Been using my Lee Breechlock press for a number of years and just ventured into loading 380 Got everything dialed in and some of brass comes out of the powder through expanding die with a smiley face cut on the case mouth. The part that's cut folds over into the mouth. I've had this happen a time or too prior with loading 9's but it's been a long time. Is the brass casing not going into the die straight arrow or what? Thanks for any help.
Smiley face cut on case mouth using Lee powder through expanding die
- Thread starter nevadabob
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Docendo Discimus
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Is the correct shellholder in?
LV Gun
Member
Could be several things I was having the same issues with my 28 year old Lee Turret press, first time it started happening I took a nail and cleaned out the ram where the shell holder goes and scraped out the shell holder, that helped a lot for a while then it started happening again I found I had to push in on the ram quite a bit to get the case and die to line up. It was at that point I put the ram almost all the way up and grabbed it there was a lot of slop in the ram but like I said it is 28 years old so I replaced it this week with a new Lee Value Turret press check those things to see if you are dealing with what I was , how old is your press ? Hope this is of help.
CQB45ACP
Member
Folding over?
For 9mm, I too use a Breechlock & Lee PTX for just expanding (not powder).
With that in mind, I can't begin to picture what this even looks like.
So, a picture would be really helpful because what I'm envisioning would take a significant amount of force.
For 9mm, I too use a Breechlock & Lee PTX for just expanding (not powder).
With that in mind, I can't begin to picture what this even looks like.
So, a picture would be really helpful because what I'm envisioning would take a significant amount of force.
bullseye308
Member
Try increasing your flair, sounds like you are not expanding the case mouth enough.
Case mouth gets flaired in the powder die.
CQB45ACP
Member
Since you understand what's apparently happening, could you describe it. I just can't get it.
I wish I was handy in posting pics. Envision the case mouth perfectly open and round. Then after a trip thru the Lee PTE die, there's a section, not quite a 1/4", that's slightly cut on both ends that's bent inwards that looks like a human smile.
I'll play around with the adjustment and add more flair. I'll report back when I get that done.
I'll play around with the adjustment and add more flair. I'll report back when I get that done.
GW Staar
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I think it sounds like a dented case goes up toward the expander and while most of the case slips over the expander and expands, the dent folds in tight against the inside pf the case and deforms it.
One way to prevent that is to take some needle nose pliers, insert them closed inside the case, then open it enough to bend the bent edge back ....circling until all looks uniform then try expanding in the ptx expander.
Once deformed by the expander though....it's toast.
Update: Then you posted just before I did and shot that to hell......how can the expander cut anything.....unless there's an extra part there that's not supposed to be there? I'd examine the expander die for something not supposed to be there.
One way to prevent that is to take some needle nose pliers, insert them closed inside the case, then open it enough to bend the bent edge back ....circling until all looks uniform then try expanding in the ptx expander.
Once deformed by the expander though....it's toast.
Update: Then you posted just before I did and shot that to hell......how can the expander cut anything.....unless there's an extra part there that's not supposed to be there? I'd examine the expander die for something not supposed to be there.
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CQB45ACP
Member
Here's a picture of a case pushed onto the expander...for the life of me I cannot see how what is being described can possibly be happening. Sorry, I just don't see it. Edit: and adding more flair isn't going to stop or start a smiley face.
Soonerpesek
Member
Unless the case is hitting the expander die at such an angle that it gets smashed before the die centers the case.......??
You are correct in needing pics.......................
CQB45ACP
Member
Yeh. I guess it could be making contact with the die body but boy some kinda noticeable force has to be applied to do all that.
CQB45ACP
Member
That's a Lee powder through expander? Not like mine.Is this the tool you are using? If so, then the cone part in the upper right is the expander that should be inside and it shouldn't have anything but air, unless the cone has protruding barbs that stick out....or the die case has barbs or something inside that.......
CQB45ACP
Member
Here's my 9mm Lee die. The case must be making hard impact against die before engaging the sliding expander. Stop pushing the ram when you feel that much resistance.
GW Staar
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Now you got me questioning that.....going downstairs to see what it is.
CQB45ACP
Member
Got it. Pistol? Not much powder through the lower cone
And now Lee has the M insert.
GW Staar
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OK, I got the wrong picture.....that was the old universal expander and it was not powder through. This is the powder through.
and the middle part is the expander sized for whatever you are expanding....
So, I would take that out and check that expander for barbs or uneven flare and for sure readjust the height, so you don't cram it in too far and over flare. But the cuts have to be a faulty expander plug, wouldn't you say?
,
And if you don't have a Noe expander plug, get one or get Lee to send you a replacement plug and specify you want "the New one with the M" step".....way superior for straight bullet seating.
Oh and BTW, that old Lee Universal expander, IMO, is one of the worst tools Lee ever made.....I used mine....once. Then went to powder through with Hornady Ptx's under my Uniflow P.M on my old RCBS 2000 progressive....then finally updated to RCBS's when they finally created a real PTX of their own....and one even with the "M" step.
and the middle part is the expander sized for whatever you are expanding....
So, I would take that out and check that expander for barbs or uneven flare and for sure readjust the height, so you don't cram it in too far and over flare. But the cuts have to be a faulty expander plug, wouldn't you say?
,
And if you don't have a Noe expander plug, get one or get Lee to send you a replacement plug and specify you want "the New one with the M" step".....way superior for straight bullet seating.
Oh and BTW, that old Lee Universal expander, IMO, is one of the worst tools Lee ever made.....I used mine....once. Then went to powder through with Hornady Ptx's under my Uniflow P.M on my old RCBS 2000 progressive....then finally updated to RCBS's when they finally created a real PTX of their own....and one even with the "M" step.
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CQB45ACP
Member
I got the Lee upgrade just a few weeks ago--$4.70 I think. Even had a thread about it. I dip my loads so only expander function is used.OK, I got the wrong picture.....that was the old universal expander and it was not powder through. This is the powder through.
and the middle part is the expander sized for whatever you are expanding....
So, I would take that out and check that expander for barbs or uneven flare and for sure readjust the height, so you don't cram it in too far and over flare. But the cuts have to be a faulty expander plug, wouldn't you say?
,
And if you don't have a Noe expander plug, get one or get Lee to send you a replacement plug and specify you want "the New one with the M" step".....way superior for straight bullet seating.
Blue68f100
Member
That happens when the expander catches the lip of the brass. The cause is miss alignment, brass tilted, not setting straight, of fully into shell holder.
LV Gun
Member
NV Bob
Is this what is happening? This is what my 28 year old press was doing when the case was going into the PTX die it was due to the slop in the ram you could literally move the ram back and forth about a 1/16 of an inch my new Lee Turret press solved the issue.
Edited Note- I was only having this issue with 9mm , as one other person suggested get the new Lee stepped PTX die expander insert or a Noe PTX expander die . I did get a Noe PTX die but it was still happening due to my press being so old I transferred my dies over to my LCT press and that is how I found out it was my old press.
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