Smoothest, most accurate 1911?

[Miracle]

Zombiphobia... I know this is a little off kilter, but are you dead set on Springfield? My American Classic 1911 is made by metro arms, and it's truly a great 1911. smaller than fist sized groups at 25 yards( I have proof) and they come with all the bells and whistles like extended slide stop and safety, beavertail, commander hammer, glossy blue finish... overall a great gun, and it looks great. They retail for less than 500 bucks. Look into them... it's worth a shot.

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[Sauer Grapes]

I'll join the SA Range officer band wagon. Very accurate $800 gun. STI Spartan would probably be my 2nd choice.

 

[JDGray]

What I quoted in post 23, and what I added are the only differences, untill you get to fitting the parts together. The NM Milspec has no play, slop, in the slide to frame fit, and the bushing requires a bushing wrench to remove its so tight. The GI is pretty loose, and borders on sloppy. I cant speak for other SA Milspecs, but this one is very well fitted. Both guns run flawless, the milspec is only slightly more accurate at close distance. The GI is harder on my brass, maybe from the smaller ejection port, but is still 100% reliable. The cost difference is $70-80 between the models. I also had a Loaded fullsize, that was fitted very loose, needed a bushing fit to the frame, and barrel before it shot good groups. It was not a NM! I would only get a NM serial SA1911 if I were buying another

14rds Milspec, 25' Was very cold out, so a few shots were off

 

[CTGunner]

Get a Sig Tacpac. This is what you want. I have a Range Officer and it works but it's not what you are looking for. If you want a 'fighting' gun for 800 dollars get the Sig.

http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/1911-tacpac.aspx

 

[LTR shooter]

Add me to the Springfield Range Officer list, it's a lot of gun for the money. I would not hesitate to buy one on line

That is what I ended up doing. My gunshop had none in stock and stated it would be a good while before they had any.

I was finally was able to handle one at Gander Mountain and knew right then I had to have one. Not long ago I picked one up NIB online and even with shipping and transfer saved $145 over the one at GM.

Out of the box I am really impressed. The real test will be at the range. Hopefully before the year is out.

 

[mljdeckard]

My Kimber Custom II is the best handgun I have ever owned. In that price range I would look at the economical STI guns.

I'm not sure what you mean by; "Not prone to breakage". They all break eventually.

 

[mljdeckard]

I think that the Law of Diminishing Returns kicks in at about $1000. You can pay a lot more, but the quality return you get won't be proportional.

 

[MICHAEL T]

American Classic II in blue about 500 . leaves money for ammo and other.

http://americanclassic1911forum.com

 

[PabloJ]

It seems barrel bushing is weak point S&W nixed that feature when they went to last generation of steel/steel, steel/alloy non-1911 autos.
If I ever wanted 1911 I would try second hand like-NIB Norinco which should cost about half of $800.

 

[Zombiphobia]

The only things I'm 'dead-set' on are accuracy, reliability, smooth cycling, and durability.

If the brand/model commonly requires repairs on anything factory installed before 1,000rnds, I don't want it(Para- love the smooth action, but my research says they suck on the durability front). If it simply cannot shoot less than 3 inches at 25yrds rested without match-grade ammo, I don't want it. If I have to tune ANYTHING(excluding trigger pull) to make it work the way I want it.. I don't want it.

I'm also not extremely fond of beavertail grip safeties either, but am willing to consider it. My hands are big, but not big enough to warrant one of those. I consider them excess baggage and have no use for them. When unloading, I like to function-test my weapons and GENTLY drop the hammer manually two-handed and a beavertail always seems to hinder my doing so. I would like an accessory but I don't NEED one. And I also prefer to buy from American owned/operated/manufactured as long as the quality is there.

The ONLY things I may want to change on the gun I decide on are sights, I may want adjustable 3-dots of some sort if one I get doesn't have them already, and I may add a compensator just for the little bit of recoil reduction they can offer. At some point, a threaded match-barrel and Osprey suppressor may be added, but I may hold off on that for a REALLY nice 1911(Nighthawk).

But for now, I just need one that will work smoothly and as accurately as possible in all imaginable environments... not because I'll neccesarily take it into those environemnts, but because I want to be able to trust it in case I do.

Honestly, as close to a plain-jane combat style 1911 is what I want, only better. Tracking? And until I can afford a Nighthawk, a wee bit cheaper is what I have to work with.

 

[mljdeckard]

What is it you think we are going to tell you that you don't already know?

 

[ugaarguy]

Zombi, here are a few articles by Hilton Yam which you may find helpful:

http://10-8performance.blogspot.com/2011/01/choosing-your-first-1911-some-thoughts.html

http://www.10-8performance.com/pages/Reliability,-Round-Counts,-and-Longevity-in-1911s.html

http://www.10-8performance.com/pages/Choosing-a-1911-for-Duty-Use.html

 

[Zombiphobia]

ugaarguy, those links are very helpful, thanks.

mljdeckard, I dunno, maybe reviews of guns people own that fit the above mentioned criteria? By 'review', I mean what brand, model, how long you've had it, how many rounds fired through, max rounds in a single session, accuracy, malfunctions if any, etc..

 

[Johnny Lightning]

I vote for a Springfield Loaded, Range Officer, Kimber Custom II, Colt Government, Colt Gold Cup, Sti Spartan, and Ruger SR1911. I think any of these would be a great choice for a $800ish 1911 from companies that also have good customer service if there would be an issue. I personally have a Loaded Springfield that I have slightly customized and plan on doing some more customizations to in the future once $$ is available. I really like my springfield and have ended up changing it out to a range/target 1911 w/ target sights and storm lake barrel. If I would have realized i wanted a target 1911 in the first place i would have purchased a target style 1911 instead of a fighting style 1911. Make sure you know what you want BEFORE you purchase your 1911. The loaded alone cost me $800 and the sight changes, new barrel and busing and fitting, and trigger job cost me another $500....which would have put me in another bracket up in quality for a new 1911. With the changes i made to my springfield i can shoot ragged holes but when it was stock it was a little sloppy and not very accurate in my opinion. If you can hold off until you have saved close to $1800 you will be able to purchase a really nice 1911...Les Baer Premier II or Dan Wesson. If you can save or sell enough to scrape up over $2000 you will be in the range of an Ed Brown, Wilson, or Nighthawk. If I could go back after knowing what I know I would have saved up for a Les Baer Premier II...everything I want and nothing I dont...I figure my springfield will end up being close to what a Les Baer is by the time I am done at a higher cost then a Baer....so if your looking to possibly do customizations buy the $800 1911 and if you want a finished high end 1911 save your coin and buy the next level. I forgot to add that i have shot a ruger 1911 and it was very accurate but my friend had break in issues w/ it and it is a little twitchy about what he feeds it.

 

[54lariat]

I would suggest adding a few hundred dollars to the 800 and get something that you will be super happy with, I looked at several around 800, I finally decided on a SIG TACOPS 1911....my other option was a Springfield 1911..... I have several handguns in several calibers and they are Springfield and SIG's.... but that is jsut my prefrence.

But my SIG TACOPS will make a orange size group at 80' with some cheap whitebox ammo...with my Hornady XTP reloads I can make a ragged hole at the same distance. I love that gun.

My .02 cents

 

[cyclopsshooter]

Again I say, used 80 series Gold Cup- Check Gunbroker $800 GCs pop up from time to time.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=265799635

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=265162056

 

[JTQ]

I'm going to take you back to sights again.

There are very few three dot adjustable sights for the 1911. STI has their TAS sights and I'm sure there are a couple of others, but most adjustable sights on a 1911 are "Bomar" type that require a different cut on the slide for them to fit. Most of those are target sights (hence the adjustability) and most of those don't come with white dots or tritium inserts.

Throwing the "American made/owned/operated/manufactured" and GI grip safety into the requirement makes it even more difficult.

The Colt 1991 is probably the closest thing to your requirements. If you look hard enough, and wait long enough for the spike in interest in 1911's due to the 100th year anniversary to die down down a bit, you may be able to find one in the sub $800 range.

http://www.coltsmfg.com/Catalog/ColtPistols/Colt1991Series.aspx

Auto Ordnance would be an American made 1911 in your price range, but it will have tiny GI sights. The Para GI is another, but you have apparently ruled them out. Remington may fall into your requirements. Nearly every other maker puts a beavertail grip safety on their pistols.

At the risk of starting another argument about who makes Springfield's 1911, they are made by Imbel in Brazil and imported by Springfield Armory, especially the models lower in the line-up like the GI and Mil-Spec. Those higher up in the line-up may come as parts and assembled in the US by Springfield employees. They make a fine pistol and have an outstanding customer service reputation.

I think any 1911 that would break before 1,000 rounds is most likely a manufacturers lemon. Depending on how long it takes you to get to that point, I'd certainly think the manufacturer would fix any problem under warrantee.

 

[mljdeckard]

My Kimber is the best handgun I have ever owned, currently selling for about $725. If I had to replace it tomorrow, I would look at the STI Trojan or the new Ruger.

 

[jahwarrior]

from Springfield Armory, the Milspec or the GI. i have the GI in stainless steel.

the Taurus PT1911 is another one i have. more than 3 years and 5,000 problem free rounds on it.

 

[CTGunner]

IMO every 1911 is somewhat of a gamble. Many, many, many folks have issues with 1911s they buy, sink lots of time, money, and ammo into making them work and then never really feel satisfied with their purchase. I think the evidence of this is quite frankly the existence of this thread and hundreds more just like it - "What's the most reliable out of the box 1911 etc". Your question isn't new.

My 1911 experience is as follows: Les Baer Concept VII - Dog. Couldn't get it to feed reliably even after a 2k round 'break in' period. Kimber Pro Raptor II - Dog. Kimber ultimately bought the gun back from me. Springfield Range Officer - 100% reliable. In fact I had my RO customized because I like it so much. When I got it back from the Smith who did the work I took it out to the range and put 200 rounds through it as fast as I could. Another guy was loading my mags. The gun never malfunctioned - but it did get ridiculously hot. I trust this gun. Wilson Combat X-Tac - 100% reliable. I trust this gun. If I had to gamble today, in the 800 dollar price range, for a combat (not a target gun) I would be looking hard at the Sig Tac Ops. I have also heard a very positive first hand account of the new Ruger SR1911 i.e. 5,000 rounds down range without cleaning and zero malfunctions. But the thing is you won't be buying THAT specific Ruger. Yours could be a problem or it could be great. So, as I said before it is ALL a gamble.

You seem to think that Nighthawk is the pinnacle of the 1911 platform. It may be for some people. But rest assured there are plenty of people who have dumped their nighthawks because they were problematic.

 

[mljdeckard]

I had a Nighthawk jam on me at a rental range. $2700 price tag.

 

[Sauer Grapes]

No grip safety? My favorite non 1911 pistol is the S&W 4506. You could also get the 1006. Guns are built like a tank, very reliable and damn accurate. My 4506 will shoot sub 3" groups all day long at 25yds off hand.
There are night sights, 3 dot sights and adjustable sights available for both.
I'm having a tough time figuring out if you want a bullseye gun or a fighting gun. There's accurate, and there's ACCURATE.

 

[Zombiphobia]

I had a Nighthawk jam on me at a rental range. $2700 price tag

And how many rounds had been fired thru it before you got to it? How many times had it been cleaned and how well? I doubt you can accurately answer that which makes the statement null, void, invalid.. pretty much worthless.

Thanks for the info, but since you seem to have some negative comment for everything, stop cluttering my thread with your non-sense.

Non-1911 guns are of no value here. It's also a logistical matter(my other option is a HK USP which I don't want).. shame I actually have to say that in a thread specifically inquiring about 1911 pistols... I know my only specification really, is '1911', and that should be enough.

Sauer grapes, I want a target gun made for combat, what's wrong with that? If that's not doable, there's a problem in the combat-handguns world. If I aim for the heart at 25yrds, I better hit the damn heart, not the shoulder, stomache or left knee. If I aim between the eyes, that better be where the bullet hits, no excuses.

granted, I have a beretta that can do that, but this isn;t about a beretta, this is about a gun that fires a round that will undoubtably knock the other shooter off his feet.


Is there anyone with any actual combat experiece with a 1911 style pistol to comment here? Apparently I need someone who understands that when your LIFE is on the line, accuracy and reliability are vital.. and I shouldn't have to trade my left nut to get that.

To LE and military answering this, if you want to send a Pm to avoid the hassel of open-posting your experience, you are welcome to do so.

ACCURATE enough to kill the other guy shooting back at me is neccesary. Do I really have to spend 2K to get that kind of trustworthiness out of 'the best combat handgun int he world'.. with some of the comments I'm getting, and keep reading about how often ppl have to spend a small fortune to make a 1911 work the way it SHOULD, I'm beginning to doubt it's all it's cracked to be as a combat weapon.

Take an Ak-47 for instance- they work. End of story. And before anyone gets the cute idea to say ' well gee wizz a 1911 pistol and an AK-47 assault rifle are not the same thing".. thanks to all the captain obvious posters on this forum.. already got that down.


So now that's my new question, is it REALLY neccesary to have a 2k$ 1911 to be able to trust it with your life? Those with LE and military experience WITH a 1911 only need answer this one. I really didn't think this was such a complicated matter. I mean, maybe I'm a little too anal about accuracy in a fighting weapon.. I trust my cheap AK and it's no tack-driver either...

if a 1911 is such a POS without having a fortune invested, why are they so popular?


And speaking of 'combat experience', I know several guys who use Wilson's, Nighthawk's and various other over-the-top priced 1911 pistols, but the point here is to NOT spend more than I have to. So far, I'm thinking I'm gonna have to spend a LOT more than I want to or can afford.

 

[Miracle]

Just because I'm not TOTALLY sure you saw my original post...

Zombiphobia... I know this is a little off kilter, but are you dead set on Springfield? My American Classic 1911 is made by metro arms, and it's truly a great 1911. smaller than fist sized groups at 25 yards( I have proof) and they come with all the bells and whistles like extended slide stop and safety, beavertail, commander hammer, glossy blue finish... overall a great gun, and it looks great. They retail for less than 500 bucks. Look into them... it's worth a shot.

At 25 yards:

 

[jahwarrior]

Miracle, i forgot all about those when i posted earlier. i had one, marked "Firestorm", and bought it used, for $300. all i did was swap the trigger for a short GI-styled one, and the grips. it shot great. i eventually sold it, for more than i paid for it. definitely a gun to look at.