Hawk
Member
By "pocket thing", I refer to the assertion that revolvers enjoy an advantage due to their ability to be fired multiple times from within one's pocket. It's no secret that I consider this to be a bogus advantage and very probably an irresponsible and dangerous assertion when in the context of "why a noob should select a revolver".
Should this develop into a civil debate I will, no doubt, be sorely tempted to move goal posts relative to arguments from authority. To forestall this unfortunate tendency of mine, I should probably propose a point at which I will unconditionally cave and become an active proponent of the technique: how about a simple majority of certified instructors extolling the practice? I know I'll have issues with just one or two – given a few minutes on the internet I can find PhD scientists that believe the Egyptian pyramids were built by space aliens so a couple instructors probably won't do it – a couple dozen on the other hand and I'll likely start to weaken. A simple majority would be a slam-dunk.
A clarification: this involves only the firing of MULTIPLE rounds from one's pocket with no attempt to draw the weapon. We're not discussing one round which the semi could presumably pull off equally well. Two rounds is negotiable. However I usually see the assertion as RELIABLE MULTIPLE rounds. Let's say three or more?
On to the questions:
What kind of pocket are we talking about? I was taken to task at one point for assuming the discussion was about one's jeans front pocket in the context of grappling. Naturally, this would result in an unaimed shot as likely as not to take out the shooter's own femoral artery. Is it generally agreed that we're not talking tight pockets and getting grappled with one hand in one's pocket or is grappling part of some scenarios?
Is barrel / cylinder gap flash mitigated by using low pressure rounds or by making the pocket more removed from one's person? Or both or neither?
Pocket physical dimensions and location may well be a failure of my imagination – live in Texas and the idea of a trench coat is simply foreign. Are we suggesting a large pocket sufficiently removed from one's person that gap flash is a non-issue and loose enough that the thing may be pointed reasonably well?
How large would a pocket have to get before a mid-sized semi auto would be generally deemed to start working again? In my own defense, I had pictured a small, cramped pocket as it was assumed the semi would malf. I'm not at all certain that is a valid assumption once the pocket gets to a certain size and looseness. It's not like pocket detritus won’t tie up a rotating cylinder, after all.
Has any thought been given to legal ramifications? Does firing from concealment paint one in an unfavorable light? Would questions as to why one didn't draw prove embarrassing, especially in the context of multiple rounds being fired without displaying the firearm? It's pretty much drummed into us that numerous incidents are diffused by simply displaying the firearm – how much to we give up legally, if anything, by shooting from concealment?
Is the technique intended for the average Joe? Training required?
Are there any recorded instances of the tactic being employed successfully? While this is certainly not required for the technique to be viable I'd be curious under what circumstances it was employed especially in the context of numerous rounds being fired. Recall that the thread assertions don’t imply "fire once, then draw" it’s pretty much "empty the cylinder from your pocket".
I don't participate in the tactics portion of the forum. What failure of situational awareness is invoked to make shooting without drawing an attractive alternative? Is it deemed by the participants to be common? I did try a search but "pocket" pulls up every thread involving "pocket holsters" and "pocket carry" so any discussions about "pocket firing" tend to get buried under discussion of gear, so bear with me, please.
I'd probably grant that it's viable for some; my contention is that it has no place in a thread where someone relatively new can be left believing it belongs in the same context as "revolvers are dead simple and require minimal training" – both the "dead simple" assertion and the "pocket firing" assertion tend to be in the same thread if not the same post and this doesn't seem right if the pocket fire tactic is rare, esoteric and requires two days at Thunder Ranch to sort out properly.
…but I resolve to keep an open mind.
Should this develop into a civil debate I will, no doubt, be sorely tempted to move goal posts relative to arguments from authority. To forestall this unfortunate tendency of mine, I should probably propose a point at which I will unconditionally cave and become an active proponent of the technique: how about a simple majority of certified instructors extolling the practice? I know I'll have issues with just one or two – given a few minutes on the internet I can find PhD scientists that believe the Egyptian pyramids were built by space aliens so a couple instructors probably won't do it – a couple dozen on the other hand and I'll likely start to weaken. A simple majority would be a slam-dunk.
A clarification: this involves only the firing of MULTIPLE rounds from one's pocket with no attempt to draw the weapon. We're not discussing one round which the semi could presumably pull off equally well. Two rounds is negotiable. However I usually see the assertion as RELIABLE MULTIPLE rounds. Let's say three or more?
On to the questions:
What kind of pocket are we talking about? I was taken to task at one point for assuming the discussion was about one's jeans front pocket in the context of grappling. Naturally, this would result in an unaimed shot as likely as not to take out the shooter's own femoral artery. Is it generally agreed that we're not talking tight pockets and getting grappled with one hand in one's pocket or is grappling part of some scenarios?
Is barrel / cylinder gap flash mitigated by using low pressure rounds or by making the pocket more removed from one's person? Or both or neither?
Pocket physical dimensions and location may well be a failure of my imagination – live in Texas and the idea of a trench coat is simply foreign. Are we suggesting a large pocket sufficiently removed from one's person that gap flash is a non-issue and loose enough that the thing may be pointed reasonably well?
How large would a pocket have to get before a mid-sized semi auto would be generally deemed to start working again? In my own defense, I had pictured a small, cramped pocket as it was assumed the semi would malf. I'm not at all certain that is a valid assumption once the pocket gets to a certain size and looseness. It's not like pocket detritus won’t tie up a rotating cylinder, after all.
Has any thought been given to legal ramifications? Does firing from concealment paint one in an unfavorable light? Would questions as to why one didn't draw prove embarrassing, especially in the context of multiple rounds being fired without displaying the firearm? It's pretty much drummed into us that numerous incidents are diffused by simply displaying the firearm – how much to we give up legally, if anything, by shooting from concealment?
Is the technique intended for the average Joe? Training required?
Are there any recorded instances of the tactic being employed successfully? While this is certainly not required for the technique to be viable I'd be curious under what circumstances it was employed especially in the context of numerous rounds being fired. Recall that the thread assertions don’t imply "fire once, then draw" it’s pretty much "empty the cylinder from your pocket".
I don't participate in the tactics portion of the forum. What failure of situational awareness is invoked to make shooting without drawing an attractive alternative? Is it deemed by the participants to be common? I did try a search but "pocket" pulls up every thread involving "pocket holsters" and "pocket carry" so any discussions about "pocket firing" tend to get buried under discussion of gear, so bear with me, please.
I'd probably grant that it's viable for some; my contention is that it has no place in a thread where someone relatively new can be left believing it belongs in the same context as "revolvers are dead simple and require minimal training" – both the "dead simple" assertion and the "pocket firing" assertion tend to be in the same thread if not the same post and this doesn't seem right if the pocket fire tactic is rare, esoteric and requires two days at Thunder Ranch to sort out properly.
…but I resolve to keep an open mind.
