Something to Ponder

It should be in every box, as a sticky. Anyone carrying a gun needs to read it. :thumbup:

And I realize this is a "gun board", and guns seem to be the only answer to all problems, but "the gun" isnt the only part of "the package" here.
 
The biggest omission in that article IMHO is that you need to honestly know your limitations.

If you can't reliably and consistently make a 40 yard shot then you should not try a 40 yard shot except during practice.

If you can't reliably and consistently make a 15 yard head shot then don't try a 15 yard head shot except during practice.

The most important factor of which you should be aware (see Miss May, I do remember what you taught me in Kindergarten) are your real capabilities and limitations with the tools you have at a given moment under the conditions at that moment.

Know when to act and when to watch.
 
The serious armed citizen will select clothing that allows him or her to carry a more substantial pistol because they know the importance of being able to make precise shots out to 25 yards and vital-zone hits to 50 yards.

There's some good stuff in the article, especially about not every defensive problem requires a firearm to respond to, but almost (almost) all civilian defensive handgun shooting occurs within "bad breath" range. Certainly within 10 yards, not 25 or 50. It is vanishingly rare for a civilian to need to shoot defensively at a threat 50 or 25 yards away (mall food court's being the possible exception).

Having options beyond the magic talisman of carrying a gun is important for folks interested in self defense. We have a whole forum focused on non firearms weapons with a heavy emphasis on what tools like OC spray, tasers, hide in plain sight impact tools, etc. can help you defend yourself before having to resort to a firearm.

S&T frequently discusses awareness, assessment, avoidance, withdrawal and their vital self defense roles.

Good summary article of frequently discussed points at THR (except the 25 yard thing).
 
Last edited:
I dont think a lot of people realize just what "real world" distances really are too.

The length of most parking stalls is a 7 yard shot. Across a double parking bay or across the street in a small town, is close to 25. Parking lots are expansive.

The distance between most light/electric poles is around 50 yards.

The average aisle in many big-name grocery stores is a 50 yard shot, or close to it. Across the front of Walmart, 80-100yards.

Longer range shots may be rare, but they do seem to pop up enough to show you do need to be as well versed as possible with what you choose to carry. Im not saying you should probably take a 50 yard shot with that LCP in your pocket, but what if you have to? Have you ever tried, so at least you know what to expect?
 
I dont think a lot of people realize just what "real world" distances really are too.

The length of most parking stalls is a 7 yard shot. Across a double parking bay or across the street in a small town, is close to 25. Parking lots are expansive.

The distance between most light/electric poles is around 50 yards.

The average aisle in many big-name grocery stores is a 50 yard shot, or close to it. Across the front of Walmart, 80-100yards.

Longer range shots may be rare, but they do seem to pop up enough to show you do need to be as well versed as possible with what you choose to carry. Im not saying you should probably take a 50 yard shot with that LCP in your pocket, but what if you have to? Have you ever tried, so at least you know what to expect?

The few times I've been confronted by the criminal element (one time at gunpoint), they always got as close as possible. They'd "cross that small town street" before they'd start their shenanigans. They simply wouldn't start the attack until they were within "hand over the money" or "give me the keys" range.

Mass shooters would be a different story and something I've never been around. My pocket shooters in my hands with my vision don't exactly reach out and touch 25 yards targets consistently. If I have 25 to 50 yards of distance from a mass shooter, I need to dodge out of there behind concealment or cover until me and mine are gone.
 
Grocery stores, banks, offices, parking lots, whatever, if youre unlucky enough to be there to get it, it just is what it is, and its not your call, you just get what you get, and thats what you get to deal with. Might be something youre always told is all you need plan for, and if your lucky, youre actually ready for that, or it might be something you never imagined, and have never thought to try.

At the very least, you need to stress out the limits of what you carry along with your skills with it in practice beforehand, to at least have a benchmark and baseline, so you can know what to expect there.

And the whole point of pushing the envelope with different things in practice is, and no matter how silly it might seem, its so youve done things in practice that, while not necessarily something specific, scenario wise, its probably similar enough in many ways, and youre familiar and comfortable with shooting in ways you might never have thought to do, and have the knowledge and confidence to do so, should you have to.

Or, you can just wing it. Your call. :p

Seriously though, we all should strive to do the best we can, and even then, no matter how hard you try, there always seems to be more to do, and the older you get, just keeping up can be rough.

One things for sure, there is no end to it.
 
One of the things I learned a long time ago was always be aware of your surroundings. The vast majority of perps are looking for easy marks so if you're constantly looking around and looking directly at everyone in your immediate area they see you as trouble for them and typically leave you alone. The problem is most people are lost in their little worlds and make easy marks.
 
Just an FYI, there are some good points here. Just a reminder to think outside the box...

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/content/what-s-more-important-than-the-gun-you-carry/

Maybe I should have put this under Strategies? Move if needed...

A police officer in Austin, TX, made something like a 50-yard, one-shot stop on a criminal with his duty handgun
Actually it was a 104 yard shot with his duty handgun while holding two horses with his other hand.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/austin-cops-sure-shot-stopped-crazed-gunman
 
Last edited:
I dont think a lot of people realize just what "real world" distances really are too.

The length of most parking stalls is a 7 yard shot. Across a double parking bay or across the street in a small town, is close to 25. Parking lots are expansive.

The distance between most light/electric poles is around 50 yards.

The average aisle in many big-name grocery stores is a 50 yard shot, or close to it. Across the front of Walmart, 80-100yards.

Longer range shots may be rare, but they do seem to pop up enough to show you do need to be as well versed as possible with what you choose to carry. Im not saying you should probably take a 50 yard shot with that LCP in your pocket, but what if you have to? Have you ever tried, so at least you know what to expect?
I agree with the idea of "try(ing), so at least you know what to expect".
 
From the article:
"too many people select a small defensive handgun because it is the what fits best with the style and type of clothing they choose to wear. The serious armed citizen will select clothing that allows him or her to carry a more substantial pistol"
Nailed it.
That could be elaborated...
Some of them will post on gun forums and rather than say I carry ____ because I feel compelled to tuck my shirt when I don't have to or because I'm usually unwilling to wear a holster on belt; Nooo, what gets posted is statistics, anticipated threat (specifically perceived lack of it), maybe a vague "meets my needs".
Less frequently, I have seen some people say, I'm not willing to dress around a gun; hallelujah, the truth.
 
We practice 7yrds and 10yrds regularly (if we ever get the camper unstuck at our range), I would like to add steel targets at 25yrds when we get everything back to normal. I've always been told most bad things happen at 7 yrds and have been training accordingly
 
I've always been told most bad things happen at 7 yrds and have been training accordingly
Both Tom Givens and Rob Pincus have said that most defensive shootings occur at distances closer than seven yards.

Seven yards makes it into the lexicon because a fit adult with a contact weapon can cover that distance in the time needed for an officer to draw and fire. That first shot would be at bad breath distance.
 
From the article:
"too many people select a small defensive handgun because it is the what fits best with the style and type of clothing they choose to wear. The serious armed citizen will select clothing that allows him or her to carry a more substantial pistol"
Nailed it.
Yep see it all the time on the forums. Sometimes I wonder...As far as distances I am well aware of what the statistics say but it sure does not hurt to train for that off chance scenario. People become to complacent in their daily routines imo...
 
"My response to the gear guys has always been, “Don’t tell me what you carry; show me what you can do with it.” And, I would not be interested in knowing what a person did once, but what they can do virtually every time, on demand. A police officer in Austin, TX, made something like a 50-yard, one-shot stop on a criminal with his duty handgun. A church deacon made a 15-yard head shot to stop a killer wielding a shotgun. A citizen in a shopping mall successfully engaged a shooter at something like 40 yards. Can you make those kinds of shots, under that kind of pressure?"

And these are reasons why I no longer carry a "get off me gun" as a primary EDC. I don't shoot them well enough to hit a 25yd gong nor do I want to put in the practice and round count to do so with them.
 
From the article:
"too many people select a small defensive handgun because it is the what fits best with the style and type of clothing they choose to wear. The serious armed citizen will select clothing that allows him or her to carry a more substantial pistol"
Nailed it.
That could be elaborated...
Some of them will post on gun forums and rather than say I carry ____ because I feel compelled to tuck my shirt when I don't have to or because I'm usually unwilling to wear a holster on belt; Nooo, what gets posted is statistics, anticipated threat (specifically perceived lack of it), maybe a vague "meets my needs".
Less frequently, I have seen some people say, I'm not willing to dress around a gun; hallelujah, the truth.

I'm not willing to dress around a full size pistol every waking moment of my life. Is it really a cop out to say a small pistol "meets my needs" walking from the breakfast table to my desk? I'm not even willing to dress around a full size pistol to go to the corner store and get a cup of coffee.
 
357mag158Nosler-1458fps-535-121_2.jpg (1).JPG
Well written article, something I do, mostly 1911s and L-frame Smith and Wesson .357mags; a 686P has a Performance Center hone and polish trigger job, it's fantastic.

I live far out in the country and the .357mag has served me well over the last 50 years, from the city to our ranch. A confirmed canine stock killer was taken at over 100 yards from a 686P/6", a facing, moving coyote at 96 paces from a Colt 1911 in .38Super, headshot. It was a difficult shot, situated its ears equal distance on the front post, 125gr XTP upper 1400s, very flat shooting combination.

Many years ago a shooting partner of mine made a ~100 yard shot from his duty .357mag to save the life of another Trooper. One never knows what the future brings, a few years ago our small pup began barking at a frenetic pace (living in a border county, I carry inside) I went outside to see what was the matter; he was surrounded by 3 put bulls.One looked at me, bared its teeth, snarled, growled and charged...distance from the bore of a Colt 1911 XSE to the head of the pit bull was ~2 feet. The 230gr +P entered the head through its left eye socket. Simultaneously when the shot fired, a second pit bull made contact with me in the groin area, however, the shot scared it away.

A mistake I made was having tunnel vision on #1 attacker, excluding #2 from my situational awareness. If I had a pocket carry, there would not have been enough time to draw and shoot, this was the fastest encounter I have ever experienced, as a senior age guy, I would have been mauled or worse...

For those who are a member of a church security team, practice marksmanship/tactics and practice some more...in our church, an active shooter at 30 yards is a possibility...

Dressing for carry, OWB with a cover garment...new additions for me;

Colt Pythons 3in & 4in.JPG


I still practice double action with .357 ammunition...as a senior. :)
 
This line is absolutely true:

"Regular practice is also more important than what a person chooses to carry."

But "regular" is only one third of the practice triad. The other two are:

1) Practice should focus on skills we suck at. Most probably have a pretty good idea of what these are. Test yourself on these skills cold, before you do any range work, measure the results, and watch for improvement over time.

2) Practice should include some stress. Demonstrate your skills in front of your peers or students once in a while. Take a class that includes a high performance standard.

What you can do on your first draw of the day, under emotional pressure, is all that really matters, right?
 
Back
Top