So you stumble across a thief...

Status
Not open for further replies.
And just what does constitute residential burglary in you jurisdiction,

You can not be serious. I feel like I am being cyber harassed. Go back and read the RCWs I posted more than enough times for you to surely have read, atleast one time.........

They are illegaly in my house, on my land when I tell them to sit and wait for the police. The law infers exactly what they intend, another RC I cited many times for you to read. The law infers they intend a felony and or crimes against a person(s). I have also shown you several times when deadly force is justified under the law.

If it dont jive with what you think then good for you. Stop asking for something I have already proved to you. All you need to do is go back to a post where you asked the same exact question, then read my answers.

If you refuse to do that, then stop asking for me to post them (over and over and over.....). I did that more than enough............
 
Posted by Boris bush: You can not be serious [in asking just what does constitute residential burglary in your jurisdiction]. ... . Go back and read the RCWs I posted more than enough times for you to surely have read, atleast one time.........
It seems you missed my point entirely. I was responding to your comment, relative to the article in The American Riflemen, "A crime sure was commited. unlawful entry. Surely not a situation the home owner was justified to display a deadly weapon. Based on what you have said before".

If the woman's residence was being burglarized, of course she was justified in producing a weapon--and using it, if that became necessary. That's probably true in all states, at least if she was at home at the time. No one has said otherwise.

However, that's a far cry from any of the scenarios presented by the OP.

They are illegaly in my house, on my land when I tell them to sit and wait for the police. The law infers exactly what they intend, another RC I cited many times for you to read. The law infers they intend a felony and or crimes against a person(s).
In one of the OP's sceabrios, they had been in the house; in another, they had been in the shed; the fact that they are on your land is irrelevant. You cannot prevent or stop a crime of unlawful entry. It's too late. And as the OP has said repeatedly, there is no current threat to you. There is no longer any evidence of an intent to commit the kind of felony that might justify the use of deadly force. It's over.

In some states, the fact that the perp is still unlawfully inside the automobile, as described in the OP's third scenario, would be relevant. Not where I live, and not, as I understand things, where you live.

You want to point a gun at them and tell them to sit down and wait for the police? Be my guest--that's a citizens arrest, and it both makes you responsible for their well being and puts you at extreme risk of both civil and criminal liability.

You had better hope that your gun does not go off.

If they choose to leave, do not shoot. Check out RCW 9A.16.040 for a description of conditions under which you could use deadly force to detain them. You would have to be acting under the direction of, and assisting, a peace officer making an arrest.

Where I live, the circumstances permitting deadly force in preventing the departure of a felon are a little broader (I must do so immediately after having personally witnessed their commission of a Class A felony--burglary is not included), but based on the advice of counsel, I'll never even consider it.

I have also shown you several times when deadly force is justified under the law.
Yes you have, and either you have failed to understand that not one of the conditions cited matches any of the scenarios described by the OP, or you are trying, for whatever reason, to continue an argument.

If it is the former, you do need to consult a local criminal attorney before you get yourself in a whole lot of trouble.
 
Kb

If the felony begins when I am not home, then I get home. My residence is now ocupied. As in I am home. The burglar does not take legal posession of the property gaining castle rights.

Is that ununderstandable?
 
Here in OKC Oklahoma, once anyone unknown to you has broken the confines of your home,or car or boat,with as much as a finger inside the plane of either area you are residing in,it is considered a threat,and if you choose to,you have the right to use deadly force...That being said,on the other hand,they can dance around on your front porch or in your yard naked if they want to,and you cannot use deadly force...But as soon as they reach inside,the game changes...
 
I would draw my gun and start YELLING commands for them to STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING, EMPTY YOUR HANDS AND LET ME SEE SOME EMPTY HANDS. How am I certain the BG is not armed? How am I certain there is another BG around the corner or behind a bush/building waiting for me to be distracted by what is going on in front of me to ambush me from behind? Draw, point, aggressively let my presence known, aggressively let the threat know I am armed and that I want them to STOP, and keep extreme situational awareness of what else is going on around me, not just the situation at hand. If the goon makes ANY sudden movements from where their hands are concealed, that scares me and I fear for my life. It does not take much to scream the phrase or something similar to the latter "STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING! SLOWLY, SLOWLY, SLOWLY SHOW ME YOUR HANDS! KEEP YOUR HANDS OPEN AND SLOWLY SHOW ME THAT YOUR HANDS ARE EMPTY! DO NOT, DO NOT MAKE ANY SUDDEN MOVEMENTS! DO NOT MAKE ANY SUDDEN MOVEMENTS! SLOWLY SHOW ME YOUR HANDS!" You LET it be heard. In my case, both my side and downstairs neighbors would already be outside, we are very aware of each other and if someone starts shouting, we are all aware, regardless of time of day. The best thing for you to do is make a ruckus, make sure there are plenty of witnesses, SCREAM for help, anything that lets OTHERS know something is WRONG. If the goon wants to play billy bad***, let them. The preferred reaction from your presence, of course, is for the BG(s) to LEAVE. Although this isn't certain, your presence alone may be all it takes, and if it is, GOOD! If not, you must be able to handle the moment of stress when you have to access the situation and call for help at the same time. Practice doing so! Be able to multi-task in a situation like this, because if you don't and the time comes, you are going to be far more appreciative of all those times you looked goofy practicing in your living room with a gun in your hand and a phone on your ear. From my experience as a LEO, a MAJORITY of the time the threat is going to bolt like a scared rat at the first sign of a person's presence...This has happened 99% of the time when I have been in a burglary in progress, home invasion or just kids trespassing; the other 1% had legal justification to be on the property (I.E. homeowner, guest, homeowner's kid(s)). Be advised that this is what I would do, maybe not you. I believe I have enough practice, training, discipline and mental readiness that I would be able to handle clearing leather and drawing down on the goon, regardless of stress level. At gunpoint, I will be able to access the threat and what they are going to do. Just because a person does not have a physical object in their hand(s) to be considered a concrete "weapon," does not mean they are not armed. By law, your fists can be classified as deadly weapons. Your teeth can be classified as deadly weapons. Your legs and feet can be classified as deadly weapons. How do I know the goon isn't hopped up on drugs? How do I know the BG doesn't have street fighting credentials like Kimbo Slice? How do I know the fool isn't going to use that same radio/laptop/gaming console that they just took from me and throw the sharp corner of it into my head? People can die from being punched, stomped, bitten and/or having objects thrown at them. That is the horribly reality and it has happened before; you know it, I know it and you cannot doubt that it will probably happen again. That being said, not ALL scenarios will go this way. You cannot be 100% ready or sure of any scenario, as you cannot decipher and plan ahead every aspect and action the criminal element brings your way. The only best defense against this is practice, running various scenarios through your head, keeping a higher sense of situational awareness and alert and just...Staying on your toes. In the scenario you mentioned where you are sure the guy isn't armed and is ignoring your commands, then you must make a choice. You can choose to be a good witness and just stand aside to let the goon finish their deed, or you can deploy your soft/hard hand techniques, scream and sound off like you got a pair, stand your ground, draw (with discipline), etc. These scenarios are a real pickle, because you can't really call how they are going to play out. Are you going to buckle up only when you know you are going to be in a car accident? No, you do it because you want to be ready if you get into an accident. That being said, if you are in a car accident, it may just be a small one, one that doesn't even require the use of the seat belt, but you use it anyways. Alot of the people on here carry more than just a gun on their EDC, and for good reason. Utilize your arsenal. Carry OC, a knife, your gun, extra mag, load your fist with a lighter, wear steel toed boots, carry a cane, whatever you must do...Be ready and aware. This far from being paranoid, because these things happen often. People DIE because of scenarios like this. Your scenario can escalate from a simple entering auto to a violent physical confrontation. Always treat every criminal encounter with caution and be prepared for the worst. BE PREPARED FOR THE WORST. BE PREPARED FOR THE WORST! Every day that passes I have a gun on me and every time that day passes to night and I don't have to use it, I am glad.

THAT aside, nothing says "GO AWAY" like the sound of a Remington 870 racking a 12 gauge 3" magnum slug into the chamber. :evil:
 
Last edited:
By 8 pages in I think everyone has had a chance to say their piece. It's drifted now more to legalities than tactics and strategies so let's just stop here on this one.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top