Turret presses vs single stage presses?

[jski]

In 2017 Lyman introduced a new turret press, the Brass Smith All-American 8-Station Turret Press replacing their venerable T-Mag Turret Press. On Midway it's priced at $199.99 (vs $189.99 for a MEC Marksman single stage press).

I have no experience with turret presses vs single stage presses and was wondering the advantages? Moving the turret around for every cartridge produced seems like a lot of work. BTW, the Redding turret press is priced at $319.99, the RCBS turret press is available for $239.99 from Midway.

 

[Milt1]

The single stage press is the slowest in terms of getting a finished product (loaded shell). The reason it's slow is that each stage of reloading (resize and decapping, expanding the case mouth and finally seating a bullet) requires a die change. So you're starting with your resizing and decapping die and you run all of your cases through it and then pull the resize and decapping die and screw in your expanding die and run all your cases through it and likewise with your seating die. The turret is somewhat faster! I have the Redding T-7 and I do the resizing and mouth expanding at one time. I run the case through the resize and then move the turret to my expander and run the case through it. I don't have to remove the case, nor dies, for these two operations as I just move the turret head. It's a little bit of work but I'm not removing and screwing in two different dies for the two operations. The same goes for my seating die as i just move the turret head to the seating die, no removing or screwing in the die itself. The main reason, other than economics, for using a single stage or turret in that the loader wants to ensure that each stage of reloading is carefully monitored. The progressive presses are much faster but loading isn't a speed contest. It all depends on what the loader wants to achieve.

 

[JimKirk]

I can change out any die in any order with the CoAx press almost as or as fast as a turret press ...

I have owned both type press ...plus others ...

 

[jski]

The single stage press is the slowest in terms of getting a finished product (loaded shell). The reason it's slow is that each stage of reloading (resize and decapping, expanding the case mouth and finally seating a bullet) requires a die change. So you're starting with your resizing and decapping die and you run all of your cases through it and then pull the resize and decapping die and screw in your expanding die and run all your cases through it and likewise with your seating die. The turret is somewhat faster! I have the Redding T-7 and I do the resizing and mouth expanding at one time. I run the case through the resize and then move the turret to my expander and run the case through it. I don't have to remove the case, nor dies, for these two operations as I just move the turret head. It's a little bit of work but I'm not removing and screwing in two different dies for the two operations. The same goes for my seating die as i just move the turret head to the seating die, no removing or screwing in the die itself. The main reason, other than economics, for using a single stage or turret in that the loader wants to ensure that each stage of reloading is carefully monitored. The progressive presses are much faster but loading isn't a speed contest. It all depends on what the loader wants to achieve.

Do you see the necessity of moving the turret around for every cartridge produced as a problem?

 

[mdi]

Turret presses shine when "batch loading". Size/deprime 100 cases, then index the turret, flare all the cases, then index the turret, prime, then index, charge then index, seat then index, crimp, then done...

I had a Lee turret and removed the auto index parts and hand indexed the turrets for the last 18 years I used it. I now have a Co-Ax which I believe is better than either single stage or turret (progressive reloading doesn't fit my life style so I don't even consider it)...

 

[jski]

Turret presses shine when "batch loading". Size/deprime 100 cases, then index the turret, flare all the cases, then index the turret, prime, then index, charge then index, seat then index, crimp, then done...

I had a Lee turret and removed the auto index parts and hand indexed the turrets for the last 18 years I used it. I now have a Co-Ax which I believe is better than either single stage or turret (progressive reloading doesn't fit my life style so I don't even consider it)...

"Index the turret"? Care to explain? Does this reduce the need to manually spin the turret?

 

[tranders]

I have the Lyman TMagII turret. It does speed up the process some,but if you had the Hornady quick change bushings on you dies you can change dies on a single stage press pretty fast. I personally see no point in 7 or 8 stations on a turret. I have never used all six stations on my Lyman.
I am seriously thinking about getting a progressive press for pistols and getting the Rock Chucker back on the bench for rifle.

 

[jski]

BTW, does anyone have any experience with Lyman's new 8-station turret press?

 

[tranders]

"Index the turret"? Care to explain? Does this reduce the need to manually spin the turret?

The Lee turret press has an auto indexing rod that after the handle has been pulled the turret spins when the handle is brought back up. He has taking out the indexing rod and manually turns the turret to the next station.

I had the Lee Classic Cast turret before getting the Lyman. It's a decent press for the money, I didn't care for how tight the tool head was when using other manufacturers dies and lock rings. When I say tight, I mean not much room to work with.

 

[fotheringill]

I kind of disagree with some of the above.

Get four or five more loading trays.

On a single stage press, do step 1 for 50 or 100 cases.
Then do step two for those same cases. How much time did it take to unscrew that first die and replace it with the second (assuming no c0-ax press)?
Then step 3 and others until you get to dropping your powder, weighing and then seating.
If changing that die takes longer than a good urination for a guy without a prostate condition, something is wrong.

 

[WrongHanded]

I have no experience with turret presses vs single stage presses and was wondering the advantages? Moving the turret around for every cartridge produced seems like a lot of work.

I only have experience with the Lee Classic Turret, which was recommended to me by many people on this forum as a good first press.

Currently, I reload for .45acp, .357 mag, .44 mag, and .45-70 GVT. As I mostly use the same projectiles for each of those cartridges, I don't have to adjust my dies. Each set of dies is installed in a separate turret head. I pull the current turret head off, put the appropriate one on (very easy), and the being the process. My powder measure is separate, which means I do not have to move it from one turret head to the next, only set it for the powder and weight I'm using for the load. But that does mean I have to pour the powder by hand, a bonus is that it's fast to check the weight on the scale because the powder goes directly from the powder measure into the scale pan (in my hand).

The auto indexing means that as the arm goes back up, the head rotates to the next die. I deprime/resize and reprime; the arm goes up and as I bring it back down the next die flares the case mouth and I pour the powder charge in through the hole in the die; cycle the head, put a bullet in the case mouth and seat it; cycle again and crimp. Then I pull the completed cartridge out and check it. Done.

Others apparently do this faster than I do, but at a relaxed pace I can run a complete setup and load a batch of rounds of pistol ammo in under and hour. Switching each die and complete one step of the process in a batch on a single stage press seems like it would take a while longer.

 

[ATLDave]

I kind of disagree with some of the above.

Get four or five more loading trays.

On a single stage press, do step 1 for 50 or 100 cases.
Then do step two for those same cases. How much time did it take to unscrew that first die and replace it with the second (assuming no c0-ax press)?
Then step 3 and others until you get to dropping your powder, weighing and then seating.
If changing that die takes longer than a good urination for a guy without a prostate condition, something is wrong.

A substantial part of the time-savings offered by a turret is in reduced brass handling, not just die installation. Picking the brass out of the tray, putting it into the shelholder, and putting it back in the tray to await the next step - that adds time on every single cartridge..

 

[ATLDave]

Currently, I reload for .45acp, .357 mag, .44 mag, and .45-70 GVT. As I mostly use the same projectiles for each of those cartridges, I don't have to adjust my dies. Each set of dies is installed in a separate turret head. I pull the current turret head off, put the appropriate one on (very easy), and the being the process. My powder measure is separate, which means I do not have to move it from one turret head to the next, only set it for the powder and weight I'm using for the load. But that does mean I have to pour the powder by hand, a bonus is that it's fast to check the weight on the scale because the powder goes directly from the powder measure into the scale pan (in my hand).

Oh, man, please give an on-press powder drop (such as the Lee Auto-Drum, which is quite good) a try. Setting aside max-charge loads and other things where even a .1 grain variance is cause for concern, dropping powder automatically is a HUGE time saver.

 

[fotheringill]

Dave- Isn't the drop by volume and not weight?

 

[ATLDave]

Dave- Isn't the drop by volume and not weight?

Yes. Similarly, your car's speedometer only measures tire rotation, not actual velocity. But in most circumstances, the two are extremely closely related!

For powders that "meter well," volumetric dispensing gets a very narrow weight window. Like +/- 0.1 grain.

 

[WrongHanded]

Oh, man, please give an on-press powder drop (such as the Lee Auto-Drum, which is quite good) a try. Setting aside max-charge loads and other things where even a .1 grain variance is cause for concern, dropping powder automatically is a HUGE time saver.

Thanks for the thought, Dave. Do you happen to know if it the Lee Auto-Drum will screw directly on to the Lee flare/powder-flow die in the Lee pistol die sets? Or do I need an adapter for that?

 

[ATLDave]

Thanks for the thought, Dave. Do you happen to know if it the Lee Auto-Drum will screw directly on to the Lee flare/powder-flow die in the Lee pistol die sets? Or do I need an adapter for that?

About 99% sure it just goes right into the flaring die. I think it comes with the drop actuator.

 

[ray15]

Thanks for the thought, Dave. Do you happen to know if it the Lee Auto-Drum will screw directly on to the Lee flare/powder-flow die in the Lee pistol die sets? Or do I need an adapter for that?

The Lee powder-through expanding dies accept the Auto-Drum directly, but many use the riser (which still goes by the name Auto Disk Riser, but is equally applicable to the Auto Drum) to gain die clearance. I have read of some using the Auto Drum on a LCT without the riser, but I don't see it as being very workable. I like being able to keep the measure attached to the riser and remove the riser from the die - it has real threads rather than the Fisher-Price arrangement on the Auto Drum itself.

 

[ATLDave]

Doesn't it come with the riser, though? Or did I have to order that as an extra? I have no memory of doing so... but it was a couple of years ago now.

 

[ray15]

Doesn't it come with the riser, though? Or did I have to order that as an extra? I have no memory of doing so... but it was a couple of years ago now.

No, it's sold separately, typically for $7.95. The only thing that includes it is the LCT kit, neither the LCT itself nor the Auto Drum do.

 

[ATLDave]

I got my LCT in a kit, but it came with the Auto-Disk, since that purchase predated the Auto-Drum. I then got an Auto-Drum when those came out and were getting glowing reviews. I still use both of them - the Auto-Drum lives on my Dillon, the Auto-Disk on my turret (though I may get another Auto-Drum).

OK, now I'm looking at the project page - I'm using it without a riser. And it does create clearance issues, except that there's a black wheel that can be used to tighten it down. So you can use it without the riser, but for $8 if I were ordering today I'd throw in the riser.

 

[cfullgraf]

I have no experience with turret presses vs single stage presses and was wondering the advantages? Moving the turret around for every cartridge produced seems like a lot of work. BTW, the Redding turret press is priced at $319.99, the RCBS turret press is available for $239.99 from Midway.

The advantage to a turret press is that you can install a couple sets of dies and not have to install them each time you use them. many forls that load a number of different cartridges will buy extra turrets and populate them with dies. Then, the only have to swap out the turrets and shell holder to change cartridges.

Like single stage presses, turrets do one operation at a time on one case. With a single stage press, the most efficient mode of operation is to batch process each step. Resize all your fired cases, change the die, expand the case mouths on all the cases, clean (maybe), prime all your cases on or off the press, charge all the cases with powder, and then seat the bullets.

You can operate a turret the same way, you just do not have to swap dies in and out, just rotate the turret. Some folks leave a case in the press and perform a couple operations by rotation the turret before removing the case.

Historically, turret presses have been more expensive than single stage. I could never see enough, if any, improvement in efficiently of a turret press over a single stage so I'd rather use the difference in cost between the two presses to buy some other reloading goodies.

The new Lyman press at $200 makes it competitive with good single stage presses so it may make it an attractive choice.

Bottom line, though, the choice of turret or single stage is more what fits the individual's method of reloading.

Finally, The Lee Classic turret press is a different animal with it's auto indexing feature. While it still takes one stroke of the handle for each operation, the auto index feature moves the dies around after each operation. It speeds up the reloading processing a bit. Generally, with the lee Classic turret, folks will complete the reloading operation on a single case before moving to the next case as opposed to the batch processing that is done on a single stage press.

Clear as mud, I'm sure.

 

[Capt.Roll]

A substantial part of the time-savings offered by a turret is in reduced brass handling, not just die installation. Picking the brass out of the tray, putting it into the shelholder, and putting it back in the tray to await the next step - that adds time on every single cartridge..

I agree. I reloaded for a year using a single station press. It was no big deal to change the dies as I moved from step to step. I purchased a Lee Classic Turret a year ago. Where I find my time savings is in four times less handling. I can easily do 150 to 200 round per hour; that is with checking every 10 to 12 rounds to verify grains of powder charge and COL on the finished round.

I do use the Lee Auto Drum powder measure on top of the case mouth expanding die. Rarely do I get any more variation than +/- 0.1 grains. Most of the time i I'm seeing 0.05 grains variance.

 

[thomas15]

Thank goodness we were able to salvage this thread, get it on track. For a while it looked like Lee was going to lose a sale!

 

[Milt1]

Do you see the necessity of moving the turret around for every cartridge produced as a problem?

If I'm moving my turret head, after resizing, to the expanding die it only moves one and 1/2 inches but you are moving it back and forth for each shell to complete two operations. After these two operations are complete and you move to the seating die, that die stays in place until you seat every shell. I'm 76 and having to move the turret doesn't bother me as its well greased and moves easily. I don't see having to move the turret as a problem because I researched turrets and progressives at length before I decided to buy the Redding. My thought process was when I bought that I wanted to control every step to make it as accurate as possible and I didn't want to do it on a single stage or a progressive press. You have to research and decide what's best for you.