So you're a police chief of a small department...

[Charlie Horse]

I was talking to a friend of mine the other day. We were talking guns, and "what iffing" about with what we would equip a small department. We were talking the whole 9 yards from side arms, to patrol rifles, to precision rifles, etc. Here were my picks:
Sidearm Glock 35 or 34
Backup\Off duty Glock 27 or 26
potato field gun Glock 43
Patrol Rifle M4gery of some description, with officer supplied optic
Shotgun Mossberg 500/590
Precision Rifle SR25 (commonality, and hey, if you're going, go big)
.50 Barrett M82 of course.
And maybe some sort of .22lr trainer if the ammo ever comes back down and is in stock.

So what would y'all pick?

 

[dogtown tom]

potato field gun Glock 43

A what?

 

[WestKentucky]

Sidearm- Smith 4" 686+ or Beretta 92g
Backup-Smith 642 or glock 26
Tater field gun-NAA guardian 32naa
Patrol Rifle-Marlin 336
Shotgun-Remington 11 trench gun
Precision rifle- Ruger GSR or RPR or Tikka t3 chassis rifle

 

[denton]

Small department?

Glock a bit smaller than a full-size "duty pistol", 9mm, one for each officer.

M4gery with red dot sight, one for every two officers.

One AR10 style 308.

 

[WestKentucky]

A what?

Yeah, I missed that one too. I think it meant a deep concealment gun like maybe for undercover work? I dunno...OP went small...

 

[IlikeSA]

Officers can pick their own sidearms from a list of makers: S&W, Glock, Springfield Armory. Caliber must be .357 magnum, 45, 9 or 40. You can carry it if you show familiarity with the firearm, qualify, and have a level 3 holster.

Patrol longarm: AR of some sort, with one .308 patrol rifle and one 870 per shift.

Less lethal: Pepperball and less lethal shotgun

 

[Old Dog]

Quote:
potato field gun Glock 43
A what?

Thought it was an onion field ... Remember the two LAPD officers taken hostage and killed in an onion field back in the '70s? Famous book about the incident, as well as a made-for-television movie.

My officers would have a choice for uniformed carry:
In .45 ACP, the FNX-45, the SIG P-227 or the SIG P-320.
No .40 S&W allowed.
In 9mm, a P-series SIG, P-228, 229, 320.
We'd have Colt M-4s with Aimpoint red-dots (pick one) in our mobile units, along with Mossberg 590-A1s or Remington 870-Ps, ghost-ring sights and extended mag tubes.

 

[bannockburn]

Pistol-Patrol-Glock 19 or SIG P229
Pistol-Back-up-Officer's choice
Rifle-Patrol-Colt M4
Rifle-Precision-Ruger Precision Rifle
Shotgun-Mossberg 590

 

[Charlie Horse]

Its one of those difference in location things. Yep, the LAPD still calls them onion field guns. Here, because of a similar incident in, you guessed it, a potato field, that's the term that stuck.

 

[guyfromohio]

I'd be apt to allow personal use with frequent qualifications and mandatory range time. But I have zero LE experience. None.

 

[Mr Woody]

Pistol- Patrol - Glock 19
Pistol- Back up - Their dime but no single actions and must qualify with it
Patrol Rifle- semi auto M4 of some kind
Shotgun- Pump shotgun loaded with 'less lethal' ammunition only

Maybe a Precision Rifle- This is very expensive for a 'small' department to afford. Not the rifle but the extra time and manpower expense needed to keep a couple people proficient.

 

[230RN]

For those having interest:

An onion field or potato field gun is a concealable backup gun carried by police Officers (and other non-commissioned citizens who go armed.)

AKA "Back Up Gun" or "BUG."

The back story on this involves two Los Angeles (LAPD) Officers, Ian Campbell and Karl Hettinger, who stopped a car with two suspects who were already armed and ready to shoot as the Officers approached.

The officers were disarmed and captured and forced to drive the suspects' car to an onion field a long distance away, and the suspects executed one officer (Campbell) in that field. The other Officer escaped, and the suspects were captured, tried, and sentenced later.

Thus, the catchwords "onion field gun," and in some variations, a "potato field gun" --which neither Officer apparently carried.

If either Officer had a BUG in that onion field, the results might well have been different.

The story was published in a book called "The Onion Field" by Joseph Wambaugh.

Terry, 230RN

REFs (Among many others):
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/justice-story-article-1.249124

Book:
ISBN-13:9780385341592

 

[Warp]

...with what we would equip a small department. We were talking the whole 9 yards from side arms, to patrol rifles, to precision rifles, etc. Here were my picks:


So what would y'all pick?

Primary pistol: Glock 17
Backup: Glock 26
Rifle: Typical AR15 style in 5.56x45, 16", sling, Aimpoint, and light
Less-lethal: Taser and Sabre OC

Officers would be required to carry the G17 and reloads (and issued ammo) on duty. Backup(s) may be any quality handgun in a service/defense cartridge that is qualified with. Rifles to be stored at the station and picked up (mandatory for patrol officer with a vehicle) at the start of shift although officers may provide their own rifle within certain standards (still the same rifle type, cartridge, and magazine compatibility). Must qualify with their rifle in its current configuration to use on duty, must use the same department provided ammunition.

No shotgun since we can afford to spring for rifles in every car. No precision rifle because a small department can only afford so much and with everybody having a rifle it should be covered well enough. Lots of money to provide equipment, logistics, procedures, and continued training.

I want KISS and commonality. I could explain in much more detail, but, KISS.

 

[hso]

equip a small department

Typical financially limited department or wealthy small department?

Typical strapped departments would go with a shotgun and duty pistol and couldn't afford the rest. Best deal would probably be the Glock and Mosberg since you'd avoid a lot of maintenance costs.

 

[CoalTrain49]

Someone forgot about training and ammo budgets that go along with any firearms selection. Usually small departments have to scrimp on both of those which I think is more important than the actual firearms the dept. uses.

9 mm Glocks all around

M4's for every officer who wants to qualify.

Lots of ammo and lots of training.

If an officer wants a BUG they need to buy it.

 

[BSA1]

Typical financially limited department or wealthy small department?

Typical strapped departments would go with a shotgun and duty pistol and couldn't afford the rest. Best deal would probably be the Glock and Mosberg since you'd avoid a lot of maintenance costs.

Exactly. Most people do not understand how tight Police budgets really are.

In my area it is mostly a case of "Human see, Human do." (Any Planet of the Apes fans here?)

The large metro Department (400 +/- officers and personnel) issues Glock 40's as well as the County Sheriff Department. The Chiefs of the surrounding small towns and bedroom communities departments are mostly retired high ranking (Captains, Assistant Chiefs) from the P.D. or S.O. and are not "gun guys". So since Glock 40's are is use with the big department it is good enough for their small one.

The other side of the coin is the Training Department and Range Officers want to switch back to the 9mm. Guns last longer with the 9mm, ammunition is cheaper and it is easier to train and qualify officers. However big departments have budget issues also. The metro department here is spending big money on body cameras for all of it's officers.

Most people also do not realize that the shotgun is the most versatile long gun for Officers. It is trendy to brag on how great the AR is but the A has a limited in role for most of the situations LEO's are in.

So it comes down to making tough choices. Officers rarely shoot there guns in the line of duty. But they are in daily contact with the public, involved in high stress situations and making arrests.

 

[jmorris]

So what would y'all pick?

What manufacturers are going to take me to lunch and give me free stuff on the trips they send me on?

I know that's not very high road, just how things work. G17's, M4's, 870's and 700's have worked for a long time.

 

[Robert]

G22, AR15, 870. Well, at least that is what we carry...

 

[P226]

The key word here is SMALL department . So with that the best choice is the Glock 17 for patrol , AR-15 with Aimpoint's and light, a couple 870's.

Backup would be officer choice from approved list with officer buying what they want.

If it's just what I like then Sig P226 , AR-15 with Aimpoint PRO and light, 14" 870 with plus 1 mag extension for 5 in the tube with rifle sights .

 

[jmorris]

On the "training" side, we lease the range to our local county sheriffs dept. The fellows that keep the grass mowed spend many more hours per year there than officers and grass doesn't even grow year round.

 

[Fiv3r]

It's kind of hard to divorce a "small" police department from a "poor" police department in the way of spending budget.

I live in a small town. Actually, it's somewhat divided in two. Most of the town (maybe 8000 people) is not in city limits. It is policed by the county. While my town is prosperous, the county is a poor one overall. The cars are older. I think they carry .40 glocks, but I'm not sure. Certainly not top of the line for a police force in charge of a sizable population.

The "historical" part is actually the city limits. I think it covers about 2,300 people. Very little crime, almost none of it violent, most traffic stops are revenue stops (rolling through stop signs, etc).

Despite having just a handful of officers, they all sport new Chargers, a full size Glock, tazers, and there is even a tricked out armored HumVee sitting in the department parking lot. I have never seen it move.

If it were me, and budget was a concern, I would just go with Glock 17/19 and an Ar in each car. I'd keep a couple mossberg 500 at the station just in case.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Small Department?

Let them carry what they want. Just specify a quality gun in 9mm/.40/.357 sig/.45 ACP. Rifles in 5.56. Shotguns in 12 gauge 3 inch.

Give 'em a stipend to buy their hardware.

Deaf

 

[GRIZ22]

Small department usually means small budget.

Glock 19 for everyone. Big enough to shoot well, small enough to conceal. There's something to be said for carrying the same gun on and off duty. Most cops are not into guns. Doesn't mean they don't shoot well.

Anything else is up to the individual officer as long as they qualify with it and must meet guidelines. They must qual with the issue G19 also. I'm not going to spend money to send someone to 10 different armorer schools. If Joe and Charlie want to carry a S&W or SIG go ahead.

Undercover? Many people are under the misconception that requires something different. It doesn't. Carry the G19. Just don't use a holster.

Shotguns in every car. I like 870s but will take Mossberg if I can get them for less. M4s for selected officers. Savage bolt gun for precision shooting. Rifles are issued to individual officers but all officers will be familiar with them.

I can't see how you can justify a 50 cal for a small department. It will collect dust.

 

[LeonCarr]

The only way the OP's department would get the firearms mentioned would be if it were an affluent town or suburb with a city council comprised totally of former line level police officers and prior service military NCOs.

Here in Texas the vast majority of municipal/county departments with less than about 100 sworn officers require that the officer provide their own duty weapon or long guns. Most governmental agencies do not want the expense of buying them, training the officers to shoot them, training armorers to fix them, etc.

IME most city councils see not only the initial costs but also the costs of training and ammunition. Imagine the costs of shooting that Barrett .50 on a regular basis.

9mm Glocks and Mossberg 500s would be a good start, with officers who want to carry ARs being able to if they provide them and take a patrol rifle class.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[Warp]

Most people also do not realize that the shotgun is the most versatile long gun for Officers. It is trendy to brag on how great the AR is but the A has a limited in role for most of the situations LEO's are in.

So it comes down to making tough choices. Officers rarely shoot [their] guns in the line of duty. But they are in daily contact with the public, involved in high stress situations and making arrests.

Rifle > Shotgun

If my police officers were to have one long gun you bet your butt I would prefer it be the AR and not the shotgun. The issue is cost, a simple pump shotgun can be had for a good bit less than an AR.