Small caliber automatic mouseguns....what's the attraction?

[Matt G]

Smaller and yet smaller still has an attraction. Carrying ALL THE TIME is a lifestyle that few participate in. When one does, smaller and lighter has a huge appeal.

But they take forever to reload...

Honestly, I know of precisely ZERO cases of mouse guns being reloaded in a SD gunfight. The whole point is that they are there when you need them, regardless of how effective they are, tactically. So long as you've got 4 or so shots and it's with you, you can probably get out of your bad situation.

I'd rather have a heavy rock than a .25 auto.Come to think of it, I'd rather have one .22 rimfire auto than five fully loaded .25 autos.

Why? An auto cartridge (i.e.: designed to be fired out of an auto) with a 50gr. .250 bullet with .0491" facial area at 750 fps at least as effective as a 39gr. bullet at 1000 fps with a surface area of .0387", which is a long rimmed cartridge that was NOT designed exclusively for auto pistols, and may well have feeding troubles in autos.

I see a lot written about minimum calibers by people whom I question carry all the time.

 

[Cooter Brown]

Mouse Gun Classification???

Based on lots of experience, I just can't think of a .32 acp (or bigger) as a "mouse gun"with proper bullets. You have to own and shoot a quality gun like a PP-32 to appreciate the round. The .32 acp is VERY accurate and has a rather long bullet for its diameter. While certainly not the "Hammer of Thor", with a good FMJ it just pokes right on through. A .22 LR Stinger in a "non-pocket pistol" can also be quite effective, and is preferable to a .25 acp, which IS the definitive "mouser". Of course, if a wise man has time,can't avoid the encounter, and has a choice, he'll rely on a HP rifle or 12 gauge shotgun every time, thank you. IMHO, of course.

 

[JohnBT]

I want my Kel-Tec P-3AT and I want it before it the daily high hits 90*F.

John

P.S. - Seen this recall?

_________________________________________

C.O.P.
MODEL “COPâ€,
357 MAGNUM CALIBER, 4 BARRELED PISTOL

This make and model pistol may have the potential for “SYMPATHETICâ€, MULTIPLE CHAMBER, DISCHARGE and may DISCHARGE WHEN DROPPED.

The C.O.P. pistol design did not incorporate a Drop Safety until late 1982 or early 1983. Pistols produced before this time-frame may be subject to discharge if dropped. At approximately the same time an internal design change was incorporated to prevent the retaining plate from allowing a second firing pin from coming in contact with a live cartridge not under the hammer.

Bellmore Johnson Tool Company
445 Putnam Avenue
Hamden, CT

Source:

AFTE Journal, January 1982; Volume 14, Number 1:44-47

AFTE Journal, October 1983; Volume 15, Number 4:18

______________________________

 

[Blackhawk]

Welcome to THR, Cooter!

I tend to classify mouse guns as being of small overall size and weight rather than by caliber. The new Rohrbaugh R-9 is the size (shorter, actually) than the definitive (IMO) mouse gun, the P-32. It's a few ounces heavier, but shoots 9mm Luger rounds.

If it can fit in my pocket like a mouse (or sugar glider, if rodents aren't your thing) it can have the term of endearment "mouse gun" as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Selfdfenz]

I carry a 22 or 380 or 9 or 45 depending on circumstances. But recently a 380 a lot.
It's no hand cannon.

Everyone knows from watching Bogart shoot the BG's with those small .380 and less Brownings the BGs :
-clutch tummy
-say "Ug" and look startled
-fall down in a most polite manner
-the female interest always jumps at the sound, and sometimes exclaims, but never excessively so

That, combined with the relatively small size makes the Mouse Gun ever so attractive a carry option.

I have yet to see any gun, Mouse or otherwise, I want someone shooting at me. I hope the BGs feel the same and will leave me alone should I elect to uncork mine in their general direction. I know some of the corks will connect!
S-

 

[P95Carry]

Attraction??

PLINKING!

My HP22 has been great fun as a plinker. Just now and again tho .... when I really do have prob concealing much at all .... I will resort to this (providing well cleaned, to ensure reliability)..... and feel that 10 ''mouse'' rounds will still serve me well better than nothing at all.

As someone else commented ... I'd still not want to be on the receiving end of that at all .... at a mere 5 yds or so ..... there is still potential for damage. Plus .. if I was toting it it'd be cos of hot, hot weather .... meaning any assailant would most likely also have little more than a T shirt for protection!!

 

[BHP9]

Well I was very suprised by the many posts that base their carry gun on practical experience rather than the fantacy world of Walter Mitty as he vaults through the various gun forums.

In todays rushed and hurried world packing the super blaster for most people is just too much of a hassle. As I have said many times before they all start out with the big bore blasters and in the end either end up not carrying at all most of the time or gravitating to the very, very, small pocket guns wether they be derringers or automatics.

Heres one that will twist your mind

Even though I-------------
1. Do not like stainless.

2. Do not particularly love the .32.

3. Know quite well through testing with numerous top pistol shooters that very small double action automatics are about impossible to hit with any regularity much beyond a few feet (3 or 4 feet max).

4. Know that small auto's no matter who made them are notorius for jamming at the wrong moment if one shoots them with a limp wrist.

Believe it or not this is what I carry.

Seecamp .32.

Why?

Convenience, Concealbility, and Corrosition resistance

You do not need a bulky holster

You do not have to go through the hassle of strapping a holster on.

It is so comfortable to carry it can be carried all day long in complete comfort. Try that with even a light .380.

Even when caught in a rain shower or snow storm it will not begin to rust immedietely.

The fantasy world of the gun forums are one thing but everyday living is quite another.

It is heavily rumored that even Walter Mitty eventually retired his huge "Webley/Vickers Automatic" (chuckle) for a very small Browning .25 automatic.

 

[Boats]

Didn't any of you read Hot Springs by Stephen A. Hunter?

Your mousegun is called a "Jesus Gun" in that fine novel. Why was a five-shot .32 rimfire, nickle plated, revolver lacking a trigger guard called a "Jesus Gun?" Because when you saw it the next person you were meeting would be Jesus. The name denotes its surprise employment after one was thought to not be armed.

My Jesus Guns are all Berettas, a 21, a Jetfire, and a 3032 Tomcat. depending on my mode of dress. They are not all that potent, but they are flat, reliable for at least a mag at a time, and far better than being unarmed or only packing some sort of knife.

 

[WonderNine]

As I said on another thread with respect to a different caliber, if you think a 25 auto is ineffective, let me shoot you in the face with one...

No claims here that a .25 is ineffective, just that a heavy rock is more so

The purpose of carrying a gun as an armed civilian is to defend your self against the imminent use of deadly physical force in a situation where you reasonable beleive your life is in danger and you have no other alternative. That being the case, I question whether under any circumstances, one needs more than a pocket pistol.

Then why do you need mags that hold more than ten rounds?

 

[WonderNine]

I live in a wam climate, and wearing a holster on a belt is not always feasible....I am not willing to wear jeas and a vest just to conceal my piece when it is 115 degrees out...I am not willing to wear jeas and a vest just to conceal my piece when it is 115 degrees out...id much rather toss the 32 in my shorts pocket,

I toss a .357 in my shorts pocket. It's not bigger than a .32. The same with the Rorhbaugh and possibly the Kahr.

 

[WonderNine]

I'm just finding it amusing to receive lectures about weapon reliability from someone who in the same breath then brags that he carries a C.O.P. .357.

I know you're extremely biased against my CCW piece of choice as I've read before. Probably because of uninformed posts you've read? I've fired 500 rounds through mine with (no failures to extract hahaah).....and it's extremely durable, unlike most mouseguns. .357 Golden Sabers baby! You can keep your Kel-Tec P32....lol

 

[WonderNine]

What if there are two guys you are having to deal with? The reason I ask is I use to to have a double barrel 38 derringer that was accurate out to about 7 feet, I could shoot any other gun I own better. You miss and you SOL. Don't rounds like 357 and 38's lose alot of velocity out these very short barrels? Most of the barrel is taken up by the brass.

Yep, they lose alot of velocity. About as much as a snubby and more. But they work. I'd rather NOT JUST carry just a derringer. They fire TWO shots btw, not one.

 

[WonderNine]

COP .357. Isn't that what Leon carried? Personally, I'd much rather have Dekkard's pistol, being a .44 Bulldog and all.

Oh, where was I?

.32 NAA is about the most reliable automatic mouser I've ever tried. 200 rounds and not one fumble.

What .44 Bulldogs are the same size as a four shot derringer and can be carried in the front pocket? Please let me know.

Do you carry that automatic mouser in your front pocket holster with lint getting in there an all?

Even ejected the last rounds in the mag, something other Guardians don't always do.

Wow, that really gives me alot of faith in North American Arms....

I wouldn't hesitate packing one of those. Of course, I'd probably rather have a small lightweight Colt in .357 Mag, but sometimes even that is too big.

In those cases you need a Cop .357 derringer or a Kahr MK9/PM9 or a Rohrbaugh (whever they are available). And a little old two shot derringer for backup wouldn't hurt...

In those cases, a Guardian would be my choice.

Wrong choice...

 

[WonderNine]

If someone will carry a P32 all the time, it's more effective than a 1911 that gets left at home.

Yep, but that's just the obvious....I get tired of hearing it in every mousegun thread

 

[WonderNine]

Wondernine, I see you are from ND, as in North Dakota? I have heard it is kind of cold up there sometimes, and I bet you wear more clothes, or bulkier clothes, than someone in the south east. So you therefore have more choices.

Not anymore than you do!

It was 94 degrees here one day over a week ago already!

Believe me we see the hundred degree heat here all summer, this is a continental climate which is known for extremes, please don't push 'north = cold weather' stereotypes here because it just won't work.

I'll even wager that our record high here is hotter than yours.

How would you carry your Kahr while in 100 degree heat and 95% humidity wearing say normal jeans (ie, non-rapper style) or shorts and a tucked in shirt?

Front pocket holster or IWB. I carry a Cop .357 in a front pocket holster daily in shorts or jeans which is actually slightly heavier than a Kahr MK9.

 

[WonderNine]

You must not have much of an imagination!
I think people who've been carrying for some time lose perspective, bigtime. As someone who's gearing up to start carrying for the first time, it amazes me how anyone can carry more than a mousegun under even ideal circumstances.

You must not have much of an imagination!

 

[WonderNine]

Lone_Gunman, I think wondernine is smart enough to not live where it gets that hot AND humid. One or the other isn't bad but both isn't my idea of pleasant.

Oh that's very funny ....plz read my above posts....

 

[WonderNine]

If someone wants to carry full size or for that matter if you can conceal a Smith 29 with 8 3/8" barrel, more power to you. Here by July the humidity will be a bear and the temp will be bumping 100 every day for the next 60 days. Work calls for jeans or slacks with shirt tucked in. I've been the sport coat route and when its a hundred and your climbing in and out of the car all day and half of your customers are unairconditioned, your miserable. I went with the Beretta tomcat in a Galco deepcover IWB and while it was concealed it dug into my gut or pressed against the seat belt release and left a bruise on my love handles. Off work its no big deal to carry full size as long as the shirt tail is out and I am not sitting all day. Normally its jeans/shorts, aloha shirts or black tees with an IWB carry/BHP. But if I will be sitting or climbing in and out of a car all day its a mouse gun in a front or back pocket.
Gerald

I can understand that very well.

That's why I don't understand why you don't carry a pocket 9 or a pocket .357 in a front pocket holster!!!!

 

[WonderNine]

I'd rather be shot at by a .45 from a bad shooter than a .22 from a good shooter.

If that makes any sense...

Makes plently of sense to us all....and after all....it's not like any of us haven't heard that saying a thousand times before

 

[WonderNine]

I see a lot written about minimum calibers by people whom I question carry all the time.

Well then, I must be a refreshing change!

 

[WonderNine]

P.S. - Seen this recall?

_________________________________________

C.O.P.
MODEL “COPâ€,
357 MAGNUM CALIBER, 4 BARRELED PISTOL

This make and model pistol may have the potential for “SYMPATHETICâ€, MULTIPLE CHAMBER, DISCHARGE and may DISCHARGE WHEN DROPPED.

The C.O.P. pistol design did not incorporate a Drop Safety until late 1982 or early 1983. Pistols produced before this time-frame may be subject to discharge if dropped. At approximately the same time an internal design change was incorporated to prevent the retaining plate from allowing a second firing pin from coming in contact with a live cartridge not under the hammer.

Bellmore Johnson Tool Company
445 Putnam Avenue
Hamden, CT

Source:

AFTE Journal, January 1982; Volume 14, Number 1:44-47

AFTE Journal, October 1983; Volume 15, Number 4:18

That's a load of bollocks! check out this thread

It is no more likely to discharge any chamber dropped from 20 feet than a Colt Model 1911 series 70 or any other gun using an inertial firing pin.

Time to dispel the myths once and for all!

There's also a myth going around how it will fire more than one chamber at a time! Impossible! More bollocks!

 

[Marko Kloos]

Post count isn't everything.

 

[Gerald McDonald]

Wondernine, the reason I dont carry a 357 in my fron pocket is the same reason I dont carry a full size 1911 in my front pocket. It doesnt fit worth a darn. Take a pair of jeans, add one set of office keys,car keys,house keys (12 keys in all) in the right pocket put a Case sowbelly along with money clip and spare change in left pocket. Add one 357 and I got a bulge like long John Holmes. Unless I choose to wear the low rider pants of a gang banger all that fire power wont fit in my jeans. For the life of me I dont understand why what others may carry would bother you so much. I would suspect people like wildalaska have thought about what they carry and dont feel the need to carry big.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

Wonder Nine, I guess I can't argue with you about the weather in North Dakota... I have never been to ND, so I will just take your word for it that it is as hot and humid there as it is in, say South Florida...

Are you really sure though that you have as many hot days as Orlando? You know that from May to October nearly every day breaks 95 down there.

As for carrying your Kahr IWB, doesnt it show when you have your shirt tucked in?

I do not believe that normal fitting pants would allow me to carry a Kahr in a pocket holster without printing. How exactly do you get away with that?

 

[mini14jac]

Wonder Nine, why didn't you name your post "I want to bash all carry guns except mine."?
That would have been more accurate.

Hey, BHP9,
If you can't hit with your Seecamp past 3 or 4 ft., you should try a P32.
You can make a Coke can dance all day from 20' with no problem.

I have a PM9 as a front pocket gun.
Yet, with some jeans, the pocket is too tight to allow a reasonable draw.
(Not to mention that it looks like I'm hiding my pet turtle in there.)
Yet, the P32 disappears.
Or, wearing cotton shorts and a tee shirt when the temp and humidity are closing on 100:
hand me a P32!