So sorry, I hate to do it, but I must: Bear defense handgun thread

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Seriously, I am. Very sorry. But I've been thinking about this for awhile....

I want to narrow this down to two specific gun/caliber types, and compare the tradeoffs of recovery time and therefore follow-up shot rapidity.

In the event you were attacked by a bear, mountain lion, etc. - but let's say large 800 lb. grizzly bear for purposes of this thread.

Comparing these two only:

A. A large frame revolver (5 or 6 shots) in .44 mag or .45 Colt

-Versus-

B. A large-plus frame revolver (5 or 6 shots) in .454 Casull

(I think the number of rounds past 3 that the gun holds is wholly irrelevant)


Obviously, if you're only gonna get one shot, you'd rather have the Casull with appropriate bullets.

But even though bear attacks typically happen very very suddenly, wouldn't you really be better off with a .45 Colt or .44 mag with a heavy bullet (240-300 gr), so that you JUST might be able to recover from the recoil of the first shot quickly enough to pop off a 2nd or more?

I'd always supposed that a .454 casull with a short 3-4" bbl was about perfect as a pepper spray backup in big bear country (if fishing etc. and have no longgun), but now I'm thinking I'd rather have a good ol' .45 Colt even for the largest bear, espec. considering the outstanding penetration that a hardcast 300 gr .45 Colt gets. What if your first shot misses the vitals - with a .454, by the time you recoil from the behemoth recoil & muzzle rise, you're probably not gonna get that 2nd shot off; but with the .45 Colt or .44 Mag, loaded to strong but not insane Ruger-only velocities, you should be able to get that 2nd shot. Maybe even a third.

So pick one for Alaskan fishing protection, let's say:

A. 4" revolver in .45 Colt or .44 mag
B. 4" revolver in .454 Casull

I purposely left out the giants (.500 & .460), as those frames typically don't fit my hands, and ergos are important for getting off any shot, let alone 2. So please leave them out of this discussion, except maybe in passing.

This question from someone who's never set foot outside the CONUS, so go figure...

 

[lloveless]

DTHW search is your friend. Then go shoot a gun in the calibers you list. You will immediately know which you will be able to use/handle.
ll

 

[ArmedBear]

Wait... You want to know what kind of handgun a bear should carry for self-defense while fishing in Alaska?

I don't think they carry any. They don't have opposable thumbs.

Possums, OTOH, have opposable thumbs on their rear feet, so they can and sometimes do carry small handguns in their pouches, at least AFAIK.

 

[ArmedBear]

BTW I have a rule. Perhaps it's arbitrary, but it is what it is.

That rule is: a defensive handgun can be fired, more than once, effectively, from a one-handed grip. I can do that with a S&W Mountain Gun with full-house loads. I don't -- realistically -- think I can do it with anything much hotter.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Exactly. I was thinking the S&W Mountain gun perfect for almost all outdoor defensive scenarios. Mild enough to encourage one to practice with - a lot. Ergo & light enough to shoot quickly, under stress, and from various positions and/or one-handed. .45 Colt or .44 mag used effetively trumps a .454 casull not used effectively every time.

Wait a sec - but you are after all the Armed Bear - you must be armed with something.

Hey and besides, bear defense gun threads are a perennial classic, right?

Then go shoot a gun in the calibers you list. You will immediately know which you will be able to use/handle.

I shoot both - I 'use' and 'handle' them both. Which is why I brought the subject up. The .454, with full house load, gives a muzzle rise up nearly over my head with a 2-hand grip - it's very stout & impressive. Slow to follow up the next shot with. I shoot both but don't "immediately know" which one would be best for bear defense. I can certainly follow up faster with a .45 Colt. But the .454 packs a bigger wallop on the receiving end. Which trumps which? If the bear is on you in 0.73 seconds, then the .454 Casull wins the day, 'cause you'll get either one or no shots. If no shots, it's irrelevant, but you may as well have the .454 so that your friends & family giving your eulogy a few days later can make reference to what a big gun you could handle. If one shot, you want it to be .454.

But if the bear can be seen charging from 20 yards or more, you might just be able to pop off that 2nd one before you're on the ground covering your head & praying.

 

[Cosmoline]

It really depends on what you personally can fire, accurately, with reasonably quick followup shots. Use what you're most comfortable, accurate and fast with. I'd even include a .357 shooting 180 or 200 grain hardcasts.

But keep a slug gun or rifle handy.

 

[Enachos]

Well you can get a handgun chambered in .454 casull and also load it with .45 colts. That way you got the best of both worlds! I'd really like to get my hands on a ruger alaskan!

 

[kanook]

Not that it matters, my Ruger Alaskan is loaded with 3 RO hardcast loads and then 2 454 loads. My thought is I can put 3 well placed hopefully stoppers controlled in to the animal and if still needed the big boy can bark last cause it may be to late. Hope Ii explained it right.

 

[ArmedBear]

The Alaskan is significantly heavier than the Mountain Gun, with a good deal less barrel. Worst of both worlds, for field carry, IMO.

Image sells. Beware.

 

[rha600]

I would go with the .44mag

edit: wait, are we reloading or just using factory ammo?

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

Enachos has it. Why not get a .454 and shoot what you can handle, or load it somewhere in between the .45 Colt and .454. Best of both worlds. Personally, there are bigger cartridges I'd opt for when shooting 800 lb. bears..............

 

[batmann]

I have both a .44M Mountain Gun and a .44M Alaskan and I find I carry the Alaskan more. It just seems to balance better for me.
PS-I don't want to get a war going on which is better or which barrel lenght is better, I gave only my opinion and we know what they are worth-----

 

[Ronsch]

Dr. Winslow,

Since I live in Alaska, I will chime in...

Luckily, when I have been out in the woods, and have been charged (2 x what we call "bluff" charges) I have had a 12 gauge pump shotgun. It was backed up with a single action .45 LC.

I sling the shotgun over my back and have gotten pretty good with grabbing the slide and swiveling it off of my shoulder.

If hiking in a more urbanized environment (such as right around the neighborhood, where we do have black bears wandering, even downtown) then I carry a .45 LC single action revolver.

I did recently buy a S&W 1937 Brazilian Contract .45 ACP.

 

[Loosenock]

I would go with the .44 Rem Mag. I have seen that ammo in every store that sells guns and such in North America. I cant guarantee that you can find .454 ammo in every store in AK.

'Loose

 

[Confederate]

Some pepper sprays are extremely effective at stopping even angry, aggressive, determined bears. Handguns are mostly effective when the bullet hits the brain or the stem between the brain and the spine, and the .44 mag will do both if you aim (respectively) for the nose and mouth.

The heftier calibers are more difficult to control in a situation where bullet placement is everything, so I'd go .44 mag.

 

[44Dave]

If a .44 is good enough to hunt bears with, then I reckon it's good enough to defend against bears with.

 

[anheiserglock]

I'd even include a .357 shooting 180 or 200 grain hardcasts.

I would have to agree, but i would probably not go any lower. Using a .38+p round may be pushing your luck a bit, IMO.

 

[Cosmoline]

I agree. You need at least enough penetration to get to vitals. The heavy hardcast .357's have surprisingly good penetration. A mere .38, not so much. It reminds me of the time I was walking alone down a trail by a salmon stream near the Susitna with nothing but a Police Positive Special in hand. The thought occurred that I should not have volunteered to loan mister slug gun out to a friend.

 

[BigWoolyBanjo]

What about a snubby 44 special?
I saw a used one today for $350 and was wondering if that would be better than a snubby 357.
Thoughts?

 

[rha600]

I would go with the .44 Rem Mag. I have seen that ammo in every store that sells guns and such in North America. I cant guarantee that you can find .454 ammo in every store in AK.

'Loose

that's kind of one of the reasons I said go with the .44

 

[Cosmoline]

The way things are going around here, you're going to be hard pressed to find .44 Magnum ammo in our stores! The shortages are still pretty bad.

 

[Zundfolge]

The way things are going around here, you're going to be hard pressed to find .44 Magnum ammo in our stores! The shortages are still pretty bad.

Buy in bulk online ... there's plenty of ammo somewhere, sometimes it just needs to come home on a brown truck.

 

[DWFan]

You forget a cartridge directly between the .454 Casull and a .44 Mag/Heavy .45 Colt: the .445 SuperMag. Designed for exactly the weight bullets you'd use against a bear. Loaded with something like a Belt Mountain Punch or even the 405gr WLN-GC from Beartooth Bullets; it should be quite effective.
Having said that, adrenalin does funny things to the human body in an emergency situation. People have been known to lift pianos and cars with no difficulty or injury. It is possible that a person could fire several shots from a .500 S&W Magnum snubby and not feel the recoil. If they were a practiced enough shootist that aiming was instinctive, well, draw your own conclusions.

 

[rha600]

The way things are going around here, you're going to be hard pressed to find .44 Magnum ammo in our stores! The shortages are still pretty bad.

Really? That is one of the few types that i can find plenty of down here. my .357 or .38 though, not so much.

I also agree with what DWFan said. For those that hunt, when was the last time you shot a deer with a high powered rifle and can remember the recoil? You get so caught up in the moment and the adrenalin running that the recoil is practically a no brainer.

 

[jmortimer]

A Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Colt with a 300 grain LBT hard cast bullet at around 1200 fps would be easy to carry and have excellent "ergo" - At 36 ounces it is light enough and will handle real nice. The 300 grain LBT should be good for about four feet of penetration at 1,200 fps. It will shoot though the bear on a broadside and head-on would do a number on the bear's skull or spine.