Sissy Nation? (huge rant)

[Joe Demko]

Sean Smith,
I missed nothing from your post, sirrah. You are a self-righteous boor blatting about how soft those people are from your own position of safety. The fact that you dressed up in green at some time doesn't overwhelm me. Since you aren't sacrificing anything in particular of which I am aware, it seems to me that you are a tad too willing to tell everyone else to have a stiff upper lip. Good day to you.

 

[BigG]

Sean (I think) is talking about the couch potatoes sucking up the news back here and getting disillusioned that it don't happen as fast as a playstation game; not the troops who are doing their best out on the line.

 

[longeyes]

I don't think the real problem, if there is one, is that Americans at home are "too soft" but that Americans running this war are "too compassionate," worried overmuch about political appearances and misplaced notions of high-morality combat while real American kids are facing bullets and chemicals. Perhaps we need, or our leaders need, to "liberate" our minds from such comforting illusions and get on with winning by using what makes us militarily superior. We can demonstrate our rectitude and humanitarianism when all the guns are silenced.

 

[OF]

Well said, Sean. The media hand wringing and the general whining in the population is making me sick. Show some spine. The families of dead soldiers and POW's the media is putting on the tube, who have actually lost their sons and daughters, have more spine and class than the freaking talking heads.

We are all adults here and I doubt there is alot of confusion on what the word 'dead' means.

Welcome to planet earth, CNN.

We are watching a historic event. This is going to change the face of warfare on this planet. The bar has been raised. The stakes are high.

- Gabe

 

[twoblink]

Someone back me up here..

I venture to say; as I type this; today, more gang members have died in LA then in the war. I say it with confidence, and I'm almost positive I'm right.

Wars are not pretty; if they were; they'd be called parades!!

Somebody needed to say it. I for one, think anything under 3000, and 3 weeks, meant a girl scout fight..

Someone had to say it. I can't believe how they went about saying "We lost a few!!" It's war, people die... Sad, sucks, POW's will go threw hell, but it's true... God bless them, and..

Just needed to say, they've at least got 1 person supporting them in Taiwan..

 

[Sean Smith]

Sean (I think) is talking about the couch potatoes sucking up the news back here and getting disillusioned that it don't happen as fast as a playstation game; not the troops who are doing their best out on the line.

Bingo. Was that so hard to understand?

Golgo-13 can put words in my mouth all he wants about my bashing combat troops and widows , but that doesn't make any of it make the least bit of sense.

ANOTHER HINT: with the sacrifice of (very little) life, has come spectacular successes. How does the media, and some people here, downplaying what their sacrifices accomplished with all this "woe is us" talk, do anything to honor them?

The fact that you dressed up in green at some time doesn't overwhelm me.

You, of course, have no reason to know anything about my prior service. I'd suggest you not comment on things about which you are perfectly ignorant. I won't comment on this topic any further.

 

[M1911]

Yes, casualties have been relatively light so far.

That doesn't stop me from being worried sick about my best friend's eldest son, Christopher, who is in the 101st. Christopher has helped me build garden beds, helped his dad rebuild our soffits and gutters, and fed our cats while we were on vacation. He's a good kid rapidly turning into quite a man. Last I spoke with his parents, they still hadn't heard from him since he deployed. I've sent him a couple care packages, but who knows whether or not he's received them. If that makes me a sissy, so be it.

Our casualties have been light, but each and every one represents incredible sacrifice by the soldiers, their families, and friends.

 

[D_Burchfield]

longeyes,

That was well said.

Sean Smith does have a point in that some "blissninnies" are whining about a very small percentage of casualties.

Most of the military people running this operation have not participated in a "REAL WAR" up until this point. Considering that a typical military career has a duration of 20-30 years, there may be only a few in the top ranks who experienced action in Vietnam. They should set aside their political notions and complete the job at hand by using all and every means at their disposal.

Kick some serious butt!!

Just my $.02

 

[Intune]

Graphic from Fox News last night

Casualties from various wars:

WWI- 1 in 15
WWII- 1 in 15
Korea- 1 in 13
Vietnam- I am not positive but I think it was back to 1 in 15
Gulf War - 1 in 1,500

Some are so accustomed to seeing "movie" war via a videotape or DVD in which a conflict is begun and resolved in two hours or less that our nonetheless astounding results in the last five or six days begins to stretch their focus and patience. It may be misplaced but I have faith in the American people seeing this war through to its inevitable conclusion. DESPITE the best efforts of CNN and their sister network Al Jezeera to undermine our resolve.

I too have served. When one joins the combat arm of our military one of the first things you had better resolve before taking that step is a willingness to die for your country. My sister or mom's grief over that potential death was not part of the equation. Selfish? Perhaps. My oldest brother got killed after serving two tours in Vietnam. The fact that his Braniff airline flight plowing into Arkansas soil coming home from Ft. Hood was the cause of his death as opposed to a combatants hand did nothing to mitigate or alleviate the pain we felt as a family upon learning of his death. A senseless or needless death is a waste. Dying for a valiant cause brings honor to ones self in addition to family. Perhaps I am just old fashioned.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

It's Attack of the Body Snatchers

And I'm Don Sutherland!
Suddenly almost everyone has become the Kings drones with no outside the box thought allowed.
If my sources are correct both pipelines in Iraq have been secured by the Brits which is appropriate since they do have the world monopoly on oil.
Does anyone recall the events leading to the Brit oil wells in the waters of Vietnam?
Anyone remember the movie Lawrence of Arabia?
Has anyone studied the Euru-Russian oil routes that we have effectively blockaded in Bosnia, Afganistan and now Iraq?
As American we're spoon fed the images of always being the good guy in the white hat and to root for the underdog that's attacked by the big bad bully. Any wonder people are a tad confused?
If in fact the northern and southern pipelines have been secured why continue to assault a city of five million souls that's already burning?
Using our Presidents alleged reasons for attacking Iraq can we as gun owners and CCW holders blow away anyone we deem as a possible threat?
Best,

 

[DeltaElite]

I am deeply saddened by the loss of each and every allied soldier and my heart goes out to their friends, families and colleagues.

I do agree that some folks are considering small numbers of soldiers killed to be "significant setbacks" to the war.
They are not, but they are no less tragic of a loss.

 

[pax]

Good discussion so far, but needs a little reminder.

From the forum rules:

4.) Spamming, trolling, flaming, and personal attacks are prohibited. You can disagree with other members, even vehemently, but it must be done in a well-mannered form. Attack the argument, not the arguer.

If you need to insult each other, take it to PM or email. Don't inflict it on the rest of us.

pax

It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather, we should thank God that such men lived. -- George S. Patton, Jr

I have seen war. I have seen war on land and sea. I have seen blood running from the wounded. I have seen men coughing out thier gassed lungs. I have seent he dead in the mud. I have seen cities destroyed. I have seen 200 limping, exhausted men come out of line -- the survivors of a regiment of 1,000 that went forward 48 hours before. I have seen children starving. I have seen the agony of mothers and wives. I hate war. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt

 

[cuchulainn]

Anyone remember the movie Lawrence of Arabia?

Yeah! We'd better email CENTCOM leaders to make sure they know not to advance our troops and horses on 35 MPH 19th-Century steam trains lest Peter O'Toole and Omar Sharif blow up the tracks!

 

[Shalako]

Using our Presidents alleged reasons for attacking Iraq can we as gun owners and CCW holders blow away anyone we deem as a possible threat?

This one falls a little short. Its more like the FBI have rated this guy as public enemy number one and the LEO types can shoot to kill. Not just Joe Blow with a itchy trigger finger. Think about it.....

As for Sean's rant, I greatly appreciate that there are still thinkers like this in America and especially on this board. If there weren't..... the remainder of the nation would be a bunch of whimpering ninnies ready for domination by the next bully to round the corner.

 

[Intune]

"As American we're spoon fed the images of always being the good guy in the white hat and to root for the underdog that's attacked by the big bad bully. Any wonder people are a tad confused?"

Intune- Just the ones that don't understand that the Iraqi people are the underdog to Sad Damn's bullying. I'm pleased that you get it.


"If in fact the northern and southern pipelines have been secured why continue to assault a city of five million souls that's already burning?"

Intune- It's about liberating a people, not their oil. The only burning going on in Bagdad is the oil trench fires set by these geniuses which is doing nothing but poisoning civilians. Not that his regime needs the practice. IF it were about oil and not this despicable creatures demise, we would stop. But we won't and I for one think that's a GREAT thing!


"Using our Presidents alleged reasons for attacking Iraq can we as gun owners and CCW holders blow away anyone we deem as a possible threat?"

Intune- Sure, when they are killing your family through starvation, shredders, gas and bullets, I would think one would be remiss to sit idly by in the face of these atrocities when armed and able to stop it.

 

[Monkeyleg]

Jeff White, you're right. I'm a fast typist (or at least I type faster than I think ).

I'll stand by the intent of my statement, though, which is that the letter-writer is an idiot. If we can win with fewer casualties on our side by using these weapons, that's good. And if, in the process, we can minimize civilian casualties, that's even better.

 

[MeekandMild]

Since WWII Air Force training death rates for flying officers from first takeoff to placement with an operational unit have run (ballpark figures) between 1% and 2%. Operational death rates have run as high as 80% in some squadrons, with rates above 50% in many squadrons, most notably the heavy bombardment groups of WWII.

So we are doing pretty durn good in comparison for this war for the Air Force casualties at least.

Air Force enlisted troops have had better living conditions than other services as a rule. This is with the exception of enlisted flight crewmen.

 

[Tamara]

Air Force enlisted troops have had better living conditions than other services as a rule. This is with the exception of enlisted flight crewmen.

This is because Air Force enlisted men (and Navy carrier crews) have figured out that the civilized way to fight a war is to sit back, sip coffee, and throw officers at the enemy.

 

[Peetmoss]

I know war isn't pretty. I have seen my uncles GSW in the chest from Vietnam and my father at the wall picking out names of kids he went to school with from the wall.

I have nothing but respect for all our soldiers. I also feel for every soldiers family. Most of all the families of the dead soilders and the captive soilders.

My only hope is that the Goverment doesn't waste the lives of our sons and daughters for political reasons. Once the president makes the decision to go to war he should let the military make the decisions not the politicians. Politicitions kill soilders for what people think that day.

Soilders will die I hope it's alot more theres then ours.

 

[pax]

Tamara,

May I steal that for my files?

pax

The next best thing to being clever is being able to quote someone who is. -- Mary Pettibone Poole

 

[MeekandMild]

This is because Air Force enlisted men (and Navy carrier crews) have figured out that the civilized way to fight a war is to sit back, sip coffee, and throw officers at the enemy.

HAR! The quote of the Month!!!

Not quite true, however. One of my kids was on a carrier during the last Iraqui war. His bunkroom had 30 sailers, each one who was allowed to spend 8 hours per day in the bunk. There were three shifts in a room with 10 bunks. Try to get ten minutes more sleep and you/re liable to get thrown oout into the hall.

 

[cuchulainn]

I heard a report that confidence in the war still is high, though fewer people think it will be over quickly. I think it was a Gallup poll. Maybe someone else can find a link.

Tamara, great quip!

 

[trapshooter]

Air Force enlisted men (and Navy carrier crews) have figured out that the civilized way to fight a war is to sit back, sip coffee, and throw officers at the enemy.

Tamara, I really needed that line years ago when I hung out with ground-pounders and Air Force types.

On a more serious note:

Caualties bad. Winning good.

We honor our dead by winning, not by whining.

The people (troops) I have seen interviewed on the ground in Iraq are impressive, and support my faith that free countries can still provide such men and women. They are, uniformly across the spectrum (US, UK, AUS, Poles, etc.), as good as thier brethren that went before. In some cases, better. This has nothing to do with toadying up to the party line. They are good soldiers, and have done and continue to do, an outstanding job. We should quit whining and pay them thier due.