Some work to do before choosing a self-defense handgun

[ohbythebay]

I also like what 1911 guy said

Practice Practice Practice. It would be rare for someone new to guns to lift one and be a dead shot. It takes practice. The good news is, each time you practice, if you follow some pretty good advice and techniques, you WILL see yourself get better and better

 

[NuJudge]

Be rather proficient, 1 or 2 lessons not enough

Get your proficiency with sight alignment, trigger control and breathing control with a pellet pistol or a .22 pistol.

After you are reasonably proficient, look first for something that is completely reliable for you. Try lots of different firearms.

One or two lessons will not cut it. Many lessons, with lots of practice in between, may cut it.

 

[1911 guy]

I have opined strongly before about some of the handguns brought to market by a certain Austrian who knew nothing about handguns but was a master marketing whiz. I shall refrain from further polemic. Suffice it to say that I find them uncomfortable and difficult to shoot well at all. When compared to a "traditional" (normal) angle of the grip frame, you've got a recipe for requiring "muscling" the muzzle on target. That either fits you or doesn't.

I taught handgunning as a vocation in the military. Your choices were an M9 or an M9. I didn't care for it, but I mastered it and taught others to do the same. Now, teaching as an avocation (not getting paid) I see the much more rapid progress of shooters who have the luxury of choosing their handgun. I see it as folly to waste that advantage.

Especially when the knowledge to find that fit is available before initial purchase.

 

[Doc7]

I am really satisfied by the contents of this thread that I should pick a handgun that I like for now and get training, and then if necessary I can get a "closer to perfect" handgun once I know more. For now I will choose one and like you all have said, practice practice practice.

I just finished the book "Armed" about concealed carry and practiced the basic dry fire drills (sight picture and trigger pull) for 15 mins last night. I am not practicing draws etc so I don't build bad habits before training, merely practicing sight alignment/sight picture acquisition.


Edit to add: I am going to rent some more but I really think I will end up buying a 1911 style pistol.

 

[Sam1911]

I really think I will end up buying a 1911 style pistol.

Pick a good one and you'll be very well served! Get shooting!

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by Doc7: I am going to rent some more but I really think I will end up buying a 1911 style pistol.

I bought one around five years ago; it is a high end all steel model.

There have been many posts here on them. Do some searching. Some of the points that have shown up repeatedly are....

• Some shooters can carry and conceal a full size 1911 without difficulty
• Others find a Commander-length pistol easier to wear when sitting
• Still others find the grip size to be the major issue regarding concealment, and prefer either a bobbed grip or an "Officer's" grip frame
• Some of the high end custom makers, and some of our knowledgeable members, point out that, for reasons having to with the geometry of, for example, the tilting barrel, barrels shorter than the Commander or, in the opinion of some, shorter than four inches, tend to have more problems
• One of our well-known members is an instructor who has observed many people put many, many rounds through their pistols, and he has observed more failures in 1911-type pistols than in some others
• While the original Colt automatic performed very well for the day in the 1910 Army evaluation tests, it seems that the reliability results for Glock pistols are materially better.

I am not stating my opinions here. You can do some searching here and elsewhere on each of these subjects.

What I like about mine is the short, crisp trigger pull. Mine has a 3.9 inch barrel.

Today's models are much improved over the originals. The first I fired was a well-worn 1911A1 that had a terrible trigger and atrocious sights. We all fired one handed then, and it was hard to hit anything with it. A friend's Commander, which served with him in Viet Nam, was better. Another friend had a Colt Gold Cup National Match which was accurate but that was thought to be less reliable and that required target ammo.

As Sam said, choose a good one. Also, buy high-grade magazines.

 

[C0untZer0]

I wanted to emphasize a point that Kleanbore touched on - that of controls.

It seems like people just generally don't focus on how well the controls work for them.

I passed up the 3rd gen Smiths and the Beretta 92 in the mid-80's because when I gave careful consideration to how well I would be able to quickly flip a safety up, I realized I really wasn't very good at it and it would have taken a lot of training to get good at it, and I didn't have any confidence that I would ever become better at operating a flip-up as opposed to a flip-down safety.

 

[Doc7]

I tell you after dealing with the safety on the kimber ultra I thought it was about as intuitive as a safety can be. I'm not concerned about ingraining that into muscle memory after I get training on the appropriate draw method (IF I get a 1911)

 

[Teachu2]

I'd be sorely tempted to get a RIA Tactical in 9mm.....

 

[BSA1]

The good news is there are a lot of very high quality revolvers and semi-automatics to choose from.

The bad news is there are a lot of very high quality revolvers and semi-automatics to choose from.

Worse yet there may not be one "best" choice.

This past weekend I discovered a new "best" choice for me for now, the Sig P239. It is a single stack 9mm with a 8 round magazine. The beauty of it other than a great D.A. & S.A. Trigger pull is it is flat making it a easy handgun to carry.

I am ordering one later this week and will start doing range work to see if it really is my "best" choice.

 

[mac66]

Some things to think about...

-Shooting a pistol is not rocket science. Once you know the mechanics of how every thing works and the fundamentals of pistol marksmanship they are pretty easy to use. You do have to practice occasionally though.

-A 9mm semi auto is probably the best compromise of power, capacity, controlability, availability and price of ammo in a self defense pistol.

-Find a pistol that is comfortable for you. If a Glock isn't comfortable, try an XD, or S&W, or Beretta, or Sig etc, etc.

-Most people start out with full size pistols to carry. They are easier to shoot well than a compact pistol. As the novelty of carrying wears off almost everyone opts for something more convenient, lighter and easier to carry. This usually coincides with becoming more experienced and competent shooters.

Some other basic concepts of self defense....

1. Any gun is better than no gun
2. Nobody wants to get shot
3. The mere presence of a gun stops most situations (see #2 above)
4. However, you must be ready, willing and able to use your gun when the time comes.
5. Hits count. Shot placement is more important than caliber

 

[Warp]

I picked...and bought...my first carry gun...hell, my first gun...without having EVER before fired an actual firearm.

To this day...9 years later...it is still my favorite carry gun and my "if I could only have one" gun.

(Glock 26)

 

[Black Knight]

It seems to me you have already decided on your gun, the Kimber. Nothing wrong with carrying a 1911 design. I have one as well (not a Kimber but a Colt) and it was quite a while before I became comfortable carrying it cocked and locked. I see you are moving to Virginia so I have to ask where in Virginia are you moving to? I ask because if you are in the Charlottesville area there is the Rivanna Rifle and Pistol Club that is worth checking out. Oh and one more thing Welcome to Virginia.

 

[Kleanbore]

Several years ago, people shooting Kimbers were experiencing an unacceptable number of reliability issues. I chose a different manufacturer.

I have not kept up with the situation, but I would advise doing enough due diligence checking to assure yourself before committing.

 

[Doc7]

I haven't truly decided - that particular Kimber being the only
1911 and 45 acp I have shot I still have to decide if that style is right for me, and I don't think I would get the ultra model instead looking for a Commander or possibly a CCO style 1911 if that's what I end up with.

 

[Warp]

Several years ago, people shooting Kimbers were experiencing an unacceptable number of reliability issues. I chose a different manufacturer.

I have not kept up with the situation, but I would advise doing enough due diligence checking to assure yourself before committing.

From what I have seen, it hasn't changed.

Kimber...what can I say about Kimber...they have a great marketing department

 

[BSA1]

You are getting really good advice.

One point I would add is everything in a handgun is a compromise. For example the 1911 is a great time proven design and can be very accurate such as my Colt Gold Cup. But the trade off is they are large framed heavy handguns. They can be and are carried concealed if the owner is willing to invested in a quality holster, belt and changing their clothing to conceal it. Serious thought should given about how you need to dress on warm days especially in hot humid dog days of summer. The gun you shoot best is a poor choice for c.c. if it is left at home due to it being too hot to wear concealment garments

If you can only carry one gun year round (nothing wrong with that) then a smaller gun is probably a better choice for ease of conceal ability in different styles of dress. Remember that SIG P239 I talked about earlier. It is unlikely to see much if any c.c. this summer with 90 & 100 degrees common. For those blistering hot days I'll probably slip a stainless steel J-Frame on my belt.

 

[PabloJ]

There are plenty of choices out there. I would get SR9c with stainless slide (the blackened one on my LCP used to oxidize badly). Other makers like Glock, S&W, H&K, FNH, Springfield Armory,....also make similar guns. While 1911 style pistol makes for fine range gun it makes extremely poor choice for CCW. This is hardly surprising as 1911 was military pistol designed to be carried in flap holster with an empty chamber.

 

[Sam1911]

While 1911 style pistol makes for fine range gun it makes extremely poor choice for CCW.

Actually, it makes an extremely GOOD choice for CCW, if you have a good one that runs well. Easy to shoot, and shoot well, and about the easiest carrying full-sized gun out there.

But not everyone's choice, certainly.

 

[Joe Demko]

about the easiest carrying full-sized gun out there

I was with you right up to here. I have two 1911's and I like them very much. However, I would say they are equal in ease, or difficulty if you prefer, of carry with any of the other full-sized handguns that have passed through my hands.

 

[camsdaddy]

"There is no "rapid fire." Every shot should be taken with a level of sight picture (or point, if you're into point-shooting) that is appropriate to the difficulty of the shot. "

Thanks this is very useful
I could have saved thousands and thousands of dollars and time had someone taught me this when I began shooting.

 

[coma]

As far as I can recommend for a carry gun. Find the simplest mode of action (or fire control what ever you want to call it) that is comfortable and functions all the time. The gun should feel like part of your hand or at least very comfortable.

If you want the least amount of input to make the gun function, that also is exactly the same each and every trigger pull.

Smith and Wesson M&P series
Glock
Walther p99 or variant
Some type of Revolver

Then Lots and Lots of range time. And work on basic skills (trigger control, draw to fire and reloads)

For the future or right now if you choose:
Since the feel and function of the 1911 worked well for you.

Look at the SIG P220 or Sig P226 for full sized guns and then the P229 or P239 for mid sized carry guns.
While a traditional DA/SA gun there is a little more learning curve with them.

The 1911 would still be a great choice but as others before me stated they do require more training and thought process under stress.

Most of all pick a gun you can afford, and afford to shoot lots of ammo through. Practice with any gun is better than not practicing with the "perfect" or "coolest" high priced custom.

As for "rapid fire" remember this slow is smooth~smooth is fast. And that will come with practice

 

[1911 guy]

Quote:
While 1911 style pistol makes for fine range gun it makes extremely poor choice for CCW

Only if you are the intellectual inferior of a farmboy with a sixth grade education. Lots of them used the 1911 just fine through two world wars and Korea. Of course by Viet-Nam the military required a H.S. diploma or GED. Now we have college graduates who are convinced the pistol is some complex piece of arcane machinery that can be mastered only by the elite or alchemists of the handgun world. "This is how it works. Do it this way. If it fouls up, reload it." That, according to my own Grandfather, was the extent of the training he received with a 1911.

And size? The hardest part to conceal is grip frame and thickness. Frame footprint is a draw with most other popular guns, not counting the pocket guns. Thickness? Way thinner than the vaunted Glock, most Sigs, etc.

 

[Doc7]

Then Lots and Lots of range time.


For the future or right now if
Most of all pick a gun you can afford, and afford to shoot lots of ammo through.

This makes me lean towards a budget model like an RIA while I am in the Skills Acquisition phase - seems like it will give me five or six hundred dollars at least of more practice ammo.

 

[Doc7]

I do have 2300 dollars total saved up for this. So I could get a more expensive model and still have plenty of money to buy 500 breakin / practice rounds and a 500 carry ammo rounds right off the bat. It just means I will not be able to go to a 3 day 600 dollar training class any time soon.