Smith and Wesson questions

[Action_Can_Do]

Hello everyone. About a year ago I bought a brand new S&W Model 57. Since then I've only put about 100 rounds through it. One problem I've always had with the gun is that the double-action trigger pull is heavy. Ridiculously heavy. I can barely pull the trigger all the way with my off hand. Something else I've also noticed about the gun. While dry firing it in my kitchen, I noticed that the hammer seems to be hitting awful hard. It's really loud. To make sure it wasn't just my imagination, I dry fired a few of my other S&W revolvers. The sound of the hammer hitting the firing pin is easily twice as loud as it is on my other guns. Is it possible for the hammer to be hitting too hard? Can my trigger pull be lightened without extensive work? And finally, are the two related?

 

[Oyeboten]

It is possible that the Tensioning Screw which effects the Hammer Spring, is in too far 'in', and causing too hard a tension.

Also, by the time your M57 was made, the care and finesse which had been a Hall Mark of S & W, for careful fitting and tidying up interior Milled areas of the Mechanism, had passed somewhat, and, one routinely sees small rough burrs and metal crumbs and rough Milled areas in the Frame or on the moving Parts, loose Burrs smashed into recesses, and in general, not quite smoothed surfaces in various internal sliding or rubbing parts.


It is actually very easy to ammend these conditions with a dismantle, inspection and a few strightforward remedial attentions using simple materials, where the smoothness it ought to have, may be realized with no possible harm to anything.


For now, remove the Stocks, and, check the Screw ( Located on the lower area of the front Grip Strap ) which bears against the Spring, and see what you may notice there with that.

 

[sourdough44]

1st off do you know how to properly 'tap' off the sideplate? It's a newer gun but with the older ones the owner should peek inside once in a while for cleaning & light lube.

 

[StrawHat]

What is the model number in the crane slot for your 57? -1, -2, -???

 

[Old Fuff]

Usually, the mainspring strain screw should not be used to make spring tension adjustments.

Why not?

Because the screw wasn't put there for that purpose. It's supposed to allow the tension to be releaved so that the spring can be removed during disassembly. When the screw is fully turned in, and of the correct length, the spring is bowed or curved. That bow is important for correct function, and if it's changed too much it will affect the way the action works, and in a worst case cause the spring to break.

Also, if the screw isn't tight it may back itself out, with very undesireable results. If one wants to reduce the hammer fall (which is a questionable procedure, all things considered) the correct way is to use a thiner spring and keep the correct bow.

The most common method of doing an action job, as recommended over numerous Internet forums. is to polish the internal parts and install lighter aftermarket springs. While this may (or may not) work, it comes at the cost of reducing reliability. The best professional pistolsmiths that specialize in S&W action work do little or nothing along the above described way. Instead they go through the entire revolver - not just the lockwork - to reduce the weight of the trigger pull by eliminating unnecessary friction. In so doing they get a lighter pull without adversely affecting reliability. The downside to this is that their method requires special tools, jigs and fixtures that a home-hobbyist or small shop gunsmith is unlikely to have.

In addition the way certain things are done - or not as the case may be, depends on what era the revolver was made, either with or without MIM parts. For that reason the model dash number is important to know.

 

[Action_Can_Do]

The gun is a 57-6, the most current version of the model 57. I can remove the sideplate, but I don't do it often as I find it to be a stressful affair. I've heard about making adjustments to the mainspring screw before, but I've also seen a model 686 that once the screw was moved, it wouldn't stay in tight and kept getting looser. I don't really have the money to send the gun to a gunsmith for an internal polishing. I guess my biggest concern is, will the gun damage itself by the hammer hitting too hard?

 

[Old Fuff]

Well I have some good news...

The best way to polish MIM parts is to let them burinsh themselves in. Simply buy a set of snap-caps (available at www.brownells.com) and dry fire the revolver about 1000 to 1500 times and you will notice the pull getting smoother and feeling lighter (although it really isn't).

And no, the hammer isn't hitting hard enough to do any damage, although it may sound that way.

In the event that the dry firing and relubrication doesn't result in a pull that meets your satisfaction, consider returning the revolver to S&W and have their Performance Center tune it up.

 

[Red Cent]

Have you tried the old fashioned fix? Put a plastic or metal washer between the spring and the frame. Be nice guys. The thicker the washer/shim the more reduced the trigger pull. Old timers used to use leather shims in their Colt SAAs. Spell rust.

Old Fuff, have you heard of bending the last 2" of the mainspring forward and down? I know a few revolver competitors that use this mod. Gotta know springs/heat.

 

[Jim Watson]

I can't find a place in my S&W to put a washer like you can in a Colt SAA.

I've seen some of those kinked spring jobs. One practicioner says "only for Federal primers hand seated .010" below flush."
I HAVE a Python treated that way and it is awful picky on ammunition.

 

[Jim K]

The OP says that the Model 57 pull is a lot harder than his other S&W's, and that he bought the gun new. So what I suggest is that he take it back to the dealer he bought it from and ask them if the pull is normal and to show him other new S&W guns. They should not charge for that, surely.

Quite frankly, it sounds like that gun might well have a problem someplace but I am not sure it can be diagnosed sight unseen.

Jim

 

[Big Az Al]

As someone else has said the

strian screw should always be left as is from the factory.

I have gone thru by replacing what my dad had thought would be a lifetime (MINE not his) of those screws, because.....

people have listened to, or believed what they read,

that cutting some off the screw will reduce trigger pull.

And NOW that the main spring does not have the proper bow, another 5 to 30pounds have been added to the double action trigger pull!

Why? that now almost straight mainspring has to be made to bow, much more ressitance there, before it can flex normally, and we find that bending that spring is not easy at all!

The way I was taught to do a trigger job is

get three trigger return springs, cut one a coil at a time until the trigger will no longer return, then take the second and leave it at least one half of a coil longer. The third spring that is for if you cut the second one to short.

That will get about the most improvement you can get out of a S&W.

There is a small amount of possible improvement (likely????) with some very select stoneing in certian places, but frequently not worth the effort!

So my first look would be to replace the mainspring strain screw with a factory new one and then go from there.

 

[Old Fuff]

Old Fuff, have you heard of bending the last 2" of the mainspring forward and down? I know a few revolver competitors that use this mod. Gotta know springs/heat.

Sure, but I don't favor it very much.

If you try to cold-bend the spring it's likely to break, or at least crack - which means it will fail later. If you heat and bend it you get into tempering issues, unless you have an electric furnace, and even then you're asking for trouble.

For those that are interested in the idea, Brownells (www.brownells.com) offer a spring that S&W’s shooting ace, Jerry Miculek designed (see item #100-000-223). The spring comes in a kit with a matching rebound slide spring; and the combination comes with a warning, For Competition Use Only, and a recommendation to use ammunition loaded with Federal primers. The bend is just below the stirrup hooks rather then lower, and using the kit eliminates any need to do any home-heat treating, which is a very big plus.

All of this is fine for the intended purpose, but should raise a red flag when it comes to fooling with the springs in a defensive weapon.

As for the "other spring," Smith & Wesson doesn't call it a "trigger spring," or "trigger return spring," but rather the "rebound slide spring," which is something that is often either ignored or dismissed. It shouldn't be.

Besides pushing the trigger forward, the spring - acting through the rebound slide - must rebound (retract) the hammer after a round is fired so that the hammer nose or firing pin is pulled back inside the breech face. It must also reset the cylinder stop, and if it doesn't the action will be hopelessly jammed. Last but not least, cutting the original spring or using a lighter aftermarket one will slow the trigger's return stroke - especially when the slide is rebounding the hammer.

So as both Jerry and I point out (or at least try too) so-called spring adjustments are acceptable on big boy toys, but something that should be approached with great care on defensive arms. This is especially true when there is a better way to get most of the desired result.

 

[blackwalnut]

regarding m57 trigger pull....

You have a warranty. I would send it back to smith with a letter outlining your complaints and dissatisfaction. Its better than cobbling up or letting some butcher grind your $$$ revolver into crap. Are you physically in shape or have a condition which takes the edge off your physical dexterity? Take this into consideration. I have a friend who cant pull a double action smoothly due to MS but hes pretty good in single action mode. It might also need proper lubrication. Check with Smith and let them handle it. Anyway Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

 

[Action_Can_Do]

Merry Xmas to you, Blackwalnut, and to everyone else on the High Road. Looks like a trip back to S&W is in order. It's gonna wait til next spring though, as I have 100 rounds of 41 magnum I want to shoot off first.

 

[Oyeboten]

Oooops, apologies all.

I stand corrected ( on the Spring Tensioning Screw ).

I had been told that on the present day and recent S & W Revolvers, the Screw which tensions the Spring could be run in or out for adjustments, and, if too far in, could make for too heavy a pull in DA.


My understanding on that is now corrected.

 

[Old Fuff]

Looks like a trip back to S&W is in order. It's gonna wait til next spring though, as I have 100 rounds of 41 magnum I want to shoot off first.

Sounds like a good plan. After 100 rounds and some dry firing (put snap-caps or fired cases in the chambers) you may find that you don't need to send it back.

 

[tango2echo]

I read this thread a few days ago and finally got around to measuring the DA trigger pull on my S&W 57-6 .41RM SS 6". (unaltered with around 300 rounds through it) Double action measured 12lbs 6oz, which is pretty heavy. If you have access to a gauge I would see how your 57-6 compares to mine.

t2e

 

[StrawHat]

Action_Can_Do

The gun is a 57-6, the most current version of the model 57...

Okay, it is a brand new revovler and the action is stiff from the factory. As Old Fuff has mentioned, dry fire it and use it some. Let the parts wear in to each other before deciding something is wrong. Granted sometimes new guns need work but not all the time. Good luck.