dodge
Member
How many use a single action revolver for self defense? Although I have a 45 acp I wouldn't hesitate to use either my of my blackhawks ( 45 Colt and 357 mag) for SD if that was all I had in my hand when needed.
Single Action Revolver for SD
- Thread starter dodge
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mustanger98
Member
I recall another thread on this subject some time back. Somebody brought up some old guys out in southern Arizona packin' Colt's Peacemakers in worn-looking leather holsters. I wouldn't hesitate to pack a Ruger's Vaquero .45Colt loaded with hot HP's in a SD role.
Ryder
Member
There was a time when the Super Blackhawk in 44mag was my only pistol. Darn right I carried it for self-defense.
Recently considered getting a Ruger Bird's Head Vaquero in .45 LC for concealed carry. Fits me real good, a pure joy to hold and aim. Didn't like what I read about parts replacements needed to make this a dependable trouble free gun however. Someday I'll have time to waste on such a thing, just not now.
Single action verses double action or semi-auto for a self defense application doesn't matter much. You can learn to be proficient with them all.
Recently considered getting a Ruger Bird's Head Vaquero in .45 LC for concealed carry. Fits me real good, a pure joy to hold and aim. Didn't like what I read about parts replacements needed to make this a dependable trouble free gun however. Someday I'll have time to waste on such a thing, just not now.
Single action verses double action or semi-auto for a self defense application doesn't matter much. You can learn to be proficient with them all.
Texas Moon
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I've got a friend who packs an Uberti "Lightning" birdhead grip .45LC for his CCW weapon. He shoots cowboy action matches with it and is pretty darn good. His reasoning is why buy another pistol when he shoots this one so well. Plenty of knock down power. Slow to reload but he fiqures he won't need more than six anyway.
Beware the man with one gun.
Beware the man with one gun.
mustanger98
Member
Ryder said:
I've thought of that too. While I like the standard grip better for feel in my hand, I found a Birdhead Vaquero .45 or Birdhead Single-six .32H&Rmag seemed to fit better in my waistband (with a IWB holster in mind) having a more "dehorned" feel.
biere
Member
Some searches in the revolver section should turn up some discussions.
Overall it comes down to a person that is comfortable with what they carry. In the discussions it has been mentioned that at one gun school a well known teacher did some shooting with 2 single actions. By reloading as he shot instead of shooting all the rounds in the revolver and then reloading all the rounds in the revolver he was able to keep up an impressive rate of aimed fire on the target course.
Many also point out that the single action can be the fastest gun to make the first shot, but holster choice and practice mean a lot in this so I do not want you thinking I said this.
Many also point out that single actions can shoot bigger rounds, so if you want to ccw in town you load 45 colt hollow points and if out and about in the nasty woods you can load 454 casull, well this only works if you have a 454 casull single action but you get the concept.
I have found that the more I lean towards using a handgun for self defense the more I use just one gun. This allows me to become better with this gun, I sucked at trying to be accurate with all the handguns I had in my safe. They were all different types and calibers and what not and overall it was not ingrained in my brain how the gun in my hand worked unless I thought about it.
After shooting 1k rounds through one handgun it is ingrained, how is that word spelled properly?, how the gun works and feels and shoots.
If you run some searches for the gunblast website you will find a good site with lots of articles. Some reading of the article titles will get you to find some holster reviews. There are some nice single action holsters being made that would work for ccw if you choose to head in that direction.
Overall I have long ago decided that what a person chooses to ccw is a personal choice.
I don't know anyone who only ccws a single action revolver, I know a few who do it now and then because they choose to do so.
I know some folks who only ccw a double action revolver, I don't tell them they should have something else.
I know some folks who ccw old mag fed semi-autos, some even have a bad rap, but these folks shoot the gun a lot and know their gun and I am not about to tell them they should do otherwise.
I generally remend someone consider a somewhat modern mag fed semi-auto for learning handguns but then again that single action just fits the hand well and if someone learns how to work it well I sure as heck won't be telling them they are outgunned.
From what little I have learned since I have been shooting I have decided that being comfortable with what you are shooting and being accurate is what counts.
Since some folks can reload a single action pretty quickly and the folks I know who sometimes carry them participate in that cowboy action shooting competition I am not about to think less of them because of what they chose.
I know in some of the other discussions many people wonder how a single action can compete against a glock 17 or something. Depending on how many shots are needed I wonder why a single action is not adequate in most ccw needs?
Anyway, that is all I remember reading and thinking. I sure as heck don't feel undergunned with my super blackhawk in 44 mag but then again I have never had to shoot anything meaner than a wild dog.
Overall it comes down to a person that is comfortable with what they carry. In the discussions it has been mentioned that at one gun school a well known teacher did some shooting with 2 single actions. By reloading as he shot instead of shooting all the rounds in the revolver and then reloading all the rounds in the revolver he was able to keep up an impressive rate of aimed fire on the target course.
Many also point out that the single action can be the fastest gun to make the first shot, but holster choice and practice mean a lot in this so I do not want you thinking I said this.
Many also point out that single actions can shoot bigger rounds, so if you want to ccw in town you load 45 colt hollow points and if out and about in the nasty woods you can load 454 casull, well this only works if you have a 454 casull single action but you get the concept.
I have found that the more I lean towards using a handgun for self defense the more I use just one gun. This allows me to become better with this gun, I sucked at trying to be accurate with all the handguns I had in my safe. They were all different types and calibers and what not and overall it was not ingrained in my brain how the gun in my hand worked unless I thought about it.
After shooting 1k rounds through one handgun it is ingrained, how is that word spelled properly?, how the gun works and feels and shoots.
If you run some searches for the gunblast website you will find a good site with lots of articles. Some reading of the article titles will get you to find some holster reviews. There are some nice single action holsters being made that would work for ccw if you choose to head in that direction.
Overall I have long ago decided that what a person chooses to ccw is a personal choice.
I don't know anyone who only ccws a single action revolver, I know a few who do it now and then because they choose to do so.
I know some folks who only ccw a double action revolver, I don't tell them they should have something else.
I know some folks who ccw old mag fed semi-autos, some even have a bad rap, but these folks shoot the gun a lot and know their gun and I am not about to tell them they should do otherwise.
I generally remend someone consider a somewhat modern mag fed semi-auto for learning handguns but then again that single action just fits the hand well and if someone learns how to work it well I sure as heck won't be telling them they are outgunned.
From what little I have learned since I have been shooting I have decided that being comfortable with what you are shooting and being accurate is what counts.
Since some folks can reload a single action pretty quickly and the folks I know who sometimes carry them participate in that cowboy action shooting competition I am not about to think less of them because of what they chose.
I know in some of the other discussions many people wonder how a single action can compete against a glock 17 or something. Depending on how many shots are needed I wonder why a single action is not adequate in most ccw needs?
Anyway, that is all I remember reading and thinking. I sure as heck don't feel undergunned with my super blackhawk in 44 mag but then again I have never had to shoot anything meaner than a wild dog.
Jacobus Rex
Member
One of my favorite images that I have in my head is my grandfather with his single action revolver. It was his only pistol. As a store owner defending his property, he used it on a number of occasions. Luckly, it never came down to killing anybody. Although he sure filled a man's car full of holes once!
He was born in 1913 and lived into the 1990's. He never saw the need to replace it and it was proof positive that it is the man behind the gun not the gun that makes 99% of the difference.
He was born in 1913 and lived into the 1990's. He never saw the need to replace it and it was proof positive that it is the man behind the gun not the gun that makes 99% of the difference.
On a few occasions, I have carried a SA revolver for CCW and would do so again...well, if just had to.
The only shortcomings I see, as contrasted with a DA revolver :
1. Necessity of carrying the hammer down on an empty chamber (for some guns, like old model Ruger Blackhawk I used to carry.)
2. Slower and less convenient to reload if or when this became necessary.
The only shortcomings I see, as contrasted with a DA revolver :
1. Necessity of carrying the hammer down on an empty chamber (for some guns, like old model Ruger Blackhawk I used to carry.)
2. Slower and less convenient to reload if or when this became necessary.
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griz
Member
Texas Moon said:
If I remeber right, the Uberti is a Colt clone. If so, he should have an empty chamber under the hammer to avoid surprises. Sorry to be picky if you simply meant five when you said six.
mustanger98
Member
griz said:
I thought of that too. But, like John Wayne said in character as John Bernard Books, "if your insides tell you to load six, you load six." But otherwise, he was telling Ron Howard's character to load five.
This said, lately I've been hearing that a lot of cylinder blow-outs have been caused by light target loads and an empty 6th chamber. They said even if you only have an empty case in that chamber it supports the chamber walls and in turn supports the cylinder. Take that for what it's worth because while I heard it, I have no relating data.
MCgunner
Member
mustanger98 said:
Sounds like total BS to me.
One thing even Colt pattern single actions are is strong. Men have been carrying 5 for since the time when you loaded your powder and rammed in the ball.I don't find any of my single actions to be anywhere near comfy IWB. They're belt guns. Of course, they're full sized blackhawks. A .32 SSM would be a little smaller and lighter. Maybe a Sheriff's model colt clone.
Heck, I HAVE used a cap and ball for personal protection, but, I don't recommend it. It was only because I'd loaned my .357 to a friend and it was my only other handgun of note other than my .25 auto. I've progressed since then.
I carry .38 snubs and a compact 9 because it packs a lot of power in a small, easy to carry package. However, you gotta admit, it also makes a lot more sense in the self defense roll. I'd feel a little under gunned down in the hood among the crips and the bloods with a single action. I'd rather have my P85 and its five 15 round mags.
I have to admit, though, a .45 colt in a one on one confrontation isn't something to be dismissed as frivolous. It did the job 130 years ago, it could do the job today. I carry mine sometimes outdoors, but not IWB.If you needed a thin brass case to support the steel cylinder walls of a .45, no one would sell the guns for fear of lawsuits.
I've shot a lot of rounds through a couple of Remington 1858 replicas, and of course their chambers are completely empty once fired. BP may be slow-burning, but it's also easy to load a chamber too hot, or get higher pressures due to different ramming force. The walls on the Remington cylinder are not thick. No problem. Cartridge conversions also load 5, no problem.
WRT using a real gun for self-defense, there's an old cowboy saying: "If yuh can't get the job done in five shots, it's time to get the hell out of there."
Quote from Edward R. "Frosty" Potter, who was born in 1895 and wrote a few books about the slang and lore of Western ranching. He is pictured with a SAA, and his bio says that he used a .45 SAA as a pacifier when he was a baby. That "fact" could, of course, be horsepuckey.
http://www.goldenwestpublishers.com/books.asp?cat=AZHistory
I've shot a lot of rounds through a couple of Remington 1858 replicas, and of course their chambers are completely empty once fired. BP may be slow-burning, but it's also easy to load a chamber too hot, or get higher pressures due to different ramming force. The walls on the Remington cylinder are not thick. No problem. Cartridge conversions also load 5, no problem.
WRT using a real gun for self-defense, there's an old cowboy saying: "If yuh can't get the job done in five shots, it's time to get the hell out of there."
Quote from Edward R. "Frosty" Potter, who was born in 1895 and wrote a few books about the slang and lore of Western ranching. He is pictured with a SAA, and his bio says that he used a .45 SAA as a pacifier when he was a baby. That "fact" could, of course, be horsepuckey.
http://www.goldenwestpublishers.com/books.asp?cat=AZHistory
mustanger98
Member
What I neglected to include in that last post is that the empty sixth chamber needing a case for support sounded really odd to me and it's only recently that I've heard it. And on the Outdoor Channel gun shows, no less.
I tried it with Birdhead-gripped Sheriff's models and Single-six .32mags. Those felt pretty decent, but those aren't really holster models, considering they were made for CCW before "CCW guns" were really thought of in the modern context. Like I said, the Birdhead grips and fixed sights had a dehorned feel to them, kinda like the "melted" or dehorned effects done on custom CCW semiautos. If I can find, or preferably make, a IWB holster for that kind, I wouldn't be past CCWing with a SA sixgun.
Here I go quoting Elmer Keith again, but he dealt with cap&ball revolvers back when 38spl was what some would consider an anemic underpowered popgun. He said a Colt's Navy .36 properly loaded with round ball- as opposed to conicals available then- had more stopping power than .38spl, yet some people wondered how their grandparents survived using the allegedly inferior technology. Now, I've shot .25auto and read some data and testing and that's one I wouldn't bet my life on. Appearantly you wouldn't either.
Yeah, no arguement there. The advice handed down from my Grandpa to my Daddy to me is that if you stay out of some places, you avoid a whole lot of trouble. If it came to it, I'd be using my .45Colt sixgun to try to cover my retreat out of there, if I were there to begin with. However, if I knew I were heading that way and knowing I was going into harm's way, I'd be packing two 1911A1's and ten extra loaded 7rd mags (84rds total). But, this goes into a different situation and anybody going into combat should be considering a shotgun or carbine.
I tried it with Birdhead-gripped Sheriff's models and Single-six .32mags. Those felt pretty decent, but those aren't really holster models, considering they were made for CCW before "CCW guns" were really thought of in the modern context. Like I said, the Birdhead grips and fixed sights had a dehorned feel to them, kinda like the "melted" or dehorned effects done on custom CCW semiautos. If I can find, or preferably make, a IWB holster for that kind, I wouldn't be past CCWing with a SA sixgun.
Here I go quoting Elmer Keith again, but he dealt with cap&ball revolvers back when 38spl was what some would consider an anemic underpowered popgun. He said a Colt's Navy .36 properly loaded with round ball- as opposed to conicals available then- had more stopping power than .38spl, yet some people wondered how their grandparents survived using the allegedly inferior technology. Now, I've shot .25auto and read some data and testing and that's one I wouldn't bet my life on. Appearantly you wouldn't either.
Yeah, no arguement there. The advice handed down from my Grandpa to my Daddy to me is that if you stay out of some places, you avoid a whole lot of trouble. If it came to it, I'd be using my .45Colt sixgun to try to cover my retreat out of there, if I were there to begin with. However, if I knew I were heading that way and knowing I was going into harm's way, I'd be packing two 1911A1's and ten extra loaded 7rd mags (84rds total). But, this goes into a different situation and anybody going into combat should be considering a shotgun or carbine.
Jim March
Member
We now have six SA gun types in production with transfer bar safety systems safe for six-up carry.
Three are Rugers:
The Single Six frame series in 22LR, 22Mag and 32Mag;
The New Vaquero/50th Anniversary BH in the mid-size frame (similar in size and heft to the Colt SAA);
The Ruger large frame SAs such as the 44Mag Vaquero, Blackhawks and SuperBlackhawks;
The Freedom Arms 97 series (sixguns in 357 and 32Mag, fiveguns in 44Spl and 45LC);
The Taurus Gaucho (similar in size and heft to the Colt SAA);
The Beretta Stampede (similar in size and heft to the Colt SAA).
All of these are just as safe as any modern DA revolver and some people would argue safer. They are certainly safe for six-up carry.
What else...the Freedom Arms '83 frame has a hammer block safety versus transfer bar, and FA says it's not safe fully loaded (generally five-guns). Others say it's safe...but they're too big for CCW regardless.
Three are Rugers:
The Single Six frame series in 22LR, 22Mag and 32Mag;
The New Vaquero/50th Anniversary BH in the mid-size frame (similar in size and heft to the Colt SAA);
The Ruger large frame SAs such as the 44Mag Vaquero, Blackhawks and SuperBlackhawks;
The Freedom Arms 97 series (sixguns in 357 and 32Mag, fiveguns in 44Spl and 45LC);
The Taurus Gaucho (similar in size and heft to the Colt SAA);
The Beretta Stampede (similar in size and heft to the Colt SAA).
All of these are just as safe as any modern DA revolver and some people would argue safer. They are certainly safe for six-up carry.
What else...the Freedom Arms '83 frame has a hammer block safety versus transfer bar, and FA says it's not safe fully loaded (generally five-guns). Others say it's safe...but they're too big for CCW regardless.
griz
Member
I have heard that with SA guns chambered for some of the more brutal recoiling calibers they recommend not firing the gun with an empty chamber. But it's to give support to the loading gate, which apparently can get tweaked if there isn't a case head for it to snuggle aginst. I have no experience with those cannons, but maybe that's what they were talking about?
Lloyd Smale
Member
ive done it many times and never felt undergunned.
mustanger98
Member
Moonclip said:Does a NAA mini revolver count?
Well, it's a revolver and it's SA... I've heard of devastating results dealt out by a .22 Stinger to the head. I'm sure we will soon read more comments on this regarding the obvious issues of shot placement and penetration as compared to larger calibers.
Let's don't get started with "I wouldn't want to get hit with (it)" because then I'm going to ask "what would you want to get shot with". The truth is obviously "we don't want to get shot with anything".
I recall reading an article as a teenager... it was in one of my Daddy's old digests from when he was a teenager... there used to be (1860's-1900 or so) several companies making miniature .22short revolvers that weren't any smaller and probably not much bigger than today's NAA mini's with standard size grips.
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