Single stage press?

[scythefwd]

hags, what do you think of the ch tool and die presses? I have one that I got as a gift that is over 50 years old and it feels more solid than the rockchucker. It's action is also smoother and doesn't have any spots where I can feel it catch (could be just well broken in though).

 

[Landric]

I too would suggest the Lee Breech Lock Challenger kit. Its on sale as Midway right now:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productnumber=423081

In addition to the kit, at a minimum I suggest-

A manual, Lee's is cheap and has a lot of good info, but also some Lee propaganda that needs to be sorted through. Its still a great resource as a bargain price though:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productnumber=484416

and/or a Lyman Manual (more manuals are better, even in the age of the internet):

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=217655

or

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=277752

Extra breech locks for the press, you need one for each die to take advantage of the system, and the kit comes with three. So, if you have 4-die sets for both 9mm and .40S&W, you would need 3 additional packages, 2 additional packages if you go with 3-die sets. These also happen to be on sale right now:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productnumber=971565

9mm die set:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=885350

or

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=140349

A set of Calipers:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=604242

As for components, finding them locally is best if you are buying in small volume. I never, for instance, order less than 5k primers or 8# of powder online due to shipping charges. I prefer to order primers in 10k or larger lots. However, if you do decide to order online, here are some places to look:

www.powdervalleyinc.com
www.wideners.com

As for brass, don't buy new for 9x19 or .40S&W. There is plenty of once fired brass available online (Gunbroker and the various forums), and 9x19 should be less than $40 per thousand. Plus you can reuse it multiple times.

I understand wanting to keep you loads similar to defense ammunition, but loading a 125 grain lead bullet isn't going to make much difference over loading a 115 grain bullet in felt recoil or point of impact. You are welcome to spend the extra money on jacketed bullets if you want to, but I don't really see much of an advantage. Missouri Bullet is a great source for lead 9mm bullets. www.missouribullet.com

I like HS-6 for 9mm powder, but there are a lot of options. Titegroup, 231, the list goes on. You should easily be able to get 1000 rounds from almost any powder (per pound), and often quite a bit more.

As for the Lee bashing going on here, it seems to be either based on experience with the older Lee equipment (which was not so hot a lot of the time), or lack of personal experience. I have several colors on my bench, Red, Green, and Blue. I've had a Rockchucker II since 1994 when I started handloading. I still have it, but IMO the Lee Classic Cast is a better press than the RC II. Its just as strong, plus it offers a better spent primer catcher and better on press priming system than the RC. It was also about $60 cheaper.

 

[snuffy]

I have to disagree with the above poster, the RCBS Rock Chucker is the best single stage there is, Period.... If you can find one used, buy it and forget the rest.

Saying one press is better than any other severely limits your opinion. Have you ever touched a co-ax? Apparently not!

you can measure run out on a finished round from a Lee and one from a a Forster.
Let me know what you find.

I don't have to check the runnout from my co-ax, my lee classic turret produces zero runnout on .223 match ammo. Runnout has more to do with the quality of the brass, the fl and seating dies than the press.

Loadedround says;

Go with a RCBS or Redding press. Stay away from the Lee junk.

Is that a personal opinion, or personal experience? Or just brand bias? If from personal experience, which lee products failed you, and did you contact lee to see if they'd replace/repair them?

I recently broke the sprue plate cam lever on one of my 6 cavity lee molds. I took 2 pictures of the broken part, sent lee an email with the pics attached. I got a reply the next day saying the new part(s) were being sent out that day. The addition of the pics meant they could asses the problem and take quick action. I received TWO cam levers in the mail the next day,(lee is just down the road about 60 miles)!

 

[Atroxus]

Order bullets from Missouri Bullets as a starter. Order something middle of the road, such as 124-125gr in 9mm. They'll be tons of loading info on that weight range. THR users get a discount from Missouri, so do a search on "Missouri discount".

I have been giving it some more thought, and with how big of a price difference there is between the FMJ and the small ball ammo I have been thinking about going with missouri bullets after all. If I were to get used to shooting with 125gr ball ammo at the range would there be enough difference between that and my 115gr defense ammo to throw off my aim if I needed to defend myself and/or my family? My defense ammo is 115gr Speer gold dot, which would be fired from a Beretta FS92.

 

[rfwobbly]

Atroxus -
I can't believe you've beat this poor horse into a 3 page thread !!!


Here's the deal. Each pistol is going to react differently to different brands of ammo, and even different loads within the same ammo brand. So the only safe thing to do, before you stake your life or your family's life on it, is to try numerous (well at least several) types of SD ammo.

For instance, my son bought a beautiful little Makerov pistol. Really great power for the size. Comfortable. Inexpensive. Well made. It ate Wolfe and Winchester practice ammo without a hiccup. So we bought a box of Hornady self defense ammo and tried that before he started carrying. Good thing we did. The Hornady would not feed in that gun. Hornady is great ammo, some of the best you can buy. So it was the way the gun interacted with that ammo that caused the problem. And that's why you do feed testing.

Now with some brands, like Speer Gold Dot, you can get several weights in 9mm. So for instance, if you decide on Gold Dots, you'd want to shoot some of each weight Gold Dots, because the point of aim is going to be different with each weight. The recovery time is going to be different. The grouping is going to be different.

The only way to answer your question for sure is to test.

Hope this helps!

 

[JoelSteinbach]

I have a rockchucker in great condition am asking only $75. Also the RCBS baseplate for only $20.

 

[ranger335v]

"Would you guys be willing to comment upon the quality of the Hornady presses? Thanks. "

Hornady is good. Too. Fact is, ALL our presses of a given general design type are equal in most respects. That's what makes elitists sliming Lee so silly.

Anyone comparing a cast alum alloy frame press such as Lee's tiny Reloader and their older Challenger, the RCBS Partner and some of their older RS series, or even the current Hornady LnLs, etc, with massive cast iron or steel (Lee) presses is not being intellectually honest! But, any cast iron press, Redding, Forster, Lyman is fully the equal of the my RC. Lee's Classic Cast is superior because of it's cast steel construction, large opening - big enough to load .50 BMG, a spent primer catcher system that actually works and a fully adjustable lever design.

Any of us has a right to like what we like for whatever reason we choose. But none of us have a right to slime what someone else likes as "junk", and certainly not without any valid justification being given. (That kind of nonsense ruffles my feathers!) Nor should we attempt to guide others to buy/use our favorites if what we need is obviously different from what they will need. And there's a LOT of that kind of bad advice given on the web!

 

[Landric]

I have been giving it some more thought, and with how big of a price difference there is between the FMJ and the small ball ammo I have been thinking about going with missouri bullets after all. If I were to get used to shooting with 125gr ball ammo at the range would there be enough difference between that and my 115gr defense ammo to throw off my aim if I needed to defend myself and/or my family? My defense ammo is 115gr Speer gold dot, which would be fired from a Beretta FS92.

The short answer is no, it won't make much, if any, difference if you have to shoot in real life to defend yourself or your family. We are talking about a difference of ten grains here, not a huge thing. However, there is plenty of good 9x19mm defensive ammunition that uses a 124 grain bullet if it makes you more comfortable to use bullets closer in weight. I have a couple of Beretta 92 pistols, and I can't tell a difference in either point of impact or recoil with 115 and 125 grain loads.

In fact, given the much lower cost of Missouri Bullet's RN lead Smallball, you will probably be in a better position to use the gun in self-defense because you will have been able to afford more practice.

As an example, I use Missouri's Smallball 125 grain RN, Federal SP primer, Speer Brass, and 6.5 grains of HS-6. Average velocity is 1116fps, Average muzzle energy is 345 ft.-lbs. That is very close to what you can expect from a factory 115 grain 9x19mm (non-+P). Those figures are from my 4 1/4" Beretta 92D Centurion.

 

[Atroxus]

Atroxus -
I can't believe you've beat this poor horse into a 3 page thread !!!


Here's the deal. Each pistol is going to react differently to different brands of ammo, and even different loads within the same ammo brand. So the only safe thing to do, before you stake your life or your family's life on it, is to try numerous (well at least several) types of SD ammo.

For instance, my son bought a beautiful little Makerov pistol. Really great power for the size. Comfortable. Inexpensive. Well made. It ate Wolfe and Winchester practice ammo without a hiccup. So we bought a box of Hornady self defense ammo and tried that before he started carrying. Good thing we did. The Hornady would not feed in that gun. Hornady is great ammo, some of the best you can buy. So it was the way the gun interacted with that ammo that caused the problem. And that's why you do feed testing.

Now with some brands, like Speer Gold Dot, you can get several weights in 9mm. So for instance, if you decide on Gold Dots, you'd want to shoot some of each weight Gold Dots, because the point of aim is going to be different with each weight. The recovery time is going to be different. The grouping is going to be different.

The only way to answer your question for sure is to test.

Hope this helps!

I guess you could say I am a *little* tenacious. As long as I think there is more useful information to be squeezed from this thread though, I will keep flogging the corpse so to speak...after all no sense making a new thread when I am already subscribed to this one right?

I did decide to follow someones advice and post a notice at my work looking for people to mentor me in reloading, and/or go shooting with. I have a friend who was considering reloading as well, so I offered to let him learn with me as well once I get my equipment/reloading bench setup.

I did just realize that the table I had been planning to use as a reloading bench is probably not sturdy enough though. So now I am trying to decide between buying a work bench or trying to build one myself. I found instructions in another thread for building one at a cost of about $100 in materials. Although for me that number would likely be higher as I would have to buy a few tools that I don't yet own. If I can find a decent bench for not too much more expensive I would probably go that route though. Anyone happen to know where I could get a relatively inexpensive work bench? ($100-$200 range)

The short answer is no, it won't make much, if any, difference if you have to shoot in real life to defend yourself or your family. We are talking about a difference of ten grains here, not a huge thing. However, there is plenty of good 9x19mm defensive ammunition that uses a 124 grain bullet if it makes you more comfortable to use bullets closer in weight. I have a couple of Beretta 92 pistols, and I can't tell a difference in either point of impact or recoil with 115 and 125 grain loads.

In fact, given the much lower cost of Missouri Bullet's RN lead Smallball, you will probably be in a better position to use the gun in self-defense because you will have been able to afford more practice.

Cool, that is exactly what I was hoping to hear. I was hoping to not have to spend several hundred dollars again to purchase and test fire 125gr defense ammo, and replace the 100 rounds of ammo I have sitting near my bed already.

 

[psyop]

Try your local lumber yard or building contractor for a cut off Lamb Beam

They all keep the ends and never do anything with them. They are 2x4s' lamenated together. ....if you like cheap
I have one 20" x 120" 4" thick..
Make Super tops 4" thick..well 33/4 nowadays

 

[Landric]

I loaded on my parents old kitchen table from 1994 until last year when I got into loading rifle ammunition. I found a regular table sturdy enough for loading handgun, its when I started with the rifle stuff that I decided to build something more sturdy. Depending on what kind of table you have, it might be just fine to start out with.

It was a huge mess in this picture, but it still worked just fine.




I've since moved the huge majority of my handloading operation to a "man cave" in the climate controlled part of my detached garage. However, when I need to do something handloading related inside, its simply a matter of using my portable set up C-clamped to my desk or the kitchen table. Note the press is a Lee Breech Lock Challenger.

 

[psyop]

That is Beautiful.

I give you a lot of credit, I am not man enough to show my mess..lol

 

[Atroxus]

Oh cool, I was thinking I needed some burly steel frame 3/4 inc plywood topped behemoth of a work bench for some reason. I will give my table a shot, and maybe just try adding some bracing to it for added stability. Wish me luck.

 

[Landric]

That is Beautiful.

I give you a lot of credit, I am not man enough to show my mess..lol

That mess is the main reason my who works got moved to the garage. Now I have plenty of space, which means its somewhat less of a mess. Not really neat, but a lot neater than the above picture.

 

[rfwobbly]

Atroxus -
Squeeze away, buddy!

First look at Landric's table to learn an important lesson. There's a lot of tools and information needed in the reloading area. Landric has shown you a realistic photo of the general reloading bench top. It does require space, and as we all know... space is the final frontier.

There are several items which might be better if placed on a shelf 12-16" above the work top, then the work space need not be so deep. IMHO scales and reference books are all served better by a shelf. With a peg-board for tools behind that, you can actually reduce your work top space to the size of a card table.

On work benches, my advice is to first consider what you have before you react and spend any money. 1) Your ideas are going to change radically in the first year. 2) The table needs to be stiff, but only under the press. Obviously, spending the money to get a stiff table under the reloading manuals is foolishness. If you already have a pretty good work bench then maybe the simple insertion of a vertical 4x4 under the press is all you need. How expensive is that?

Please mail me the difference.

Hope this helps!

 

[Landric]

First look at Landric's table to learn an important lesson. There's a lot of tools and information needed in the reloading area. Landric has shown you a realistic photo of the general reloading bench top. It does require space, and as we all know... space is the final frontier.

Absolutely, this is a little dated picture (my bench has been reinforced under the presses since and the Breech Lock Challenger was moved to my portable set up in favor of a Classic Cast on the bench):

 

[rfwobbly]

I'm having a pshycic moment!

There are several items which might be better if placed on a shelf 12-16" above the work top, then the work space need not be so deep. IMHO scales and reference books are all served better by a shelf. With a peg-board for tools behind that, you can actually reduce your work top space to the size of a card table.

Jezz, Lou-ezze -
I'm leaving right now to buy lottery tickets. Can I see into the future or what?

 

[rfwobbly]

PS.

Landric -

That's it, buddy. The jig's up! You're user privileges are revoked for mixing red, green, and blue presses on the same bench !!

 

[Landric]

I know, how can I post that any color is best when I have all three!?!

 

[rfwobbly]

I see Lee, RCBS and Hornady dies, too. That's a clear violation.

 

[Landric]

At least one Lyman set too, plus at least one Redding. It gets worse though, since I took that pic I have gotten into casting as well. My lube-sizer is a Lyman, as are most of my molds!

 

[Matt Dillon]

+1 on the Lee Classic single stage press. If you lube it once in a while, it will outlast you!

 

[ranger335v]

"I am not calling anyone else's equipment JUNK, as I have never used anything other than RCBS. I can tell you that RCBS IS NOT JUNK! You get what you pay for."

Humerous. Someone speaking with zero experience with any color but green and knows not if anything else is it's equal - or better - and has no interest in learning. Interesting position, is it not?

Price is no indicator of anything's value. If it were we could simpy walk into any store to buy anything, pick out the most expensive and leave believing we just got the "best." Or, I could easily sell my house for twice it's current market value because that would mean it's more valuable than my neighbor's house, right?

No one has even suggested RCBS is junk. Nor Lyman, Redding, Forster, Hornady...only the blindly loyal RCBS crowd says that, and then only about Lee, with NO JUSTIFICATION GIVEN! Not anything honest anyway.

Lee IS NOT my favorite brand, but then nothing is my "favorite" across the board. I pick and choose what I buy because, with a wide range of experience with reloading tools, I know what features I want and who has them. Sometimes that means RCBS, sometimes any of the others.

When I do buy RCBS, new, and I do, I know I'm paying two or more times what it should cost. I get what I want, but I don't really get high value for my dollars do I? And for those high prices, I can get "free" repair parts? Okay, but they're not really "free" are they? And the other makers also have warrantees for valid claims, so .... isn't proclaiming that sorta pointless?

 

[psyop]

Hey...RCBS, I have sold many presses for you thru our Handloading Course over 10 years. Bragging up your quality, customer service and warranty.
However when one of our group opened up his new RC we found a porous casting and machining so poor it could only have been done in China, we had to reevaluate our loyalty.

WE WANT AMERICAN MADE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
American Castings
American Machining
American PRIDE in Workmanship
Most all presses sold now are LEE Classic Cast......Because after comparing presses this is what our students choose.

Demand American Made

 

[SteelyNirvana]

Ammosmith has done a nice review on the Lee classic turret press.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gM54KBOf4IY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRn_twi9B0g