Since when did Kimber quaility go down the tubes?

[Katana8869]

I decided to by a Kimber based on all the good things I had heard about them in the past. While I was waiting, I started going to diferent gun boards and reading up on them and I was amazed at how bad many people claimed their experiences were.

I even posted here and on some other forums about it, but most responses indicated it was only so much errornet non-sense. With that in mind I decided to go through with the purchase.

Now I am one of those posting about how crappy my Kimber is.

My gun, a Pro Carry HD II is the most disappointing gun purchase I have ever made. I decided to get my 500 round break in done and experience every kind of malfuntion possible. Multiple FTF's, some on the 1st round out of the magazine, some out of the last, brass ejecting into my face several times, and I lost count of how many times I had to push the slide into battery. Let's also not forget the slide repeatedly locking open on loaded magazines.

I called Kimber who of course wanted it sent back. I hate dealing with the whole shipping it back scenario, but Kimber offered to pay for the shipping so what the hey.

I work a really crappy schedule, so it was worked out for Kimber to have UPS pick the gun up where I bought it. I dropped it off on thursday and thought no more of it. Today I found out it is still at the shop because Kimber never called the shop back to set up the pick-up ticket for UPS

All of my frustration aside, when did Kimber decide it is okay to ship guns that are so rough and tight, that they require 500 rounds or more for break in? Every range report posted online seems to include "I had x# FTF and I had to push it into battery and the slide locked back prematurely x# times.

Give me a break! How can a company that supplies guns to the Marine Corps and law enforcement have this kind of QC trouble?

Since when is good manufacturing putting out guns that are so tight and out of spec that bitching at Dennis at the custom shop and sending guns back to New York seems to be part of the standard review on virtually every Kimber product?

What really concerns me is that those that do send their guns back don't seem to fare much better. I hope that's not a club I am about to join as well (that is if I can get them to just pick the damn thing up like they promised )

I know Kimber couldn't have gotten to where they are now and gained the reputation that they have (had?) on this kind of stuff. What in the world has happend to this company?

 

[Just Jim]

My opinion is that Kimbers went bad when they stared making the IIs. They started messing with Brownings gun and screwed it up. I own two early models and they run perfect and shoot straight. I would never buy a two model.

jj

 

[sm]

Agree with above.
The OLDer Kimbers before "Series I" are fine guns as are the OLDer Series I .
I do not do Series IIs

 

[gudel]

so did you get your gun fixed?

 

[glockman19]

My Raptor II and Custom II have performed flawlessly for me. NO FTF's NO FTE's just aim, pull trigger and the round goes exactly where I point it. I like them so much I'm planning on getting a Pro Raptor II and Ultra Raptor II to round out the Raptor II Collection in addition to an Ultra Carry II. They do produce alot of guns and I'm sure some go out without meeting Quality Control. Does your's have the internal or external extractor? I've heard of problems with external. All mine are internal.

 

[cslinger]

Not to worry Kimbers president moved on to SIG which means he will F up SIG for a while. :banghead:

 

[Katana8869]

so did you get your gun fixed?

No it's still sitting in the shop where I bought it waiting for Kimber to pick it up.

Kimber promised me they would send the shop a pick up order for UPS on thursday and failed to follow through. The shop has called them and advised them it is there as well. They have not gotten a call back or any other response from Kimber.

Glockman19, it is an internal extractor. I have only had it since last weekend.

I did the break in all in one day. 500 rounds of FMJ, JHP RNL and LSWC. I had malfuntions with every type of ammo used.

During the break in, I cleaned and lubed the gun every 150 rounds. The problems did not lessen as the session went on but stayed the same all the way through.

Even on the last batch of ammo fired I got failures to feed and failures to return to battery.

Edit to add: I fired the LSWC first and initially wasn't all that concerned. I know LWSC can be hard to digest, especially for a new gun, but everything else had problems too.

 

[targatop]

I was super surprised to see Kimbers lining the walls of Sportsmans Warehouse today, being tossed around for $800 or less in most cases - with some customs. They must have had 20 Kimbers on the wall of the Sportsman Warehouse today - far more 1911's than any other brand. My impression is that they were generally hard to come by - now I see them everywhere. Maybe they've bumped production to meet demand and lost some quality in the process - much like Harley Davidson went through in the 1980's. HD finally fixed their quality issues by cutting back production and focusing on quality again. Hopefully they will pick it back up - or that these are random cases - because they are a gun I have hoped to add to my collection.

 

[steveno]

I have a Kimber sst compact (internal extractor) that has 6,000 rounds through it with no problems. I wanted a full size 1911 so I got a S & W 1911 because of what I percieve as quality problems at Kimber real or imagined.

 

[xring44]

I have a commander size CDPII custom shop Kimber, it has run flawlessly from day one, very accurate........

 

[Adder]

No issues here with my Raptor II

 

[1 old 0311]

Years ago EVERYONE agreed Kimber was 'top shelf.' I wouldn't touch one now.

 

[Ala Dan]

I also have had NO issues with my Kimber Stainless Ultra Carry II, and use
it as my everyday CCW piece~!

 

[Hawk]

I've found divining one's chances of getting a bowser from teh intr4w3b to be a challenge.

I responded in your "stop order" thread so won't repeat myself.

I would like to know if service has improved any. Most of the deepest BS came from my dealer, not Kimber directly.

Nevertheless, it was an experience I don't care to repeat. I'm sure the majority of new product runs fine and I might even buy a used one from a member who posts here that his runs great. However, I wouldn't give you 75.00 for a new tacticalgrandraptercustomtargetwarriorII.

I'm worn out with being an unpaid QC inspector. STI, Colt and others don't require it of me. In fact, Kimber seems unique in expecting it.

 

[skynyrd1911]

I bought a Colt Defender a few years ago and it was JUNK. I too own a "Series I" Kimber and it's the most dependable gun I own.........besides my Ruger SP101. I would probably buy a Series II if I could find a smoking deal on one. Right now I'd like to have a Series I Compact.

 

[dhoomonyou]

I HAD A Pro carry2, lotsa lotsa trouble.
External extractor, jams galore, KIMBER (DENNIS in the custom shop, A very NASTY person.) refused to pay for return shipping, started to question the way I was maintaining the gun. wanted me to replace all springs (at my cost) and let them know. traded it for a GLOCK 26, been VERY happy since.

 

[Katana8869]

I'm worn out with being an unpaid QC inspector. STI, Colt and others don't require it of me. In fact, Kimber seems unique in expecting it.

From what I am gathering and based on my own experience, that seems to be exactly what is happening.

The guns are built extremely tight, then released with seemingly no inspection at all. It is then up to the customer to either waste a bunch of money on ammo to "break it in" or do an inordinate amount of legwork to get Kimber to do what they should have done before the gun left.

I thought my Pro Carry would make an ideal carry piece, but after it's dismal initial performance, I would have alot of trouble ever trusting my life to this gun.

 

[Katana8869]

Years ago EVERYONE agreed Kimber was 'top shelf.'

That was the reputation that I bought this one one. I have always heard good things about them and handled and shot ones that belonged to other people.

I always considered them something that would be a good buy.

The thing is, what really pisses me of is this was a gun that my Dad and I talked about alot. He always said he would like to own one someday. I lost him in October and I bought it in his memory.

I don't think I have to say any more. I'm sure you guys get where I 'm going with that...

 

[Geno]

Hawk:

Amen to that! Let me lay a quote on you all from "Dennis" since his name has now been presented. It was with Dennis that I had 100% of my Kimber "dealings" during my run of 5 defective "Custom" Shop Kimbers. When I asked Dennis how all of these “Custom Shop” pistols managed to make it through CQ, he retorted,

"We turn out 1,000 pistols a day. There are bound be some slip through with issues! We just have people return them and we'll make it right".

Yeah, eventually! I have owned 14 or 15 Kimbers! I know Kimbers, and I know them well! Kimber's problem is deeper than mechanical...it's "inter-personal", as in "personnel". Call the Senior Executive Vice President of Customer Relations...he knows Dennis' name reeeeeal well...believe me...he had Dennis' "number".

I bought the Warrior that I presently have listed for sale here, because it is a Series I. It runs great, but in spite of the fact that is accurate, and never fails with any ammunition, I just can't get past the way Dennis at Kimber treated me. So, my solution is to do away with Kimber altogether. I personally do not care to ever risk any future interactions with Dennis at Kimber, and that means selling my last Kimber, my Warrior, in spite of the fact that it runs great!

Have any of you ever tried to sell a used Kimber? If you can pull that off, go buy a lottery ticket...you'll be as-likely to win the lottery-as to sell your used Kimber.

Doc2005

 

[dhoomonyou]

EXACTLY.

what happened to making sure the product is "debugged" before it leaves the plant?

and then the KIMBER (dennis) attitude is "blame the victim"

He wanted to see receipts for the springs I replaced, claiming that if I had a car with engine trouble the manufacturer would want to see oil change records!! you know its a problem with the internal extractor, just replace it (slide) and I will go away if it works well. HE said send it in , KIMBER willl not pay shipping because its my problem not a defect.

I SAID KMA.

I tried to call the Presidents office and got now where.

I paid close to $700 for the pro carry 2, and had very few trouble free range sessions, and certainly no faith in it as a self defender.

 

[givo08]

I think they spend more money for their full page color advertisements in every gun mag out there than they do on QC.

 

[ID_shooting]

This has been going on for years. Just do a search on my name and Kimber. I owned one, will never own another again. I am one of the "owned a kimber, got my money back and bought a Glock" crowd.

What bugs me most about it is that they admit to having issues yet still charge custom gun prices. I feel in order to turn them selves around they will have to fix thier QC issues and drop the price to the $500 range in order to win a good following back.

 

[Geno]

Fellas:

As soon as I can get my daughter off of the cable internet and I can access it, I will post about 14 pictures of one of these "Custom" Shop pistols...a Pro Raptor. It was the 4th of 5 defective pistols that I bought last summer. Even after 750 rounds of ammunition fired, the problems, such as failures to go into battery, etc persisted. Now when I say failures, I mean 7 or 8 out of every 10 round magazine. By the way, changing out magazines is pure BS. Wait until you see this Pro Raptor's pitted rails on the receiver, the pitted bore of the barrel, the bent hammer (the loop was bent…difficult to see in pictures…obvious in person), the gouged-out receiver, gauged out by the spur on the slide's firing pin block plunger. It also had a bent safety on the right-hand side. I swear, I think Kimber maintains a box of defective parts, and from time-to-time, they build a 1911 from defective parts just to pi$$ someone off. If a picture is worth a thousand words, the 14 pictures that I will post constitutes an encyclopedia of Kimberology.

After I post those pictures, you tell me if I over-reacted to call the SEVP. Also tell me if you would have been upset that the pistol was boxed up, shipped back to you, untouched, and never repaired under the guise that the parts were all "...within specs..."!

Doc2005

 

[Kevinch]

I dunno, I must be a lucky one. I have 2 Kmber 1911 pistols, both Series I, a full sized Stainless (the base 1911 in SS), & the 3" Ultra CDP.

Both work they way they should. I just took a 1 day Handgun Class with my wife & daughter, used the Stainless & it ran without incident for over 200 rounds.

As far as guns going back to the manufacturer, I've done that with S&W, Ruger, & Taurus. It's a hassle to return them, but all were fixed to my satisfaction & returned.

Slightly off-topic, if I did have a handgun - revolver, SA auto, DA auto, etc - that needed repair that was not covered by warranty, I'd consider sending it to an independant gunsmith before going back to the factory. For lifetime warranty coverage, I think the only choices are Taurus & S&W. On the internet, it seems that S&W does get the nod for Best Customer Service when compared to Taurus & Kimber.

 

[Geno]

Kevin:

No, you're correct...your pistols were series I. My Series I Kimbers were excellent! Even my first 8 or so series II were excellent. Kimber's big problems began about 2 to 3 years back. They went full-blown at the time of the notorious external extractor! These 5 defective pistols were all purchased within an (approximate) 6-month period. I suspect that the defective pieces of junk persist in re-circulating. Until those defective pistols are fixed, or melted down, they will continue to plague shootists. Now, all manufacturers put out defective products...it happens, but not to this degree. And or course, it would be absurd to assert that Kimbers are "junk". They are not junk...they are excellent. The company simply produces an unacceptable number of defective pistols, and further, Dennis (or someone at Kimber) fails to assure that they are fixed right the first time.

Doc2005