.

Told him to put wood on it, or send the plastic stock off for film dip. Was checking a certain film dip site, where they had a decent wood grain pattern (custom/royalty for added charge).

Think a Ruger #1 in stainless to be homely, but then I don't like black pads on the blued/walnut ones either.