Single Stage vs Turret press for beginners

[TheCracker]

Gloob,

I'm not here to argue with you. You don't have a turret, I do. I have a breech lock single stage as well. The turret is hands down faster.

Changing calibers is as fast as changing a single die on the breech lock and all dies are in place(so actually it's way faster). Once you have a established load using the the auto disk it is a matter of about 2 mins too to unscrew 2 brass screws and install the right disk. It IS easier to change on the auto disk than the perfect powder measure. Sone of your arguments of you assuming things that you admittedly have no experience with.

You can claim all the speed you want and I don't argue with your figures on each operation. But the real time saver is the fact that you don't have all the time handling brass by taking it off and on the shell holder.

I might concede that the autoprime is faster than the safety prime IF you are dealing with already sized brass and IF you were nit worried about cleaning primer pockets.

Bottom line: when one uses all of the functions of the turret press you put the case in the shell holder one time. The next time it comes off is when it is a completely loaded round. No way you can keep up on a single stage.

Also, yes seating and crimping really speeds you up on single stage. On the turret it might add 2-3 seconds to each round but that time is easily made plus some up for with not having to mess with a loading block and removing and reinstalling the case.

You might be the worlds fastest single stage loader but you would still be faster on a turret. FACT

 

[TheCracker]

Gloob,

I will admit that I made the last post before watching your videos. I'll also admit that you did come up with a faster system for reloading single stage than I did. I really liked your sizing system!

You do have some good shortcuts and reload faster single stage than me but when I'm on my turret you couldn't keep up. Also I believe the auto disk would throw a more consistent charge.

Give me a couple weeks and I'll post a turret vid on my YouTube channel.

I'll link it on this thread and even pm you.

 

[RustyFN]

300 rd an hour, umm, sorry. That doesn't include breaks, refilling your primer and component trays, or switching calibers/powder measure, etc.

Correct, as I said that is with sized and primed cases. If I load pistol and use the safety prime I can load close to 200 per hour. That includes loading the primer tray. I load it with 200 primers at a time so I only have to load it half as many times. I usually sit down for three hours and don't take a break until I'n done.

Most people I talk to load around 50 to 75 per hour on a single stage press. At close to 200 per hour I figured that's close to three times faster.

 

[GLOOB]

^ Yeah, np. That post was in response to TheCracker's post immediatel before it. Not yours. Anyways, while we're at it, you compared your output to mine, but failed to point out that you don't have to flare rifle ammo. Cheater.

I can see how a Classic Turret would be up to 3 times faster for some people. Depends on the actual SS press, ammo/crimp, sizing/priming method, and the operator. In my case, I can imagine a turret being up to twice as fast. But that increased output would come with a couple of downsides. If you're going to deal with those, how much harder would it be to deal with a full progressive? You already have the tool heads, priming system, and powder dispensers to futz with. With the progressive you're just adding a shell plate, at a minimum.

 

[Lost Sheep]

I went from Pro-1000 progressive to a Classic Turret.

Changing tool heads is equally easy on either press.
Changing primer sizes is MUCH easier with the turret.
Changing shell holders is MUCH easier with the turret.
Changing the powder measure is the same (as I used the Lee Auto-Disk, but with the spring return, not the chain)

I can change calibers on the turret as quickly as I can get the items out of where they're stored and involve no tools whatsoever. Changing calibers on the progressive is a bother. That's why I used to have a pair of them (one for large primer chamberings and one for small) and I decided to simplify even more by going to the turret.

If I loaded 500 rounds at a time of a single caliber, I might go for a progressive, but I don't, so it makes sense to me to dispose of my progressives.

The fact that the Lee Classic Turret handles its spent primers better and does not require the intense monitoring and tweaking the Pro-1000 does clinches it for me. I don't think I ever achieved much more than 150 rounds in an hour (though short spurts were faster, I am talking sustained output) with the Pro-1000. I am confident I can make 120 per hour on the turret safely and carefully.

I hope my viewpoint assists understanding

Lost Sheep

 

[hydraulicman]

sounds like the lee classic cast is a fine choice for you. I hear nothing but great things about the lee turret ( the classic cast ) but I have no experience with one.

 

[GLOOB]

Changing tool heads is equally easy on either press.
Changing primer sizes is MUCH easier with the turret.
Changing shell holders is MUCH easier with the turret.
Changing the powder measure is the same (as I used the Lee Auto-Disk, but with the spring return, not the chain)

Yeah, I hear that. I would already have a Pro 1000 if I had ONE caliber I primarily loaded for. But I'm thinkin I could get by with a luger/40 shellplate and just use it for those 2 calibers. If I only had a place to put it. My current bench cans barely handle a SS.

 

[evan price]

I run a Lee turret and pro-1000. It's nice to swap turrets between the two for working a small run of some oddball bullet or load testing. At first the Pro-1000 wasn't working fast for me, but you should learn smooth first, the speed will come. I do 300 per hour easy on the Pro1000 now.

BUT! The turret gets used for all my tall rifle ammo and load development. It's nicer than a breechlock single stage in that it's all setup, and I can do ONE round without changing anything, or many rounds if I choose. But it's my preference to do it that way.

 

[RandyP]

I too have the Lee breech lock single stage and their 4 hole Classic turret. Great machines, as are ALL other makes and models.

I count my rounds per hour output starting with a case fresh from the tumbler, with the fired primer in place and a full primer tray on my press. If you are starting with anything more prepared IMHO you really need to add all that case prep time to the total round count to get an accurate, honest number.

So when I say 50-75 per hour on the single stage and 150-175 per hour on the turret (which includes refreshing the primer tray), I have complete confidence in posting those numbers.

I try to never brand bash, heck if you reload on a Camdex EVERYONE else - including Dillon - makes cheap, slow junk - LOL

 

[RandyP]

I too have the Lee breech lock single stage and their 4 hole Classic turret. Great machines, as are ALL other makes and models.

I count my rounds per hour output starting with a unprimed case, fresh from the tumbler, and a full primer tray . If you are starting with anything more prepared IMHO you really need to add all that case prep time to the total round count to get an accurate, honest number.

So when I say 50-75 per hour on the single stage and 150-175 per hour on the turret (which includes refreshing the primer tray), I have complete confidence in posting those numbers.

I try to never brand bash, heck if you reload on a Camdex EVERYONE else - including Dillon - makes cheap, slow junk - LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCsUscgCDJ0&feature=related

 

[GLOOB]

Why would you start with the primer tray filled? That time counts for sure.

I'd go so far as to include the time of putting on the toolhead and setting up the powder dispenser. If you really only load one caliber/load, then you might as well have a progressive.

Starting from complete scratch, I have loaded about 125 rds in an hour, start to finish, on my SS press. This was with the dies still in the box, powder still in the can, primers still in their original packaging, charge still undecided and double checked online before charging the cases. That included a couple breaks, too.

That still isn't 175 an hour, but tell ya what. Next time I do it, I'll do exactly 100 rounds, and I WILL try to break a record. I'll post my time, here. It'll be .45 ACP, cuz that's all I have for reloading ATM. They're in the tumbler as we speak.

 

[RandyP]

The FANTASTIC thing about reloading in my own home is that I have NO critics of my process or output speed. Nor do I fret much over exactly how many rounds per hour I make. I am ONLY reloading during my FREE time. By my definition those are hours during which I am 'free' to do whatever the heck I feel like doing. Sometimes that is reloading but as infrequently as I shoot? It's not something I do every week.

 

[Funshooter45]

Well... what can I say? You and I are obviously just slackers. It's a wonder we make it out of bed most days.

 

[GLOOB]

I'm not criticizing. Just showing the difference between a turret and a single stage is not that great when you know what you're doing. The biggest difference is the auto powder throw, which is also one of its weaknesses in terms of changing between loads.

Anyhoo, just timed myself doing 100 rounds 45 ACP, start to finish. Starting with dies and shellholder in the box, bullets in the box, powder in the can, primers in the factory packaging, shells unsized with old primers still in, priming arm not installed.

32 minutes. 3:33 on the clock when I opened the die box. 4:05 when the last round was seated/crimped. Add 2 more minutes to put away all of the above.

It took less than 2 minutes to set everything up. Around ten minutes to size/prime. About 3 minutes to flare. About 16 minutes to charge and seat in 3 batches of 35/35/30.

My seating die was preset, but I did stop to test my flare. I didn't remember what type bullet I used last, jacketed or plated. And I stopped to fish a primer out of the tube when I accidentally dropped a live one down the chute. Got it. Finished with 99 good rounds, and 1 with a broken plating.

It works better when you size/prime/flare in larger batches, so even at a leisurely pace I believe I break 125 per hour, easy, over longer stretches.

 

[cfullgraf]

Why would you start with the primer tray filled? That time counts for sure.

I'd go so far as to include the time of putting on the toolhead and setting up the powder dispenser. If you really only load one caliber/load, then you might as well have a progressive.

Starting from complete scratch, I have loaded about 125 rds in an hour, start to finish, on my SS press. This was with the dies still in the box, powder still in the can, primers still in their original packaging, charge still undecided and double checked online before charging the cases. That included a couple breaks, too.

That still isn't 175 an hour, but tell ya what. Next time I do it, I'll do exactly 100 rounds, and I WILL try to break a record. I'll post my time, here. It'll be .45 ACP, cuz that's all I have for reloading ATM. They're in the tumbler as we speak.

My process agrees with your figures, GLOOB, although I include the time at the end to clean up, store ammo away, log in my records book and shut the light off.

I get about 100 rounds in the first hour on the single stage. A second hour increases the overall rate some as I am already set up when headed into the second hour.

As I have said, I can flip on the lights in my reloading room then flip them out an hour later with 100 rounds loaded.

 

[CraigC]

Anybody who thinks a turret is not quicker and more convenient than a single stage has obviously never used one.

 

[GLOOB]

They're obviously faster. More convenient? Depends on your needs. Because while they are a little bit faster, they come with tradeoffs.

I do dispute the 3-4 times faster claim. To be 3-4 times faster, you'd have to be able to make a completed round in the same time it takes to perform a single operation on a SS press. Obviously, only a progressive press can be 3-4 times faster than a SS. I have my doubts that a turret can even be twice as fast. But my time is posted. Hopefully someone will take a stab at the 100 rd 45 ACP Challenge with their Classic Turret and be man enough to post their time.

 

[LOLBELL]

I have two presses, a Lee and an RCBS, both are turrets. I have never timed myself, but I know I am not as fast as posted here. Some folks would even call me slow. I can, I think, load about 75-100 rounds per hour. What I like about the turrets is that I can keep 2 rifle and one pistol caliber set up without having to change anything but the powder throw which is RCBS. The Lee is an older three hole, I have 22-250 set up on it. The RCBS is a six hole I have a 270 and 44mag set up on it.

 

[RustyFN]

Anyhoo, just timed myself doing 100 rounds 45 ACP, start to finish. Starting with dies and shellholder in the box, bullets in the box, powder in the can, primers in the factory packaging, shells unsized with old primers still in, priming arm not installed.

32 minutes. 3:33 on the clock when I opened the die box. 4:05 when the last round was seated/crimped. Add 2 more minutes to put away all of the above.

That's a good time on a single stage. The main difference I see from your videos is it looks like you are loading at a rushed pace. I load at a relaxed comfortable pace and get close to 200 per hour. I know people that load on a classic turret at a rushed pace and load from 250 to 300 per hour. None the less 100 rounds in 32 minutes is impressive.

 

[springer99]

I'll give another vote for the Lee Classic Cast 4-hole turret, if you're mostly planning to reload pistol ammo. If you start with a single stage press, you'll end up spending twice as much time reloading over the turret, and gain nothing in terms of higher quality reloads. Using extra turrets with the dies pre-set, along with the Pro powder measure installed, it's also a snap to change calibers. Output of 175-200 per hour is easily managed without rushing.

By the way, I also use the turret to reload rifle cartidges, but then I just remove the auto indexing pin and use the press as a single stage. The only reason for doing that is that I've found the Pro powder measure doesn't normally dispense large enough powder charges; at least not for 30-06.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I own a Lee Classic 4 hole Turret Press and I can safely load 180-200 rounds an hour.

If you are worried about learning all you need to do is remove the auto-index rod and use your turret press as a single stage until you get the hang of things. You can also use the press as a single stage when loading rifle ammo like I do.

If you did buy a single stage press first and then buy a turret press I would keep the single stage for loading rifle ammo.

 

[TheCracker]

Turret Video

As promised here is the video of the Lee Classic Turret press utilizing all functions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iDGCObmFTk

As you will see I was able to completely load 25 rounds in 5 min 23 sec(actually loaded 26 but forgot the primer on one while I was talking). This is with me talking and even allowing for a couple quirks. I could easily keep up a pace of 25 rounds per 5 minutes not talking to the video camera. Below I will explore some math.

Best case:
25 rounds per 5 min = 300 rounds per hour

Worst case:
25 rounds per 5 min 30 sec = 273 rounds per hour

No these times dont include setup or adding primers (i usually load 200 primers at a time). It only takes 2 or 3 minutes to dump more primers in the saftey prime.

If you want to worry about set up times it took 6 minutes to clamp the press to my desk and get all the components loaded in the press/ready to load in the bowls. You could add about the same to pack it all up.

 

[RandyP]

Very nice video.

I realize you just did the low primer count in the dispenser for sake of the video for the demo. I know on mine I try to refill just when the circular primer dish is empty and before tha chute gets emptied. The Lee feed does like some gravity pressure from some primers working to keep the dispenser working well.

Even allowing for 10-12 minutes of setup/takedown time that would still be near 200 rounds per hour output at that pace.

I further stand by my notion that a turret is several times faster than a single stage. Not up to full progressive speeds, but I suspect most reloaders don't really 'need' high speed for their realistic shooting requirements.

 

[TheCracker]

Very nice video.

I realize you just did the low primer count in the dispenser for sake of the video for the demo. I know on mine I try to refill just when the circular primer dish is empty and before tha chute gets emptied. The Lee feed does like some gravity pressure from some primers working to keep the dispenser working well.

Even allowing for 10-12 minutes of setup/takedown time that would still be near 200 rounds per hour output at that pace.

I further stand by my notion that a turret is several times faster than a single stage. Not up to full progressive speeds, but I suspect most reloaders don't really 'need' high speed for their realistic shooting requirements.

Thanks!

Usually load 400 9mm at a time. I’ve never sat down with a stopwatch but I know it doesn’t take me a full 2 hours. It usually takes approximately an hour and a half from setup to take down, well maybe a 1:45 on a slower day. That’s starting with tumbled unsized brass that hasn’t been decapped.

I’ll stand by my numbers and can do that at a comfortable pace. I have my doubts that a person could keep up the pace of 100 SS rounds in 33 mins unless they are guzzling Red Bull or something. The pace on the video is comfortable and maintainable. I might get up once to take a wiz but it’s not like I need a 5 min break at work. I usually listen to Fox news radio through iTunes and crank away.

So I certainly agree that the turret is faster easier and certainly more convenient. Yes I said more convenient. You have a turret head with all dies preset, It takes all of 10 seconds to take it out of the press and another 10 to twist a new one in. Just as easy as chanhing dies in a breech lock press. The auto disk is WAY easier to change than a perfect powder measure and I believe more consistent than a dipper would ever be (since it would be easy to compact a scoop to get more powder and easy to not top it off the same way each time, esp if one was in a hurry)

 

[TheCracker]

Back to the OP's question:

When I decided to reload I had made my mind up to get the Classic turret after much studying. When I got to Cabelas they were out of the turret and the guy in the relaoding department talked me into the breechlock kit. I had already studied it and went ahead and bouht it. After a year or so with that I upgraded to the Turret and it was well worth it. I dont regret the SS breech lock since I still use it for my bolt gun loading but if you are only going to have one press and dont want to spend the money for a quality progressive like the dillon or hornady(and dont want to load multiple calibers) go with the Classic Turret. You can learn to load in single stage mode then later on out tine indexing rod back in and life will be much easier.