Something interesting from the DOJ

[hso]

Keeping an eye on the opponents of RKBA is important. To that end, reports from the DOJ are valuable to keep up with.

This one is particularly interesting since the DOJ is supporting and performing studies on violence involving firearms and on prevention of violence involving firearms.


https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles...livery&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=articles

For a quarter century, studies supported by the National Institute of Justice (NIJ) have made clear that multifaceted, data-driven, strategic approaches to firearms violence research have the potential to stem gun traffic, cut down on shootings, and save lives. In several communities, they have already done so.

A recent exhaustive study of motivations for gun possession and use by young people in violence-torn sections of three New York City boroughs confirms that fear and the desire for physical safety, more than any criminal inclination, drive young people to carry and use firearms. Another recent NIJ-supported study, made possible by quantum leaps in computing power, has harnessed big data to help measure the impact of socioeconomic factors and specific physical features of an urban environment—like gas stations and overgrown lots—on gun violence.

More new research has examined how delinquent youths’ firearm involvement influences later criminal gun use and their own victimization in young adulthood. And yet another recent NIJ-supported project has helped illuminate the illicit procurement path of guns used in street crimes. The vast majority of those guns come from illegal sources, and the study traced how they move through underground markets, with an eye toward refined interdiction strategies.

 

[TimRB]

Yet ANOTHER study that shows what law-abiding gun owners have known for years...

Tim

 

[JN01]

These findings, the authors concluded, suggest a fundamental shift in the ways that crime guns are acquired. In contrast to the old pattern, when guns were often purchased through federally licensed dealers, it is now very rare for a crime gun to be bought new from a gun dealer in a documented sale.[5] Because other intermediaries in the underground market are now in place—straw purchasers, brokers, and traffickers—it is important for law enforcement to focus on those groups, the research suggests, in order to reduce gang access to guns.

The reviewed catalog of research also shows that illegally acquired firearms are disproportionately related to firearm violence in the United States, as compared to those acquired legally.

As both the NIJ research archive and newer studies suggest, the criminal justice system is in a unique position to help prevent firearm violence by focusing on high-risk individuals in gun crime-ridden communities.

Nice to see a focus on reality rather than more junk science propaganda calling for more feel-good, do-nothing gun control.

 

[reddog81]

Nice to see a focus on reality rather than more junk science propaganda calling for more feel-good, do-nothing gun control.

Don't jump to that conclusion too quickly. The first thing I think of when I read your highlighted portions is that gun control advocates will use that research to push for universal background checks and other similar laws in order to make it harder for criminals to get guns. We all know that it'll have zero impact on crime, but their mentality is that "we need to do something". And if that something only makes it harder for law abiding citizens they don't really care.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Ahhhh...you see the synergy with the Militant Green agenda too. By blaming gun violence on gas stations, they can argue that the answer is fewer gas stations, ergo fewer ICE cars and more mandated EVs.

For the children, of course.

 

[Sniper66]

Another example of how yet another Federal bureaucracy is being politicized to attack "gun violence". It is so tiresome to hear, yet again, that "poverty" is the cause, yet they offer no solutions that address poverty. Guns, guns, guns are the only problem!!!

 

[MedWheeler]

There's also the frequent argument that the guns being used in the violence in more-restrictive locales come from those locales in which gun-ownership rights are more protected. What those arguments don't address is why those guns have to travel so far to be used in crime (why aren't they being used illicitly "closer to home" with similar frequencies?)

 

[JN01]

Don't jump to that conclusion too quickly. The first thing I think of when I read your highlighted portions is that gun control advocates will use that research to push for universal background checks and other similar laws in order to make it harder for criminals to get guns.

The report is saying that criminals rarely obtain firearms through legal channels, so it wouldn't support their hypothesis.

Having said that, gun control advocates certainly won't be swayed by this report. They don't care about facts, but if they want them, they will make some up to fit their narrative.

 

[DoubleMag]

The first thing I think of when I read your highlighted portions is that gun control advocates will use that research to push for universal background checks and other similar laws in order to make it harder for criminals to get guns. We all know...

Having said that, gun control advocates certainly won't be swayed by this report. They don't care about facts, but if they want them, they will make some up to fit their narrative.

Yes yes exactly, even if a choir of heralding angels appeared and quoted facts, they would 'twist' it & 'spin' it. Whip up another batch of fudge. Cook the books. Led the sled, reset the scales.

WHAT IS WORSE, here it is....there is a LARGE group that would BELIEVE IT.

 

[rust collector]

Yes, as a society we have become immune to studies and solutions that do not agree with our preconceived notions.

 

[Archie]

Just another example and proof of human misbehavior must be addressed and not inanimate objects.
Matthew 15:19 "For out of the heart come evil ideas, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. (20) These are the things that defile a person; it is not eating with unwashed hands that defiles a person.” ("Heart" here used in the sense of center of desires, motivations and acts.)
If this seems overly 'religious', I mean not to offend; just to demonstrate what I said is NOT a new and novel idea.

 

[bassjam]

The report is saying that criminals rarely obtain firearms through legal channels, so it wouldn't support their hypothesis.

Having said that, gun control advocates certainly won't be swayed by this report. They don't care about facts, but if they want them, they will make some up to fit their narrative.

But let's be honest: A FTF sale in a Walmart parking lot, where the buyer is a felon but lies and says he isn't IS an illegal channel.

I might actually be OK with "universal background checks" but only if it was available to everyone to use on their own, 24/7, with no charge, and no record of the check, and only if we got something else in return like removing suppressors off the NFA list. A lot of local sellers will only sell firearms to those that have a conceal carry license, which is really just their own form of a background check.

 

[theotherwaldo]

-This does not mean that the DOJ is in any way interested in prosecuting actual violent criminals who use firearms in actual crimes - which might actually reduce the actual use of firearms in crimes... .

 

[JN01]

Maybe. They have done so in the past, such as Project Exile where they made Federal gun prosecutions in high crime cities resulting in crime rate drops.

 

[Moparnut]

But let's be honest: A FTF sale in a Walmart parking lot, where the buyer is a felon but lies and says he isn't IS an illegal channel.

I might actually be OK with "universal background checks" but only if it was available to everyone to use on their own, 24/7, with no charge, and no record of the check, and only if we got something else in return like removing suppressors off the NFA list. A lot of local sellers will only sell firearms to those that have a conceal carry license, which is really just their own form of a background check.

The problem is neither side will never agree to this. Universal background checks or removing any items from the NFA. I have said I would pay a $10 tax on ALL firearm purchases, so long as I could buy whatever I want (suppressors, full auto) Said it one day in front of someone who is a 2A supporter and you would have thought I just murdered his dog. Both sides have stalemated. Sorry for the rant.

Anyway, I have noticed some people being more objective about these things, maybe folks will start to come around. Unfortunately, others will still be staunchly on one side or the other, no matter what studies tell them.

 

[Steve S.]

Humans are designed to be both thinking and feeling animals - the minority think their way thru life but sadly, most feel their way thru life. The gun issue has successfully been defined as a feeling issue for most (like the mother that defends a son’s bad behavior at all cost) - their simply is no discussion - you cannot reason with feelings - feelings are the greatest of deniers, the great blinder.

 

[theotherwaldo]

Maybe. They have done so in the past, such as Project Exile where they made Federal gun prosecutions in high crime cities resulting in crime rate drops.

-Then they cancelled the program because of the appearance of racial inequality... .

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Firearms use by offenders, surveys of prisoners who possessed or used a firearm in the crime for which they were in prison, have been done by Department of Justice, National Institute of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, every six or seven years.

Thirty years ago, about 1 out of 5 acquired firearms from retail outlets (gun shop, pawn shop, gun show, flea market). Most recent survey that's down to 1 out of 10. As Profs James Wright and Peter Rossi pointed out in the first survey, most criminals acquire firearms from hard to regulate sources in hard to regulate ways.

 

[DustyGmt]

Don't jump to that conclusion too quickly. The first thing I think of when I read your highlighted portions is that gun control advocates will use that research to push for universal background checks and other similar laws in order to make it harder for criminals to get guns. We all know that it'll have zero impact on crime, but their mentality is that "we need to do something". And if that something only makes it harder for law abiding citizens they don't really care.

True. Yep, doesn't matter if it manifests in any real concrete results of any kind, as long as it feels good and anti gun activist feel like they've struck a blow against the white male gun toting patriarchy that's all that matters.

VT was always a private sale, no BG check needed state, in fact out violent crime is almost non existent and gun crime even less so, yet for the appeasement effort for feel good, do nothing anti's we passed a full package of gun control including UBC. Guess what? Vermont was a safe place to live and consistently ranked as one of the safest places to live before the measures passed and nothing has changed since, except the anti gun libs feel like they won a big victory against the "bad gun people".

I've heard people make concerning remarks to the effect of "so it makes it a lil more inconvenient for people, big deal, if it stops just one criminal from obtaining a gun it's worth it".

I hate that "just one" argument repeated by ignorant people. What if it doesn't stop one person from doing anything but inconveniences and infringes on an entire states people from freely trading/selling their own private property and makes an act that most and if not most, alot of people will just disregard and carry on as normal in violation of a law that did nothing to protect anybody, but put otherwise ordinary law abiding people at risk of being in violation of the law.

One of our VT politicians made this argument before the legislature and said the average"druggie with a stolen or illegally obtained gun meeting a dealer in a Wal mart parking lot to trade guns for drugs isn't going to yield to any of these proposed laws".

 

[DeepSouth]

Yes, as a society we have become immune to studies and solutions that do not agree with our preconceived notions.

When I first read this I thought, yep we have become a society of confirmation bias, facts no longer matter to many if not most people.

Then I thought about all the obviously false studies and manipulated statistics we see. And I thought, you know it’s not entirely our fault. We’ve caught so many trying to manipulate us we simply find it easier to either trust no one or, revert to confirmation bias.

I didn’t bother to comment, as it’s only half gun related and not overly productive either, that was a couple days ago.

Then today I see something in my YouTube recommendations that took my mind straight back to this issue, and I think it’s worth sharing.

 

[rust collector]

When I first read this I thought, yep we have become a society of confirmation bias, facts no longer matter to many if not most people.

Then I thought about all the obviously false studies and manipulated statistics we see. And I thought, you know it’s not entirely our fault. We’ve caught so many trying to manipulate us we simply find it easier to either trust no one or, revert to confirmation bias.

I didn’t bother to comment, as it’s only half gun related and not overly productive either, that was a couple days ago.

Then today I see something in my YouTube recommendations that took my mind straight back to this issue, and I think it’s worth sharing.

The video was thought provoking and reminds us that "simple facts" aren't. The takeaway is use the best tools you have, work to improve them, and acknowledge that perfection is impossible unless you are Gaston Glock.

 

[wally]

Keeping an eye on the opponents of RKBA is important. To that end, reports from the DOJ are valuable to keep up with.

This one is particularly interesting since the DOJ is supporting and performing studies on violence involving firearms and on prevention of violence involving firearms.


https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles...livery&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=articles

They could save a ton of Taxpayer money and stop with the "studies" and implement the one "program" that was proven to actually reduce crimes involving firearms in the 90s: "Project Exile" delivered clearly measurable results as a pilot program and immediately ignored by the Clinton Administration and the Bush Administration after that! I had hopes that Trump would have picked up on it, but he didn't.

https://www.policechiefmagazine.org...odel-for-firearms-crime-reduction-strategies/

 

[buck460XVR]

Yes, as a society we have become immune to studies and solutions that do not agree with our preconceived notions.

^^^This....and we have become a society that only listens to those voices that reinforce those preconceived notions. We have become the choir that wants to be preached to so we can heartily cheer "Amen!", yet we rarely practice what we preach. One only has to watch CNN and Fox to realize that in many cases, the truth is what we want to hear. I will bet, that if these studies that the DOJ strongly support, produces conclusions we do not want to hear, that they too, will become lies to many, and will be heavily chastised here and quickly turned political. We have to be willing to accept the truth, even when it does not fit our agenda....and I doubt this society ever will. Especially when it comes to Firearms and their ownership. Just too much emotion involved on both sides.

 

[230RN]

There's also the frequent argument that the guns being used in the violence in more-restrictive locales come from those locales in which gun-ownership rights are more protected. What those arguments don't address is why those guns have to travel so far to be used in crime (why aren't they being used illicitly "closer to home" with similar frequencies?)
(Underlining mine)

To my mind, this is a really significant point which we ought to hammer home at every opportunity. However, those opportunities are stymied by an all-powerful Left-leaning propaganda machine which affects our country like a bone cancer.

I wish I'd thought of it, Medwheeler. Kudos for bringing it out.

Terry, 230RN

 

[Insignificant bill]

But let's be honest: A FTF sale in a Walmart parking lot, where the buyer is a felon but lies and says he isn't IS an illegal channel.

I might actually be OK with "universal background checks" but only if it was available to everyone to use on their own, 24/7, with no charge, and no record of the check, and only if we got something else in return like removing suppressors off the NFA list. A lot of local sellers will only sell firearms to those that have a conceal carry license, which is really just their own form of a background check.

Uh no the government cannot be trusted with that information in a database