Sling or No for HD Shotgun?

[Soap]

HS/LD-

Use of sights is a primary concern when engaging in a gunfight not a secondary concern.
Using the sights = primary.
Making sure that my sling is looped over my pinkie = secondary.

My point is that things in muscle memory are not "concerns" at all. They just happen automatically because of one's amount of training. I recall reading an incident that involved Mr. Lucibella around election time...his reactions were completely automatic. After action, he said that he didn't consciously think about certain things at all, he just did them.

Have you had any quality training with firearms? While I am not an instructor, and what FEELS right for one might not feel right for another, this seems to me like you are know compromising your secondary weapon. It would be much better to drop the SG and use with 100% focus your pistol.

You've been questioning the amount of training that everyone else has but yet you come off like you think you're an experienced high speed low drag operator...which may or may not be true, but I don't bother to ask since I would rather discuss a technique instead of getting into a contest where we show each other how many hours of training we have had. BTW- The technique is from Thunder Ranch's Shotgun video.

As for clearing my OWN HOME the only one with a death wish is the intruder.

While it may be fun with 10 of your best buddies or on a computer game, clearing out a home is no joke and not something that you can cowboy through. Like Awerbuck says, fighting is a thinking man's game.

You mean to tell me if you hear a bump in the night you will quickly hop behind the bed, aim your SG at the door and dial 911, and hope that the LEOs have death wishes so that they will come in to save you?

I probably wouldn't aim my shotgun at the door (Rule #4 and all...), but yeah that's exactly my plan. No everyone here is a Selous Scout or a SEEL. My primary concern is the safety of myself and my wife, going out to play mall ninja would simply jeoparize both of us.

A while ago I heard a bump that sounded like it came from the rear of my house at ground level (I sleep on the second floor) I wandered down to check it out (SG in hand) and found it was simply the local tom cat try to get the attention of my wife's cat... What would you have done called the SWAT team?

I would only call 911 if the sound that was heard was a sound associated with someone breaking into my home.

Keep it all as simple as possible. The "Gelhaus pinkie technique" will work sure, is it the best for the average Joe that practises once a month if that. No the potential to catch the sling is too great.

IMO, that is insulting to Erick. Stop calling it the "Gelhaus pinkie technique". Your ignorance of the technique simply shows that you haven't the slightest idea of the techniques of the various instructors inside the U.S. As for the average Joe, I don't care about the average Joe nor do I care about his laziness. I only care about the best techniques.

It’s just my opinion I would never be so arrogant as to presume that what I think should apply to everyone.

I have no problem with someone buying a Lorcin .25, never shooting it, and keeping it as a night stand gun. I don't care what others do. I don't care what you do. But I do care about revealing which techniques hold merit and which ones don't. I don't get into discussions unless I think I may be able to learn something from it. Unfortunately with many, that is not the case.

 

[HS/LD]

Edited, same reason as above.

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

since i find it difficult to use the phone to call 911 and hold a shotgun at the same time, i prefer the use of a sling.

count that among my preference for the mini 14 over the ar-15, the enfield over the mauser and the mossberg over the 870 as things that make me a horrible person.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I have a setup sling I really like. It is not so much for carrying the shotgun as keeping control of it. The sling mounts to the butt end sling mount and then to a GG&G receiver end plate (between receiver and stock) sling mount. So, there is no sling forward of the receiver to get entangled with the pump or get in the way. Simply, the sling is looped over from the right shoulder and then under the left arm (for right-handed shooting). The purpose of the sling is for weapon retention. Should something happen and the shotgun gets grabbed, it cannot be turned on the wearer with the exception of the wearer's feet. Other than the feet, the muzzle physically can be turned on the wearer.

One other really nice aspect about this setup is that it is not complicated like a Giles sling. There is ONLY ONE strap and so you don't have to be fully awake to get it on properly and without any strap forward of the receiver, nothing to get entangled. I have read of folks trying to pump a shotgun, but found the carry strap between their hand and the pump and not be able to pump that way.

On the down side, my setup is not made for long term carrying of the gun. If you drop it, it goes to a muzzle down position. If you are carrying a strong side sidearm, it will be completely clear of the dropped shotgun and can be readily drawn. I would not, however, want to try running with a shotgun pointed down and swinging between my legs. But for a home defense setup, I am more worried about ease of use and retention than transitioning to a sidearm. Chances are I will not be wearing my sidearm should I need the shotgun in the middle of the night. I don't wear the sidearm 24/7 like some strange folks.

 

[Soap]

Andrew,

You sir, are obviously not tactical

 

[Duke of Lawnchair]

count that among my preference for the mini 14 over the ar-15, the enfield over the mauser and the mossberg over the 870 as things that make me a horrible person.

YOWZA, you gotta quit being your baaad self!

 

[Soap]

Just to clarify: No hard feelings with HS/LD. I love shooting and I love learning about shooting. I debate the merits of a technique to learn. I don't care if you have experience or if you have no experience, I just want to hear what you think about a technique or tool. If we resort to ridicule or ad hominem attacks, we're not learning anything at all.

 

[Al Thompson]

Tecniques come and go..

And the smart gunner learns as many as he/she can to furthur their education.

One thing most don't know is that Erick is an instructor at Gunsite. They see what works, what doesn't, on a scale vastly larger than most of us will ever experiance.

Just as I don't care for Weaver, some may not like slings or techniques to control the slings. Throwing rocks at someone offering to furthur your education for free is pretty low. Certainly not the mark of a professional.

 

[provalov]

Seems to me a sling in the HD situation actually complicates retention if the confrontation gets up close and personal -- it just gives the BG one more thing to grab if he's trying to disarm you.

 

[Dave Williams]

I vote for a sling

Since I've had an opportunity to train with a sling, I'd not choose to be without one. You never know what the HD situation could turn into, and a sling could be useful.

Dave

 

[Double Naught Spy]

provalov, it may give the bad guy one more thing to grab, but with a retention sling, he should not be able to get control of the gun and use it on you. That is the point of retention. If the bad guy wants to grab the strap, great. That means he has brought himself very close to me and has his hand(s) dealing with the strap. That leaves two hands free for me. The gun isn't going anywhere and he has pretty well locked himself into a position where I can pummel him.

Every technique and product has advantages and disadvantages. Figure out what works for you in your particular situation and then become as familiar with the use of those techniques and products, both good and bad aspects.

 

[Bruce626]

TFL refugee just now catching up here...

Because of what I read a while back in a similar thread on TFL, I choose to keep my SG in the NO sling mode while it is at the ready in my bedroom.

All of the training I've had has been outside with a sling using African, American, etc. So, I naturally plan to use the sling if I ever have to take my HD SG out for a walk near the 'hood. Only takes a second to attach it.

BTW, a guy in my last class had a huge number of shells on his sling until the second COF... emptied it in a heartbeat.

 

[Chris Rhines]

There are good arguments both for and against having a sling on an HD shotgun. I don't keep a shotgun for home defense, but if I did I think I'd rather have the sling.

I'd also avoid one-man house-clearing like I avoid Ebola (similar chances of survival.) I don't have eyes in the back of my head, nor can I cover 360-degrees. I'd rather call the law, hunker down behind cover, and let the bad guys walk into my sights if they be so inclined.

Of course, if I have to check on family members this all goes out the window, but that doesn't make it a good idea.

- Chris

 

[riverdog]

QD Studs are the way to go so that you can either have the sling or not, depending on the situation. My initial preference was to stay away from the too tactical look of the long mag extension so I went with a single round extension w/ QD stud as seen here

As always, YMMV

 

[DT Guy]

I would just add that anyone who uses ANY slung (slinged?) weapon should practice retaining the slung weapon during a physical confrontation.

Yes, the bad guy might be rendered dead, or give up, but you should always consider the possiblity of contact distance engagements requiring weapon retention skills. One consideration of the slung weapon is that it offers excellent opportunities for an assailant to use the weapon to control your movements via the sling.

One should practice disengaging the sling, 'shooting off' someone grappling for the weapon and a (relatively) safe way of rendering the weapon inop if you find yourself fighting for it. (The equivalent of the 'drop and pop' you'd use with a carbine while transitioning to a sidearm, for instance.)

Just my .02,

Larry

 

[oldpaladin]

Sling- very, very tight...

Folks, I'd have to opt for the sling for several reasons... Back when the world was much younger, we trained with rifles that were rigged with slings... These were very tightly kept, when not on the rifle range. You get comfortable with things after a period of time... Have always had slings on all my rifles and shotguns... Like Col. Mustard, I have a sling with 10 loops for extra ammo, and a stock sleeve for 5 more rounds... My shotgun, a Benelli M1014, always has four rounds in the tube, and one on my night table... My sling is loaded, and pulled very, very tight. As such, it rides below the ejection port, and is not a problem for holding the forearm grip with my right hand. Ammo sleeve is on left side of gun, rather than grinding into left side of my face... I have no problems using the techniques I was trained in years ago, and have since honed after studying Steve Moses' wonderful book, Carbine and Shotgun Speed Shooting, from Paladin Press. House clearing is a non-issue, if the rest of family is safe... If you don't have to move around, stay under cover, and call in the cavalry... Otherwise, remember: Stupid is, as stupid does, and therefore, stupid is dead... If you have to move from cover, use your head, or lose it. Like others on the list, if my shotgun is to hand, I might not even think of my GLOCK21 as a first choice... If time is of the essence, the GLOCK is faster. If hearing noise awakes me, the shotgun is first. If the alarm goes off, the GLOCK is quicker... I'm not "wed" to either, but if the smelly, sticky stuff hits the oscillating, rotary impellor, I'll try to grab both- 11 of .45acp and 5 of 12ga #1Buck can be a convincing argument to leave me and mine alone...

Regards and Respects,
Carter F. Leffen, oldpaladin, out...