Good grief X-Rap and Gus McCrae...did you both not read the entire thread. You both seem to want to brag about your self proclaimed prowess with firearms. Safety card? Hell yes...no matter how important either of you think you are it is all about safety. The genesis of this discussion is about safety. Only fools fire unless they know and can see thier targets. Do either of you really wish to argue that? I am ex-military. I am ex-LEO. I would advise anyone reading this thread to totally dismiss X-Rap and Gus McCrae because neither of them seem to have ever been the real thing. Shooting at anything without being able to identify your target is not only foolish it can lead to a criminal conviction. That this internet forum would allow such foolishness is amazing to me. I am a ex-LEO. My wife is still a practicing Federal agent. Never, ever, shoot at anything without first seeing your target. Do NOT listen to idiots who tell you it is okay to fire a weapon without seeing your target.
SKS 420 yard shots
- Thread starter sharpshooter74
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Justin
Moderator Emeritus
Wait, so what you're saying is that if you get into a position, line up on target, then focus your eye on the front sight, and adjust your hold in order to compensate for the bullet drop at a given distance, you're being unsafe?
Please explain this.
Also, please address the points in my previous post. If Gus is unsafe in his firearms handling, perhaps you'd care to explain why he was not pulled off of the line and disqualified at the match he participated in?
Please explain this.
Also, please address the points in my previous post. If Gus is unsafe in his firearms handling, perhaps you'd care to explain why he was not pulled off of the line and disqualified at the match he participated in?
Now it appears a moderator of "THE HIGH ROAD" is advocating shooting a firearm without being able to see your target. I'm sure the NRA would be real proud of this moderator also. Just another amateur who should not be listened to. This forum is sinking fast with such irresponsible behavior and advice. It is also liable. None of these guys are professionals in any way, shape or fashion. Do not listen to them. Shooting firearms at targets without being able to see what you are shooting at is not only reckless it is criminal.
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
So, what you're saying is that any time you shoot an iron-sighted firearm, both the front sight and the target are in perfect focus?
That any time you shoot at a target at a distance further/closer than what you zeroed it for that you do not hold high/low?
I find it quite curious that you would claim that techniques that are considered to be fundamental basics of marksmanship are somehow unsafe.
Please, enlighten us further.
That any time you shoot at a target at a distance further/closer than what you zeroed it for that you do not hold high/low?
I find it quite curious that you would claim that techniques that are considered to be fundamental basics of marksmanship are somehow unsafe.
Please, enlighten us further.
X-Rap
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I went back and read all over and the only thing I see is someone painting themselves into a corner one keystroke at a time.
The notion that safety cannot be achieved unless the target is setting directly atop the front post is pure bull.
With a good backstop and clear range this kind of shot is perfectly safe although maybe a waste of ammo. t, you make it sound as though the guy was lobbing rounds over the top of a hill into a school yard.
My position stands, the guy in the video is doing nothing spectacular and his method of sighting is well within the abilities of an average shooter and safe.
The notion that safety cannot be achieved unless the target is setting directly atop the front post is pure bull.
With a good backstop and clear range this kind of shot is perfectly safe although maybe a waste of ammo. t, you make it sound as though the guy was lobbing rounds over the top of a hill into a school yard.
My position stands, the guy in the video is doing nothing spectacular and his method of sighting is well within the abilities of an average shooter and safe.
RevolvingGarbage
Member
Am I the only one who simply sets the front sight post on the target and then, hinging the rifle at the front sight, lowers the rifle to create the nessicary ballistic arc?
I mean you guys are talking about sighting on a far away target as though it were one at ~50 yards, then raising the rifle with the hingepoint being the butt of the rifle, so that you are aiming the sights at an estimated distance over a target? Correct?
I mean you guys are talking about sighting on a far away target as though it were one at ~50 yards, then raising the rifle with the hingepoint being the butt of the rifle, so that you are aiming the sights at an estimated distance over a target? Correct?
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
t165, what are your marksmanship qualifications?
Are you a ranked Service Rifle, National Match, CMP, Bench Rest, or Silhouette shooter?
Perhaps you'd care to enlighten us as to where you've placed at any of the regional or national-level 3Gun matches such as Rocky Mountain 3 Gun, Superstition Mystery Mountain, Fort Benning, Iron Man, DPMS Tri-Gun challenge, or any other match?
If I'm so unsafe, perhaps you'd care to explain this to the match directors of the matches I've been to? I can provide you with contact information if you like.
Are you a ranked Service Rifle, National Match, CMP, Bench Rest, or Silhouette shooter?
Perhaps you'd care to enlighten us as to where you've placed at any of the regional or national-level 3Gun matches such as Rocky Mountain 3 Gun, Superstition Mystery Mountain, Fort Benning, Iron Man, DPMS Tri-Gun challenge, or any other match?
If I'm so unsafe, perhaps you'd care to explain this to the match directors of the matches I've been to? I can provide you with contact information if you like.
Yes, we are talking about holding the front sight over the top of the target to estimate elevation (hold over) rather than adjust the rear sight. In a match setting with targets at different distances this is easier and faster than adjusting your sights for 5 different targets at 5 different ranges.
Read the posts again. I believe 50 to 70 inches is mentioned. The only people painting themselves into a corner is you and JUSTIN! Shooting at targets you cannot see is WRONG. I have seen what happens when "idiots" do such things. Argue all you want. I'll never back down. You and JUSTIN are not professional lawmen. You have never been. You will never be. There is not one single law enforcement agency or domestic firearm manufacturer who will back you on this. I'm surprised "The High Road" would even allow this JUSTIN fellow to be a moderator on this forum after the foolish and irresponsible dribble he is now spewing about just elevating a firearm and firing without being able to see your target. He should be replaced before "The High Road" gets sued for his stupid advice.
X-Rap
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No what I said was take a shot with the sights dead on, note the impact distance below the target and compensate with a higher point of aim.
Very little guessing if you have decent perception of distance.
Using the battle sight to its full advantage would as you say would mean lowering the butt and keeping the post on target.
We are talking about compensation/hold over.
Very little guessing if you have decent perception of distance.
Using the battle sight to its full advantage would as you say would mean lowering the butt and keeping the post on target.
We are talking about compensation/hold over.
Anyone who feels froggy then just call the federal authorities on me. I live in Indiana and you can just call the Indianapolis Federal Building. When the Agents get the call they can stop by my wife's office and we can all have a good laugh on you! I'll make sure they know the idiot who called thinks shooting at targets blindly is the mark of a good rifleman. Boy, this forum is sinking fast.
As a former Colorado State Trooper, left of my own accord on good terms with the Patrol, I would love to know what your credentials are. You say your were military. Great, what branch and what mos? You say you are former LEO, great, who did you work for? If you are going to make statements to the effect that you know better than us, please provide your training and experience.
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
Thankfully one doesn't need to be in law enforcement to understand basic physics.
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
How odd, I see nothing in that document that says anything about your qualifications with a rifle.
However, as long as we're posting documents that have nothing to do with the topic at hand, here's mine:
That said, I know there aren't a lot of long-distance rifle ranges in Indiana. Perhaps you've shot some High Power matches at Red Brush Rifle Range or Wild Cat Gun Club?
However, as long as we're posting documents that have nothing to do with the topic at hand, here's mine:
That said, I know there aren't a lot of long-distance rifle ranges in Indiana. Perhaps you've shot some High Power matches at Red Brush Rifle Range or Wild Cat Gun Club?
X-Rap
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t Those credentials have squat to do with your experience, love or knowledge of the shooting sports of firearms.
There is a great percentage of armed professionals who have no clue about firearms other than what they are taught about their carry weapon. You sir are proving that point.
There is a great percentage of armed professionals who have no clue about firearms other than what they are taught about their carry weapon. You sir are proving that point.
Perhaps "The High Road" staff needs to know they have a moderator who advocates shooting at targets even when they cannot see them? What you are advocating is foolish and just plain wrong. I'm saving all of your comments. I'm going to forward them to all of the major publications. You are just plain wrong. Read this thread from the start. The video shows a man shooting a SKS at a very elevated angle without being able to see the front sight. How in gods name can you or this forum advocate this? I may be getting a bit angry over this but damn...that is not a safe practice. A little hold over in the field or target shooting is one thing but this is dangerous. It should not be promoted by "The High Road".
glockgod
Member
Excellent film!! Do the research on the rear sight settings on an SKS. At the 5 minute mark You can see the rear sight is in the "battle" position. This setting will get you hits on a torso sized target out to 300 meters. This "battle" setting is the one I use most. You just need to remember to aim for the go-nads between 100-200 yards or so to get good hits. If I could see a target at 420 yards I'd try it. Hell-sounds like fun!!!!
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
OH NOES! Would you also like me to forward the contact information for all of the match directors for the major matches I've attended? No doubt they would be happy to receive a heads up about an unsafe shooter who wishes to attend their competitions.
In the video, he appears to be quite capable of seeing the front sight.
From the video, it's quite apparent that there is ample back stop to contain the bullets, and that he's doing a decent job of putting the rounds at least in the general vicinity of the target. I fail to see what is unsafe about this?
Who here besides me has ever been at the scene of a firearm related accident where a person lost their life. No bull****...tell the truth. All I have been saying for the last three hours is to not shoot blindly. Make sure of your target. I have seen the devastation of these type accidents. I know I am coming off a bit hard but...
damnit...I just hate to see anyone else get hurt and see people cry because of firearm foolishness. I cannot make people listen to me. Perhaps I am just a fool to try. Shooting at anything whe you cannot see your target is not safe under any circumstances.
damnit...I just hate to see anyone else get hurt and see people cry because of firearm foolishness. I cannot make people listen to me. Perhaps I am just a fool to try. Shooting at anything whe you cannot see your target is not safe under any circumstances.
rbernie
Contributing Member
This has nothing to do with holdover. In order to shoot at the target, you must first acquire it and verify that it is your target and that it's safe to shoot. Having done that, if the target is beyond the PBR of the weapon then hold-over must be used to correct for the trajectory.
Suggesting that holdover equates to not having adequately ensured the safety of the shot is just silly and should be more than a bit embarrassing.
And the video is redacted. My god! Some people will believe anything. I understand all members of "The High Road' are not mensa but an IQ test should be performed on the moderators. Like PT Barnum said "there is one born every minute". The video is redacted JUSTIN "REDACTED". Do you understand what that means JUSTIN. I know you are not law enforcement or federal agent qualified but this is really simple stuff.
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