So where are we on case neck/shoulder annealing these days? Induction anyone?

[MCMXI]

I bought one of the Annie induction annealers about 3 years ago and have started a few threads related to my use of that unit and annealing in general.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=779096
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=800337

Overall my experience with induction annealing has been mostly positive and I've figured out how to get good, repeatable results that show up as excellent precision on target, low ES numbers and good case life. I've only run into issues when trying to anneal large batches of cartridges in a short amount of time. The unit will trip and I have to wait until it's cool to start up again. I think my unit has something like a 30% duty cycle whereas the newer and much improved units are up around 65% or better.

I started loading for the 6.5 PRC recently and this weekend decided to anneal a couple of hundred once-fired cases. I hooked up the water-cooled coil for the first time (see below) siphoning water from the kitchen sink into a bucket which worked really well and got what appear to be consistent results annealing dirty brass (see below). The unit got fairly hot with a 2.1 second anneal time and shut off a few times during the 200 or so I annealed, but the coil never got much above room temperature if at all feeling cool to the touch the entire time. I think the water-cooled coil gives better/faster results compared to the flux concentrator coil.

I called Garett today to order their new water recirculator/heat exchanger and mentioned that he never sent me the foot pedal that was on back order and that I paid for. He is going to send me the foot pedal and kindly offered to upgrade my Annie to the latest version at no charge!! Now that's great service for sure.

https://fluxeon.com/product/water-recirculator-heat-exchanger/

So for those out there that anneal cases, what are you using and have you found any new technology or products that you've found to be useful?

Thanks.

 

[FROGO207]

Me--I am a little bit low tech from your methods. I dip my brass in the lead pot by hand. I use this method because I already had the lead pot and tend to be a wee bit frugal. Those things do look like they are easier to use than my method though. Curious how much faster things get when using water cooling though.

 

[jmorris]

Mine is pretty low tech but I dump the cases into the collator, set it and it can run as long as I keep the collator topped off and all the cases come out the same. No water needed.



I have played with induction heating for silicon crystal growth, made a lot of different work coils, all water cooled.



It’s not really “new” technology though.

 

[Legionnaire]

I've been playing with a new Annealeez. It seems to work well, but I don't have enough experience with it to have an informed opinion as to performance. Sure is easy to use, though!

 

[MCMXI]

I've been playing with a new Annealeez. It seems to work well, but I don't have enough experience with it to have an informed opinion as to performance. Sure is easy to use, though!

If I weren't already invested in the Annie system I'd probably be looking at Annealeez. Giraud's system has an Annie interface option but it's not cheap. When I worked at Remington all annealing was done with industrial sized flame annealers. I don't know if any commercial ammunition manufacturers use induction annealing.

http://www.giraudtool.com/giraud-cartridge-case-annealer.html

 

[splattergun]

Color me old fashioned. I don't even have an induction cooktop yet. Still using gas. Works for annealing brass, too.

 

[bikemutt]

I have the AMP induction annealer. Expensive, yes. Worth it to me, yes. The new calibration software is great, no need to send in the brass for analysis.

I don't have a place to safely use a flame thrower annealing machine, the AMP solved that problem.

 

[Varminterror]

Cooktops aren’t induction coils, they’re resistive element coils. Induction is WAY cooler.

I have a home brew induction annealer, working on design(s) for one of two options for a large batch or continuous machine, not sure which one I like better at this point - leaning continuous for simplicity. I absolutely LOVE induction over salt bath or flame. I built a homemade annealeze and a turntable type in the past, and have done salt bath annealing as well (my least favorite).

I looked at the Annie and the Amp, found it was a lot cheaper to build my own.

 

[jmorris]

Cooktops aren’t induction coils...

Some are, you just need to look for the ones some people warn you about as far as cancer, EMF, ELF, RF, radiation and such.

https://www.consumerreports.org/ele...os-and-cons-of-induction-cooktops-and-ranges/

https://breastcancerconqueror.com/another-dangerous-cooking-appliance-induction-stovetops/

 

[rskent]

So for those out there that anneal cases, what are you using and have you found any new technology or products that you've found to be useful?

I’m using my el-cheapo homemade version of an annealezze. It sets up pretty fast. The process goes pretty fast. It seems to do a good job.

 

[splattergun]

Cooktops aren’t induction coils, they’re resistive element coils. Induction is WAY cooler.

I'm aware of the difference. I've been cooking for 50 years. There are inductive cooktops available. Way cool, huh?

 

[gojones]

Anybody use the Lee pot and salt bath to anneal? If so, what are your thoughts Vs. using propane flame units.

 

[Varminterror]

Induction > flame > salt bath, in my experience.

 

[rayatphonix]

I have a homemade flame annealer that I used for a couple of years. I copied an annealer I saw on the net that uses a disk driven by a DC motor. I don’t shoot as much as I used to and now use a salt bath system. I’ll anneal right after I decap so I never have to worry about a large amount at one time. If I shot a higher volume, my opinion might change.

 

[jmorris]

I'm aware of the difference. I've been cooking for 50 years. There areinductive cooktops available. Way cool, huh?

How cool they are depends on who you ask, like the breastcancer link I posted above, that thinks they are not very “cool” at all, from a health standpoint.

 

[MCMXI]

I got the Annie back today along with a foot pedal. Garett upgraded it to the latest revision at no charge so now it has an onboard fan and other goodies that should increase the duty cycle and decrease the time needed to have the coil energized. I'm still waiting on the cooling system since Garett is waiting on parts.

https://fluxeon.com/product/water-recirculator-heat-exchanger/

How cool they are depends on who you ask, like the breastcancer link I posted above, that thinks they are not very “cool” at all, from a health standpoint.

Not sure what any of this has to do with induction annealing. Heating parts using induction coils has been going on for decades without any issues. The induction coil that I'm using is very small with a concentrated field compared to anything that's used for a cooktop. As for cook tops, I'd need more than the ramblings of Dr. Veronique Desaulniers who is a chiropractor and who makes a bunch of money from naturopathic solutions to medical problems since she's not a doctor that can prescribe medications. Had she gone to medical school perhaps she'd be handing out pills rather than advice.

 

[WestKentucky]

I keep looking at the home-made units on YouTube. One of these days I'm going to start collecting parts. I haven't come across an adjustable one yet, but I haven't really tried to either.

 

[SamT1]

Me--I am a little bit low tech from your methods. I dip my brass in the lead pot by hand. I use this method because I already had the lead pot and tend to be a wee bit frugal. Those things do look like they are easier to use than my method though. Curious how much faster things get when using water cooling though.

So you just dip them in a hot lead pot? Any guidelines for this?

 

[FROGO207]

Yeah it is pretty simple. Get your lead up to 650*-675* using a thermometer. I use a leather glove with the ends of the fingers cut off to hold the brass. Leaving the primer in, grasp the brass by the headstamp end, dip the neck in a bit of used motor oil, then submerse the neck and shoulder in the hot lead until it starts to feel hot to your fingers. Remove it from the lead and drop it mouth first into a bucket of ice water. Keep the water and molten lead away from each other!! The used motor oil keeps the lead from sticking to the brass. Not depriming first keeps it out of the neck. Dropping it in ice water stops the heat from going down the brass. Then I size/decap followed by wet tumbling to clean everything up. It takes a little practice to get your method where you want it for each length of brass. There have been several threads where this method has been discussed along with other methods but it makes sense to me to use what is available without buying a new toy-----especially if you are already making bullets then.

 

[edwardware]

. . . dip the neck in a bit of used motor oil. . . The used motor oil keeps the lead from sticking to the brass.

I missed the motor oil step the first time I tried this; it was a very long afternoon. Lead makes a wonderful solder on brass, very durable.

 

[Offfhand]

Just curious, what method(s) is used to measure hardness of brass before and after annealing?

 

[edwardware]

Just curious, what method(s) is used to measure hardness of brass before and after annealing?

I can detect the difference as more consistent bullet seating force; I can also observe notably extended case life.

I know of no way to directly measure hardness in a section as thin as a case neck. Micro-brinell might exist, and microscopy would show smaller crystal structure.

 

[MCMXI]

I can detect the difference as more consistent bullet seating force; I can also observe notably extended case life.

I know of no way to directly measure hardness in a section as thin as a case neck. Micro-brinell might exist, and microscopy would show smaller crystal structure.

My criteria for success is precision on target. If the anneal is done properly a known good load will continue to shoot well, and possibly better, and ES numbers will be low. If the anneal isn't done properly, case sizing won't go well, neck tension will be all over the place, ES numbers will go south and a known good load will shoot considerably worse.

 

[FROGO207]

Yeah determining the quantitative state of annealed brass is quite subjective at best. As mentioned above I process my brass again when neck tension diminishes to the point that I notice a difference compared to newly annealed brass. Results on target and brass neck life are the ultimate answer and learned through trial and error. I now find that after every three reloads I will anneal for best results. YMMV

 

[MCMXI]

The lead annealing method is interesting and I've tried flame annealing, but I like the instant ease and consistency of induction annealing. I can plug in the annealer and anneal five cases, load them up and shoot and repeat 20 minutes later. There's no wasting brass settng up a flame, no mess, no waiting for lead to heat up and no fumes. Yep, that new toy was well worth the cost to me.