Smoothest, most accurate 1911?

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Yes, Miracle I saw it. That was why I said the only things I was dead set on.. brand isn't one of them yet. I'll look into those, too, thanks. How many shots in that sample target?

Have you ever loaded mag after mag to see how long it can go between malfunctions? How quickly you can fire it without malfunctions etc?
 
How many shots in that sample target?

Have you ever loaded mag after mag to see how long it can go between malfunctions? How quickly you can fire it without malfunctions etc?

That was a 10 shot set from 2 mags. It will fire as fast as you can pull the trigger, and I haven't had but maybe one or two failure to feeds( magazine related). The most I've put through it at once was a whole box of umc Remington. I've honestly never had a gun or ammo related issues.very solid gun considering the price point.



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I own two springfields, in my opinion you can't go wrong with these.

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JTQ, interesting video. Was that gun stock from the factory?

I see some comments on there about the video jumping like it was on a replay track. Honestly I couldn't really pay attention with all his yelling and acting like a tool. I'll watch it again later after I wake up more. Thanks for sharing.
 
I want a target gun made for combat, what's wrong with that? If that's not doable, there's a problem in the combat-handguns world.
There is nothing wrong with your desire...the problem with an easy recommendation is your price point. It is difficult to recommend something with confidence when you aren't even in the mid-price range for 1911s

Is there anyone with any actual combat experiece with a 1911 style pistol to comment here? Apparently I need someone who understands that when your LIFE is on the line, accuracy and reliability are vital.. and I shouldn't have to trade my left nut to get that.
It isn't hard to understand what you want in accuracy in reliability, the question becomes, what is Your Life worth to you?

So now that's my new question, is it REALLY neccesary to have a 2k$ 1911 to be able to trust it with your life? Those with LE and military experience WITH a 1911 only need answer this one. I really didn't think this was such a complicated matter.

And speaking of 'combat experience', I know several guys who use Wilson's, Nighthawk's and various other over-the-top priced 1911 pistols, but the point here is to NOT spend more than I have to. So far, I'm thinking I'm gonna have to spend a LOT more than I want to or can afford.
I don't think you need to spend $2k for a hard use 1911 that will perform the way you want. BTW I don't think that price puts it over-the-top, over-the-top for a working gun for me is in the $4k-$6k range

I know several folks who carry a 1911 as a duty gun, we've traded a lot of our experiences to determine how money can be best spent to get a pistol that we would bet out life on in the real world of everyday carry in the elements without going over-the-top with the fancy go-fast stuff. Many officers try to initially go the cheap route and suffer the embarrassment of the gun failing during firearms qualification (better than in the field) and end up spending more on making the gun function correctly or just buying a more expensive gun.

The easy way, not much thought, not much research, just order and write the check is to spend the $2500 on a Springfield Professional. Nothing fancy, just a 1911 designed/spec'd for hard use.

A more economical route to get there is to spend $1200-$1500 on a Dan Wesson (I like the CBOB/VBOB) or STI Trojan and just get a few things tweaked to fit your personal needs.

The sweet spot (value/cost/performance) in the 1911 market really is in the mid-priced $1200-$1500 range
 
STI Spartan. Don't believe me? My other 1911 is a Les Baer Premier II 1.5G and at 20 yards the Spartan compares favorably in accuracy and the trigger, while obviously not as good, is definitely better than what you might expect. Reliability has been very good at over 1000 rounds now. I think the Spartan is the best buy 1911 under $1000.
 
This is how I know I grew up poor... when I think it's outlandish to spend that much money on a working gun but everyone else calls it 'mid-range' prices.

I guess I'm just gonna have to owe and pay interest for a while. Bcuz you're right about 'what's my life worth to me'. Death and capture certainly are not on my to-do list.

seems the most common for me to see within personal purchesed guns are wilsons and nighthawks. Comments on these two? In detail please.

I'll give this some thought, though, if I decide to get a pure range-use/hunting 1911 I'm strongly considering that Range Officer.
 
This is how I know I grew up poor... when I think it's outlandish to spend that much money on a working gun but everyone else calls it 'mid-range' prices.
I grew up poor...live in the ghetto, parents took jobs that were beneath their education, sometimes lived off the goodwill of medical professionals.

But I grew up to understand the false savings of going with the cheaper option the might do the job as opposed to getting what was needed to accomplish the job well and efficiently.

seems the most common for me to see within personal purchesed guns are wilsons and nighthawks. Comments on these two? In detail please.
Those are exactly the guns you are trying to avoid...you are paying for either the name or the convenience of being able to walk into a store and picking a great looking one up (instant gratification). There isn't much to choose between the two. Nighthawk was formed by former Wilson employees who left to open their own shop...so their business model is similar. It isn't that they don't build a good gun, it is just that they don't offer anything you can't get for less money.

Take a serious look at the Dan Wesson Valor series (fit and workmanship better than many guns costing much more) and the STI Trojan. (function and features much beyond it's price)...I see the STI Spatan as an optimized RIA
 
http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=328405

This link will take you to an interesting thread - "What 1911 do you carry on duty". Since you are looking for LE/Military opinions. Here you go.

Spend some time in the various 1911 sub forums to learn more about the various options/issues/opinions etc. that are out there.

A Valor is a good gun. I have looked at them up close and for the money they look excellent. Would I buy one? Maybe.

Would I buy another Wilson? Absolutely. When you buy a Wilson Combat you are getting a lifetime warranty and excellent customer service to go with it. Ask a question about your Wilson in the 1911 Wilson sub forum and the "Wilson Combat Rep" will likely get back to you very very quickly...like 24/7 fast. It's an over the top approach to customer service in my opinion. If you are going to look at the Springfield Professional for 2.5k also look at the Wilson Combat X-Tac and CQB for very similar money.



I don't think a Nighthawk is on the same level as a Wilson, but that's MY opinion. Do YOUR research and decide for yourself. The information you are looking for is out there, you just need to spend the time researching and investigating and formulating your own opinions as many of the people on the board have. There is no single, one size fits all answer.

Below are pictures of my customized Springfield Range Officer and my Wilson Combat X-Tac.

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seems the most common for me to see within personal purchesed guns are wilsons and nighthawks. Comments on these two? In detail please.

I had a Wilson CQB. It had the following issues: The barrel bushing was as loose as a Springer GI. There was a pronounced bump on the right side of the breechface that dented my brass, would not go into a shellholder afterwards. They ground the side of the
beavertail too deep and took .010" off the frame tang.

I sent it back. It came back with the same loose bushing, and with a nice resurfaced breech face, but now with .010" of clearance between it and the barrel extension. I emailed them concerned about the extra headspace. They replied it had nothing to do with headspace. Well, it did cuz they kept the original barrel.

How did it shoot? 3" at 15 yards with FC ball. FYI, a Baer shot the samo into under an inch.

I looked at NH, but they had a bunch of cosmetic problems so I didn't buy. Not worth the money.

I looked at DW. Nice fit and finish, but questionable metallurgy. I read about people complaining about slide stop notch peening.

I would recommend the Ruger if not for the reported galling issues. I bought one last month, just because I am intrigued about a 1911 whose receiver is harder than most slides, and haven't shot it yet. So I can't recommend it... yet.

I therefore recommend a loaded Springer, but you will immediately need to replace that nasty beavertail with a Smith and Alexander unit.
 
I did not suffer a single malfunction with this pistol, but I did have an occasional instance where the magazine failed to lock back, which I attributed that to the extended slide release. This occurred with several types of magazines so I knew that was not the issue.


IMHO, the slide not locking back on the last round IS a malfunction, and one that can get me killed. It's also a factor in me choosing a weapon other than the M9. For some reason after a while the slide locks back sometimes, sometimes it doesn't, but about all I've fired thru them are blazer brass, and winchester and the winchester +p crap the army uses which is also god-awfully inaccurate... besides the point, the point is the slide not locking back is a huge problem.

It's not always easy to keep track of just how many rounds have been fired in the heat of battle, and a 'did I just fire 8 shots.. or only 7'.. dirty harry kinda moment. And I need a qucik relaod that does not involve racking the slide. I should be able to simply put in a fresh magazine, press the slide release and fire. I can't be standing within 20 feet of someone trying to kill me(who may count better than me) spending extra time on reloads. So as sweet as the Valor looks and sounds in reviews, it's a liability for that one reason. Although if it's only the slide release/stop causng those problems, it's a cheap easy fix.

I have fired a Wilson CQB.. once, which isn't lot to go on. I like them, I hear great things about them, the price sucks.. but besides that I haven't heard anything bad... Edit: Until 918v just posted b4 me.

here's another reason I'm so anal about this- I don't wanna die. ;)
 
This was posted on the 1911 forum today in the LE section and comes from the link previously posted, in case you didn't check it out. I think it gives some idea of what folks who go into harms way are carrying.

Merry Christmas, Rolling Log 12/24/2011
As of 12/24/2011, the following number of 1911s are being listed as duty carry weapons by members of this forum;

Les Baer

(1) Concept 6
(2) Custom Carry
(1) Premier II
(1) Thunder Ranch Special
(1) Commanche

(6) Total

Colt

(1) TALO New Agent
(5) Combat Commander
(1) Lightweight Commander
(2) Series 80
(1) Series 80 Commander
(2) Series 70
(6) Rail Gun
(1) XSE "Lightweight"
(1) Gunsite
(2) Combat Elite
(1) Delta Elite
(1) Special Combat Government
(1) Defender

(25) Total

Dan Wesson

(1) Valor Bob Tail
(1) Valor

(2) Total

Detonics

(1) Combat Master

(1) Total

Ed Brown

(1) Special Forces Light Rail

(1) Total

Fusion

(1) Scout XL
(1) Tac 5
(1) T-Comm

(3) Total

Infinity

(1) SV Infinity Double Stack
(1) SV Infinity Single Stack

(2) Total

Kimber

(2) Tactical Entry RL
(3) Tactical Custom
(1) Tactical Ultra
(1) Tactical Pro
(3) SIS/RL
(4) Warrior
(3) TLE/RL
(1) TLE
(3) Custom II
(1) Pro TLE/RL
(1) Gold Combat
(1) Compact Stainless "Series I"
(3) Ultra Carry
(1) BP10

(28) Total

Nighthawk

(1) Talon
(1) GRP
(3) GRP Recon
(1) Custom 10-8

(6) Total

Para Ordnance

(1) SSP

(1) Total

Remington

(1) R1

(1) Total

Ruger

(1) SR1911

(1) Total

Sig Sauer

(1) Nitron Rail
(1) TACOPS
(1) TACOPS Carry

(3) Total

Smith & Wesson

(1) Model 108282
(1) Model 108293
(1) Model 178047 "Pro Series 9MM"

(3) Total

Springfield Armory

(1) GI
(2) Milspec
(6) Loaded
(1) Loaded Champion
(2) Professional/RL
(8) TRP Operator
(2) TRP Operator/RL
(3) MC Operator
(1) Champion Operator
(1) Light Weight Champion Operator
(2) EMP 9
(1) EMP 40

(30) Total

STI International

(1) Tactical 5.0
(1) Ranger II

(2) Total

Volkmann Precision

(1) Combat Custom

(1) Total

Wilson Combat

(2) CQB
(1) CQB/RL
(5) CQB Tactical LE
(1) CQB Elite
(1) CQB Elite/RL

(10) Total
 
Sauer grapes, I want a target gun made for combat, what's wrong with that? If that's not doable, there's a problem in the combat-handguns world. If I aim for the heart at 25yrds, I better hit the damn heart, not the shoulder, stomache or left knee. If I aim between the eyes, that better be where the bullet hits, no excuses.

Well all I can say is, if you shoot someone @25yds, you'll have a lot of explaining to do to the police. Whether you pay $400 for the gun or $4000, you'll spend 10 times that trying to stay out of jail.
I don't think there's an armed forces anywhere in the world trying to get out of an $800 handgun what you want.
There are so many serviceable 1911s out ther for 1000 bucks or less, I'm perplexed that nothing meets your standards.

Good luck, I hope the holy grail of handguns shows up for you.

Merry Christmas....:p
 
Well all I can say is, if you shoot someone @25yds, you'll have a lot of explaining to do to the police.

Really? So we should let our attackers get in closer? Is it to make it fair?
 
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Sauer grapes, I want a target gun made for combat, what's wrong with that? If that's not doable, there's a problem in the combat-handguns world. If I aim for the heart at 25yrds, I better hit the damn heart, not the shoulder, stomache or left knee. If I aim between the eyes, that better be where the bullet hits, no excuses.
Well all I can say is, if you shoot someone @25yds, you'll have a lot of explaining to do to the police. Whether you pay $400 for the gun or $4000, you'll spend 10 times that trying to stay out of jail.
I don't think there's an armed forces anywhere in the world trying to get out of an $800 handgun what you want.
There are so many serviceable 1911s out ther for 1000 bucks or less, I'm perplexed that nothing meets your standards.

Good luck, I hope the holy grail of handguns shows up for you.

Merry Christmas....

Agree.
 
Well all I can say is, if you shoot someone @25yds, you'll have a lot of explaining to do to the police. Whether you pay $400 for the gun or $4000, you'll spend 10 times that trying to stay out of jail.


I might be asking too much for a gun that doesn't cost enough, but shooting my enemy combatant at 25' is going to get me in trouble how, exactly??:scrutiny: You suppose OIG is going to have a problem with that?

I doubt it.

I had a huge overly-sarcastic comment typed out, but instead, I have to assume you missed the subect of my example.
 
IMHO, the slide not locking back on the last round IS a malfunction

Running a gun dry is also a malfunction, a mental one that will kill you just as fast as a slide not locking back. A lot of talk about noting going on here;)
 
This is how I know I grew up poor... when I think it's outlandish to spend that much money on a working gun but everyone else calls it 'mid-range' prices.

I guess I'm just gonna have to owe and pay interest for a while. Bcuz you're right about 'what's my life worth to me'. Death and capture certainly are not on my to-do list.

seems the most common for me to see within personal purchesed guns are wilsons and nighthawks. Comments on these two? In detail please.

I'll give this some thought, though, if I decide to get a pure range-use/hunting 1911 I'm strongly considering that Range Officer.

You don't have to spend a fortune to have a reliable, accurate 1911 that works every time. I own more expensive guns but the one I carry on duty and keep beside the bed every night is a parkerized Springfield Loaded. It is rugged, accurate, and has been 100% reliable with FMJ and a variety of JHP ammo.

IMO, the Range Officer is a whole lot of gun for the money and if it was avaiable when I bought my Loaded I probably would have bought one of them instead.

My Loaded-
SDC11499.jpg
 
Zombiphobia, I think the fellas want to help, but it seems as if we are having a tough time explaining the 1911 market to you. 9mmepiphany, seems to have made some headway in getting you to understand the 1911 market. Hopefully, I can also.

Zombiphobia wrote,
Sauer grapes, I want a target gun made for combat, what's wrong with that? If that's not doable, there's a problem in the combat-handguns world. If I aim for the heart at 25yrds, I better hit the damn heart, not the shoulder, stomache or left knee. If I aim between the eyes, that better be where the bullet hits, no excuses.

granted, I have a beretta that can do that, but this isn;t about a beretta, this is about a gun that fires a round that will undoubtably knock the other shooter off his feet.
I'll use this quote from you to hopefully help your understanding.

You mention the Beretta in your post. For arguments sake, since you didn't specify model, lets assume it is a 92FS. Basically, a 92FS is a $600ish pistol, that comes with fixed sites. However, it has the requisite accuracy you need.

Think of somebody that doesn't know much about the 92FS, coming on the forum and asking for a 92F, that is super smooth, that will never break, is target accurate, and costs less than $400. Sure, some may recommend the Taurus PT92 since you can sometimes find them close to that price, but is it as good as the Beretta 92FS? Will it never break, is it target accurate? I don't know. Nobody can give you that guarantee. Is it as good as a $600 Beretta? Some may like the features on the Taurus better, but practically nobody is going to say the Taurus is a better made pistol. If you want a 92FS (or whatever name the Beretta pistol may go by these days M9A1, etc), the entry price is $600ish, not $400. Does your Beretta have adjustable sights? Probably not, since most makers don't put them on "combat" pistols since they have a greater tendency to move out of alignment or break than fixed sights.

As 9mmepiphany mentioned, the sweet spot for 1911's is $1200 - $1500 (I'm more in the $1000 - $1200 belief, but that was before the run on 1911's for the 100th Anniversary). What you want is a 1911 that costs $400 below what a standard 1911 costs and you want it to be target accurate. And a combat pistol with target sights. Just like the 92FS, you are probably not going to get what you want for the price you are willing to pay.

In comparing the Beretta to the mid-level 1911, I'd expect the Beretta to cycle smoother, I'd tend to believe the 1911 will be more accurate, and I'd expect the Beretta to be slightly more reliable. The reliability advantage is partly due to straighter feed path, the shape of the 9MM vs the .45ACP, and the huge ejection port of the Beretta. I believe the 1911 will have greater long term durability. Will the 1911 you get be more accurate in your hands, nobody can say, but I believe it will have more accuracy potential, at least.

And finally,
but this isn;t about a beretta, this is about a gun that fires a round that will undoubtably knock the other shooter off his feet
while I prefer the .45ACP over the 9MM, and I believe it does give a performance advantage over the 9MM, the difference between the two rounds is just not that significant.

Hopefully this has helped. We are trying to give you the best information we can.

Merry Christmas.
 
This is turning into an interesting thread. Here is what I would suggest. Go to the range and bring a box of .45 with you. Either rent a gun similar to what you like or see what other people are shooting and ask them if you can shoot a couple of your rounds thru it. I think just about anybody you ask would be willing to let you try their weapon. I know I would.

What do you mean by enemy combatant? You in the military? If you want a self defense gun
Any 1911 is good for home defense. But your talking 1o or 15 feet. Any further then that and you will be lucky to hit anything in a life and death situation. Most people can't. At the range it is different. A 1911 is a lot of fun to shoot, but at .40 cents a round it is expensive, considering just to break in a new gun takes 400 to 500 rounds.

For what it's worth here is my opinion of what I have in 1911-
Springfield Loaded..don't like it that much, never will shoot 3 " Groups at 25 yards. Sent it back to Springfield and they replaced barrel and bushing and they sent me the target 3 rounds right together and one flyer a few inches away. That was from a bench rest. Trigger is too heavy, but could benefit from a trigger job.

Colt gold cup.... Much better, reliable, but the gun always feels like everything is loose. Heavy trigger also.

Kimber. Raptor...smooth ad accurate. I think you can find a used one for 800

Other kimbers I have are out of your price range so I won't go into them other then to say very accurate just need breaking in.

Good luck in your search....it's always fun researching and looking for a new gun.
 
what I'm beginnign to understand is that I've misjusdged the 1911 market.


Here's some food for thought that I keep over-looking. When I bought my Beretta(92FS), I was buying above my comfortable rpice range because it was what I needed at the time and it's what everone kept advising for what I needed. I'm very happy with it so far, and I ahven't put it thru the rigors I intend to put my first 1911 thru...

It was more money than I really wanted to spend, but my thoughts were, "I'm not buying a cheap working gun, I'm buying quality and performance." And I don't particularly regret it except I wish it was a .45

I guess what I'm saying is, I've had a huge brain fart on my weapon upgrade, and not realizing that if I want something better, it's probably going to cost more.

So to everyone I've been a dick head to, I'm sorry.
 
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