Something between 7.62x39 and .308...

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we became a whooshy society more now it appears, next will think the ar 15 is going to kick to much :uhoh:from some future laser pulse weapon with no recoil
Look, if you just want to thump your chest and proclaim what a man's man you are, there are threads for that too. That's not what this thread is about.
 
I like guns that recoil a lot when I'm goofing around, or when I need the added horsepower for a specific job, but a light little rifle that shoots a good deer bullet out to 250-300 yards and won't beat you up? What's not to like? I use 7.62x39 for deer a lot, it works great, and if i could have 250-300fps more without moving up to a 308 class rifle I'd be all over it. In fact, that 30 arx looks very interesting to me. As a side note, i found myself shooting multiple boxes of x39 through my cz and not even thinking about recoil, whereas 100 through the 30-06 I'd be feeling by the end of it. Sometimes its fun to just shoot alot on a deer hunt after the deer are down, why waste the time outside?
 
Looks like I have some more learnin' to do! Thanks HankC!

Had some fun today playing with 165 SST's out of my 7.62x39, over CFE BLK. It's quite the combination if you haven't tried it yet. Getting 2250 out of my 20" barrel.

Those same bullets, at starting loads, are going 2700 from my .308. For whitetails inside of 300 yards, 2400 with that bullet would be awesome.
 
And a muzzle brake is not the solution for hunting
agreed, i have one on my new 7mm and while it reduces my perceived recoil to less than my 6.5x284, or perhaps even my 6.5CM, the muzzle blast is abusive to say the least. Theres no way id hunt with that rifle and anyone else, and I wouldnt fire it without hearing protection in.

No mention of 7.62x40 WT? x40 is definitely between x39 and x51!
https://www.wilsoncombat.com/7-62x40-wt-rifles/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62×40mm_Wilson_Tactical
Gains some velocity over x39 and 300 BLK with a case longer than 300 BLK (1.565 vs 1.368)! Just like 300 BLK, case can be made from 5.56 case which is a great advantage!
Im considering that round for the rebarrel on my 6x47 when i get bored with it again, i did some research on just lengthening the chamber of my old RAR in .300 aac to the x40 but didnt do it.
I have a longer mag in the 700, and could get a longer throat cut to push bullets out to 2.5 or more. According to QL that should push 150s somewhere between 2350/2400 from a 20" barrel, with common powders.
 
Do you not see a connection between a rifle that is enjoyable to shoot, and an effective day to day deer rifle? If not, I am sorry you can't see the connection.

Like I said, there is a reason the .243 is such a popular deer cartridge, and the reason rhymes with "treefoil" LOL

I always saw the 243 as another flat shooting round for re-loaders to play with unless we're talking about women and children.

Even a lightweight 308 doesn't kick anymore than your typical pump 12 gauge shotgun with bird shot, and I could shoot one of those all day when I was a 130lb teenager.

Just get a high quality recoil pad and some Midol. you'll be fine!
 
I always saw the 243 as another flat shooting round for re-loaders to play with unless we're talking about women and children.

Even a lightweight 308 doesn't kick anymore than your typical pump 12 gauge shotgun with bird shot, and I could shoot one of those all day when I was a 130lb teenager.

Just get a high quality recoil pad and some Midol. you'll be fine!

You guys don't even realize it's not me we're talking about here. LOL

I'm 6'4" and 210. I could thump my chest and talk about shooting 300 win mags in 6 lb. mountain rifles all day long if I wanted to.

Not the point gents.
 
we became a whooshy society more now it appears, next will think the ar 15 is going to kick to much :uhoh:from some future laser pulse weapon with no recoil

I always saw the 243 as another flat shooting round for re-loaders to play with unless we're talking about women and children.

Not to derail the thread that NtS has been doing a good job of steering back on track, but ive always been bothered by the mentality behind statement like that, and ive seen it written and heard it said alot.

Recoil is subjective, doing stuff that hurts suxs, so unless your paying me to do it or I have a damn good reason I wont, nor will I expect anyone else to. My wife will happily and comfortably shoot any rifle I own (thankfully shes tall, so my stocks arent overly long for her), she even shot my 11lb .338L a couple times before deciding she didnt like it, It took one round for me to not want anymore (I still shot the 30ish rounds it came with just because). Ive had some kids shoot some of my larger rifles, and be ok with them, Ive had some that werent.
Ive also known a guy who thought his model 7 in 7-08 was plenty enough, and shot a 20g for birds because a couple boxes into a day of dove flights his arm hurt from a 12ga. I applaud his choice to move to lower recoiling guns.
I have a few friends who only fire their rifles while hunting, so sometimes once or twice every 3 or 4 years, they all prefer and shoot better with smaller guns...a .308s a big gun with that group.
Ive also seen, and hunted, with guys that have a serious flinch. Ive never seen a hunter with a .243 or similar have one.

Shoot what you want, and are comfortable with. In fact i generally suggest people shoot the largest cartridge they are comfortable with unless they are very confident of their abilities.
But dont belittle anyone for choosing a lighter recoiling cartridge.
 
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Not to derail the thread that NtS has been doing a good job of steering back on track, but ive always been bothered by the mentality behind statement like that, and ive seen it written and heard it said alot.

Recoil is subjective, doing stuff that hurts suxs, so unless your paying me to do it or I have a damn good reason I wont, nor will I expect anyone else to. My wife will happily and comfortably shoot any rifle I own (thankfully shes tall, so my stocks arent overly long for her), she even shot my 11lb .338L a couple times before deciding she didnt like it, It took one round for me to not want anymore (I still shot the 30ish rounds it came with just because). Ive had some kids shoot some of my larger rifles, and be ok with them, Ive had some that werent.
Ive also known a guy who thought his model 7 in 7-08 was plenty enough, and shot a 20g for birds because a couple boxes into a day of dove flights his arm hurt from a 12ga. I applaud his choice to move to lower recoiling guns.
I have a few friends who only fire their rifles while hunting, so sometimes once or twice every 3 or 4 years, they all prefer and shoot better with smaller guns...a .308s a big gun with that group.
Ive also seen, and hunted with guys, that have a serious flinch, ive never seen a hunter with a .243 or similar have one.

Shoot what you want, and are comfortable with. In fact i generally suggest people shoot the largest cartridge they are comfortable with unless they are very confident of their abilities.
But dont belittle anyone for choosing a lighter recoiling cartridge.
What physically able grown man that's not a senior wouldn't be comfortable with a 308? This is a round that a child can shoot. I must be missing something.

My handle is "big mike." I got that nickname because I'm 5'7" 160lbs
 
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What physically able grown man that's not a senior wouldn't be comfortable with a 308?
We get it Bigmike. You're a tough guy. Good for you.

How did this (once again) get to be about recoil? That's only looking at part of the question.

I asked the question what 30 cal lies between the 7.62x39 and .308 and your answer is suck it up and shoot the .308. LOL
 
What physically able grown man that's not a senior wouldn't be comfortable with a 308?

Someone who dosent shoot very often, or like the guy with the 7-08 who is just recoil sensitive, or someone who IS comfortable with it and just chooses a lighter caliber.The reason dosent matter, its their choice, and as long as they can do what needs doing with what they brought they have a right to use what ever they want.

Also i wasnt clear but pain dosent have to be the indicator of what someone shoots well. Have you ever fired a 6-6.5lb .308? They dont hurt (to me), but they also move around alot more then a 7 or 8lb gun. Im much more confident taking a shot with a 8lb .308 than a 6.5lb .308.
SO blatant statement is that anyone can comfortably shoot SOME .308 or other, but not everyone can shoot every .308.
 
We get it Bigmike. You're a tough guy. Good for you.

How did this (once again) get to be about recoil? That's only looking at part of the question.

I asked the question what 30 cal lies between the 7.62x39 and .308 and your answer is suck it up and shoot the .308. LOL

Nothing

You can load a 7.62x39 pretty close to a low ball 308. We're talking a few hounded foot pounds.
 
I put a recoil pad on my 30-30 win Marlin 36 G carbine not because of the recoil but the stock was to short for me and has a hard plastic butt plate, ouch. The recoil pad gives a better length of pull so I can seat the stock firmly in my shoulder.
I felt more recoil from the 30-30 with a short stock than my 308 win bolt action with a longer length stock.
So what I'm getting at is a well fitted stock will make a big difference to you in felt recoil but may not for other folks shooting your rifle.
 
If you would like to learn to flinch you can come shoot my 444 marlin that calculates out to 45 ft lbs of recoil with the original recoil pad. One of the guys I hunt with had a minor stroke a few years ago and stopped hunting because of concern that recoil could cause him to have another stroke. I also know a guy that shoots a lead sled out of his deer stand because he has an old neck injury that causes him to get severe migraines from rifle recoil.

Back to the topic at hand, I was going to bring up the 7.62x40WT but the load data from wilson looked pretty anemic. Didn't look like it would really exceed standard pressure 7.62x39. Anybody have one?
 
My ql projections say it should be similar to the x39 when running a 2.26 coal. The coal makes a huge difference in this round because the bullets nearly as wide as the case. So if you go to a flat base 150 and load it just to the base of the neck it comes out around 2.4ish. giving you back a fairly considerable percentage of capacity.
Again unless were talking a.mini length action going to a full length 556 or 6.8 case and improving it would probably get a 2400 to 2450, or slightly more with the 6.8case, if you keep the bullet out of the powder capacity....thinking about that, a .30 grendel might do better than id originaly thought, tho i still think a 30br would probably be as good or better.

Bah i need my son to go to sleep so i can go play on the computer LOL!
 
No mention of 7.62x40 WT? x40 is definitely between x39 and x51!
https://www.wilsoncombat.com/7-62x40-wt-rifles/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62×40mm_Wilson_Tactical
Gains some velocity over x39 and 300 BLK with a case longer than 300 BLK (1.565 vs 1.368)! Just like 300 BLK, case can be made from 5.56 case which is a great advantage! I probably would jump on it if it goes SAAMI.

Father in law has one (a Wilson Arms upper with a Noveske barrel in 7.62x40) and I have fired it some. Very accurate within the two hundred yard range where I fired it. Not much recoil and probably close to the most power you can get from the AR 15 limits on OAL and feeding. Recoil to me felt about the same as my 6.8 SPC.

Downside other than the lower is that it is a proprietary platform. Cases are expensive, parts are expensive, dies, etc. You can reform brass but it can be a pain versus simply loading something off of the shelf. The only cheap thing about the platform is the availability of .308 bullets for handloading.

At a certain point, if you are shooting in volume, just cheaper and easier to move to the AR-10 and its .308 variants. If it becomes a SAAMI cartridge and parts available from others then it would be an excellent choice. Otherwise, it is kind of like the .30 AR Remington, a lonely cartridge appreciated by a few. My father in law bought it for deer hunting as he is getting up there in years and found shooting his lightweight .270 deer rifle unpleasant.
 
300 savage, 30-30, 7mm-08 all seem to fit your description. Reloading is the next way to get something exactly the way you want, download or max load as you see fit with the type of bullet you want.

If you want something just to be different, dont forget about 30-30 AI.
 
The 6.5 Grendel is shown below sandwiched between a 7.62 NATO and a 5.56 NATO...

The 6.5 Grendel easily maintains 1,000 foot pounds of energy out past 300 yards, has very low felt recoil (similar to the 5.56), and it’s short efficient case fits in a standard AR action. The 6.5mm bullets have higher ballistic coefficient numbers than the 30 calibers, so they will hold onto velocity for longer distances.

More than enough for any whitetail or hog out there, and 6.5s are becoming the choice of long range shooters (6.5 Creedmoor).

Edmo


3355EFD1-7044-4B93-8DEC-27AF7B1C8DBB.jpeg
 
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So a 30 Grendel is essentially a 7.62x39 AI. Am I right about that?

I don't think a 30 grendel exists, I just made up that term. The 30 ARX I posted would essentially be a "30 Grendel".

It would basically be an improved 7.62x39, but unlike the Ackley improved cartridges I don't think you could fire form it using standard 7.62x39 ammo since the headspace would be wrong. You would need to get 6.5 Grendel brass and run them through the 30 ARX sizing die to open up the neck, and load them.
 
My ql projections say it should be similar to the x39 when running a 2.26 coal. The coal makes a huge difference in this round because the bullets nearly as wide as the case. So if you go to a flat base 150 and load it just to the base of the neck it comes out around 2.4ish. giving you back a fairly considerable percentage of capacity.
Again unless were talking a.mini length action going to a full length 556 or 6.8 case and improving it would probably get a 2400 to 2450, or slightly more with the 6.8case, if you keep the bullet out of the powder capacity....thinking about that, a .30 grendel might do better than id originaly thought, tho i still think a 30br would probably be as good or better.

Bah i need my son to go to sleep so i can go play on the computer LOL!

The nice thing about the 7.62x40wt is the 223 bolt face so they can run full pressure in an AR15, whereas the Grendel case is limited to 52,000 psi due to the locking lug strength. The 30 BR is a 308 bolt face and I know its been done before but the bolt thrust is way over the design limit of the AR15 locking lugs. I think they make a special large diameter bolt and barrel extension or something for it.

Here is another one I forgot about, 30 Herrett AR. Its a 6.8 spc resized in a 30 herrett sizing die. The 30 Herrett was originally a wildcat for the contender pistol. You can see a loaded one to the left in my signature image. Its a peach.

http://68forums.com/forums/showthread.php?49363-30-Herrett-AR

Sorry to keep dragging the AR15 into it, thats the only platform that interests me in such a cartridge.
 
I'm a little late to this party, but I would say instead of looking for another cartridge, just get some .308 that's loaded to whatever it is that's above 7.62x39. I take it you are looking for something around 2500-2600 fps and with a 150 grain bullet? That can easily be achieved with starting loads for .308 Winchester.

In the event that 7.62x39 ammo becomes more expensive due to tariffs or import restrictions/sanctions, I was going to get a .308 Ruger Predator instead of the 7.62 American because if I'm forced to reload a cartridge to lower cost, I'd rather do it with .308 than 7.62x39 given it's greater range and capabilities.

So, either .308 or use 7.62x39 in your "comfort zone."
 
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