something to think about gun safes

[silverlance]

been reading a few threads by people who have been broken in to, and had the theft of their guns thwarted by theives. now that thieves have seen their gun safes, they're probably worried about them coming back with tools intent on getting that little gold mine..

so what's a good CHEAP way to blunt their interest in the event that they actually manage to get inside?

on my own cheapie sentry 14-gun safe, which is 3" bolted into the house's concrete foundation, I have the following stickers:
"NO GUNS INSIDE: BUSINESS DOCUMENTS ONLY"

it's also on the right side (left side and back are up against corner walls)
beneath those stickers, in smaller text, there's another sticker:
"WARNING: safe not bolted down. may tip over easily"

I look forward to the hernias.

And what about all the other gun paraphenalia?
Well, all the ammo is in ammo cans and stored locked (bike-chained 3 together, 4 sets of 3) in a cheap "file cabinet" (you know, those really cheap crappy safes that aren't really safes, more like lockers) safe that has a sticker "Family Pictures: No Cash or Guns inside" on it.

Unless the find the empty gun cases and bags that are hidden behind the living room sofa, there's nothing in my house that suggests guns. I also always keep a big stack of confusing "business" papers that I collect from work on top of my gun safe, and a bunch of photo albums (no gun pics of course) on top of my ammo safe. The ammo safe, incidentally, is stored in the "play" room (i have no kids).

My only problem is the mini gun vault that I have chained to three pieces of my bed's steel frame. I have a sticker on it that says "Emergency Documents in Case of Fire" with the picture of a fire on it, but that one might not fool someone as easily. But given that my gun vault seems to be a defective POS that eats up 6 AA batteries every 4 months, I may be getting something that can be hidden anyway....

 

[ArmedBear]

So are these stickers only in English?

Something to think about...

 

[Chipperman]

"WARNING: safe not bolted down. may tip over easily"

I don't know if that is adequate warning. You may have a lawsuit on your hands if the safe falls on top of them.

 

[torpid]

But given that my gun vault seems to be a defective POS that eats up 6 AA batteries every 4 months

You aren't alone there.

.

 

[a1abdj]

I have seen many safes burglarized that display the same type of stickers.

It doesn't really matter what you have inside, as a theif equates a locked safe with millions of dollars inside. That's why it is important if you do have valuables, that you lock them up inside of something that they can't get into.

The best way to prevent a theif from making an attempt on your safe is to keep it a secret. If they don't know that it's there, they won't come looking for it.

People have been killed because somebody saw a safe and told somebody, who told somebody, who told somebody, who then came back to rob the safe owner.

Not only are most gun safes insecure, but they seem to be the first thing everybody shows to everybody else that they know.

 

[Kenneth Lew]

been reading a few threads by people who have been broken in to, and had the theft of their guns thwarted by theives. now that thieves have seen their gun safes, they're probably worried about them coming back with tools intent on getting that little gold mine..

so what's a good CHEAP way to blunt their interest in the event that they actually manage to get inside?

on my own cheapie sentry 14-gun safe, which is 3" bolted into the house's concrete foundation, I have the following stickers:
"NO GUNS INSIDE: BUSINESS DOCUMENTS ONLY"

it's also on the right side (left side and back are up against corner walls)
beneath those stickers, in smaller text, there's another sticker:
"WARNING: safe not bolted down. may tip over easily"

I look forward to the hernias.

And what about all the other gun paraphenalia?
Well, all the ammo is in ammo cans and stored locked (bike-chained 3 together, 4 sets of 3) in a cheap "file cabinet" (you know, those really cheap crappy safes that aren't really safes, more like lockers) safe that has a sticker "Family Pictures: No Cash or Guns inside" on it.

Unless the find the empty gun cases and bags that are hidden behind the living room sofa, there's nothing in my house that suggests guns. I also always keep a big stack of confusing "business" papers that I collect from work on top of my gun safe, and a bunch of photo albums (no gun pics of course) on top of my ammo safe. The ammo safe, incidentally, is stored in the "play" room (i have no kids).

My only problem is the mini gun vault that I have chained to three pieces of my bed's steel frame. I have a sticker on it that says "Emergency Documents in Case of Fire" with the picture of a fire on it, but that one might not fool someone as easily. But given that my gun vault seems to be a defective POS that eats up 6 AA batteries every 4 months, I may be getting something that can be hidden anyway....

Thieves are a little smarter than that. Given adaquate time they will GO THROUGH EVERYTHING. You sentry safe is a tin can with drywall in it. It screams valuables.

 

[Rexrider]

I hate to say but.....

If the bad guys are going to the trouble to bring back the tools needed to open a safe, They are going to open it regardless.

If there was a failed attempt to gain enterance to a safe, that safe would be emptied and the stuffed moved off-site for the time being. The house would be so wired up with alarms and cameras it would look like a TV studio control room.

The safest safe is one nobody knows about.

P.S. Althought the sticker about a bolted safe tipping over is kind of funny. If nothing else at least you get to screw with them a little before they take your stuff.

 

[Remander]

If stickers are the means of deterrent, maybe these will work:

Caution: Live Virus Storage

Caution: Explosives!! (But that may just tempt the idiots)

Caution: AIDS Virus Inside: Do Not Open Before Donning Protective Equipment

Caution: Contents Will Damage Lungs and Eyes Without Protective Equipment


You get the point.

 

[Ifishsum]

A good friend of mine has stickers that say "Warning - Blackpowder - Explosive" on his with the same hope that someone might think twice.

 

[Soybomb]

If I were a criminal I'd want your business documents just as much as I wanted your guns, maybe more.

 

[grimjaw]

The sign should probably say, "SAFE CONTAINS ONLY BUSINESS DOCUMENTS AND CASH; DOG IN NEXT ROOM HAS THE TEETH AND I HAVE GUN UPSTAIRS."

But it would be just as effective as the other signs, I'm afraid.

jmm

 

[silverlance]

absolutely

Zykan - didn't you once post a picture of an expensive liberty safe smashed open with a sledge? the message I got from that was that there is no such thing as a safe (short of a bank vault) that can't be popped open by a sledgehammer. I suppose there might be some in the $15,000 range. but nothing i have is worth that much...

I don't believe for a minute that my sentry is a bank vault. It's designed only to foil the average idiot smash and grab burgular. My m1s90 and yugo sks aren't worth spending more than 500 bucks for anyway. =)

only my friend and gf know about my safe. it's hidden inside my room and not visible from the outside. although my house has ben burgled before, as far as they know i have nothing left to take (no safe then.. duh.)

I also NOW have the preventative works - cameras, dog, double gates, adt alarm, driveway patrol, neighborhood watch, etc. the stickers are pretty much just to add an extra "huh?!" factor to the burglary attempt. and to mess with them a little before they try to get away with my stuff.

I like the "Biohazard" idea! Maybe replace my current labels with spraypainted biohazard signs and big red letters saying "EXTREME DANGER: AIDS VIRUS SAMPLES"

or something like that.

 

[Matthew748]

Here is something I have always wondered about. Is it possible to wire a safe into your house's electrical circuit so that anyone who touches it gets shocked? Obviously, the wiring would have to be done on a side that is not exposed and a switch would have to be installed in another room to cut the circuit.

I am aware that this would cause a major safety hazard, especially if young kids are around, and would probably void your homeowners insurance policy, but its something I have kind of wondered about.

 

[BrianMajors]

Here is something I have always wondered about. Is it possible to wire a safe into your house's electrical circuit so that anyone who touches it gets shocked? Obviously, the wiring would have to be done on a side that is not exposed and a switch would have to be installed in another room to cut the circuit.

I am aware that this would cause a major safety hazard, especially if young kids are around, and would probably void your homeowners insurance policy, but its something I have kind of wondered about.

This is illegal in the United States. The criminal would likely own your home and all of your assets when he was finished, unfortunately.

 

[DirksterG30]

Here is something I have always wondered about. Is it possible to wire a safe into your house's electrical circuit so that anyone who touches it gets shocked? Obviously, the wiring would have to be done on a side that is not exposed and a switch would have to be installed in another room to cut the circuit.

I am aware that this would cause a major safety hazard, especially if young kids are around, and would probably void your homeowners insurance policy, but its something I have kind of wondered about.

Just make sure it's wired for 220!

 

[Janitor]

I am aware that this would cause a major safety hazard, especially if young kids are around, and would probably void your homeowners insurance policy, but its something I have kind of wondered about.

Irresponsible.

If you 'smoked' somebody, you'd be lucky to only end up in civil court loosing everything you own.
-

 

[Rabid Rabbit]

A guy in my squad back in 85 had a half dozen full auto AK, MAC etc.... in his closet. Instead of a safe he had a sign on the closet door informing crooks the guns are full auto steal at risk of having the FBI and ATF look for them. It worked, somebody broke in stole the usual stuff closet door was open but the guns were untouched.

Myself I'm getting a 45 cu ft safe in a couple months.

 

[Byron Quick]

Back in 2003, I stopped by a gun store in Mobile, Alabama. There was a big Liberty Safe there that had been worked over with cutting tools and torches. It hadn't been opened by the thieves. According to the store owner, the safe's owner had found it in this condition after being gone for the weekend. Tools from his workshop had been used.

I'm sure that a thief who knows all the esoterica of safe technology would have opened it with a nail file in under an hour. However, there just aren't that many safe crackers around. With a good safe; I'd be more concerned about someone putting a gun to my head accompanied by a command to open the safe.

 

[lawson]

if someone really wants to get into a safe, they probably will, provided they have the time.

recently, my dad's workshop was burglarized by a former family member who had become addicted to meth. the thief knew exactly what he was looking for (or so he thought). he used bolt cutters to remove the lock from the cabinet where the guns had previously been stored, and removed the locks from the tracks on the garage door so he could back his truck inside. luckily, about a week before the break in, my dad had bought a gun safe to protect his collection. the thief made off with all the power tools in the workshop, but the collection of turn of the century Savage leverguns was spared.

my own gun safe is tucked into the back corner of a closet, obscured by racks of clothing.

 

[SomeKid]

Only sign I might put up, would be a picture of my last target on a good day at the range, or maybe a picture of a bunch of cops, with references to how half of them were family, or notes off where one went FBI, US Marshall...etc.

 

[Kharn]

When I was putting my safe into its closet in my basement, I put a real keyed knob on the door. I figure its cheap insurance (it was only $3-5 more than a normal doorknob) against someone's guest/+1 snooping during a party since the normal bathroom/bedroom-door key/screwdriver tool wont open it.

I may still slap a blackpowder warning sticker on it, or maybe a biohazard one?

Kharn

 

[a1abdj]

Back in 2003, I stopped by a gun store in Mobile, Alabama. There was a big Liberty Safe there that had been worked over with cutting tools and torches. It hadn't been opened by the thieves. According to the store owner, the safe's owner had found it in this condition after being gone for the weekend. Tools from his workshop had been used.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....They Got you!

Every big Liberty dealership has a safe that a "burglar attempted to get into".

What that safe really is, is a unit that got got damaged during the manufacturing process, so they take a hammer and bang it up a little bit, then put a story behind it. The local dealership that I do all of the deliveries for has one that "came out of a bar". Funny thing is, it still has the dial and handles in good working order, which is always the first things to get ripped off in an amateur burglary.

Just because your gun safe looks like a bank vault doesn't mean it is one. The steel used on most gun safes is the same thickness as commercial countertops and burial urns.

RSC rated safes kept a UL technician out for a total of 5 minutes using a SMALL HAMMER AND A SCREWDRIVER! A torch would be overkill.

This is what a liberty safe looks like after an axe/sledge is taken to it:

 

[silverlance]

yup, that's the picture

i was talking about.

bottom line (and i think zykan guy would agree with me) is that you need to decide how much your collection is worth to you, and adjust accordingly.
the vast majority of safes will IMHO not stop a theif with a big fricking sledgehammer, provided he's decently strong and the sledge is a decently good one.

i suppose, of course, that if someone had a safe with at least two inches of steel, you might be able to stop a sledge - or at least make it so difficult to be darn near impossible - but then here you're talking about tens of thousands of dollars in safe metal.

probably the best bet for the guy with a lot to protect would be an under-floor safe that's beneath a locked trapdoor (and ideally the trapdoor would be really really well concealed AND alarmed).

for everybody else, i feel that even 500$ sentry 1/4" boxes will do the trick. spend the rest of the money on house alarm, dog, perimeter alarm, motion lights, and cookies for the neighbors instead.

 

[hso]

"Family Pictures: No Cash or Guns inside"

Yer kiddin', right?

That silliness is the same as the "No officer! Nothin' going on here!!" from the cartoons.

If you can't pay for a real safe/vault (not that any of us can) then your best bet is to use defense in depth so that each layer slows them down and makes them progressivly more concerned about discovery.

Your "signs" are bullseyes. Hide the safes. Make the thiefs look for them. Put them in closets with boxes over them or disguised as something else. Pull the closet door and replace it with a utility grill so that it looks like a gas heating unit.

Put alarms on the door(s) to the residence. Get a dog. Put alarms on the door to the closet that the safe is hidden in and then put a motion alarm on the safe itself so that they have to wade through layers of alarms to get you goodies out.

 

[1 old 0311]

My cheap safe is hidden in the house. In the nightstand I keep a old ratty Taurus 85 and 100.00 in cash. Give them a quick suprise and they will be off to the crack dealer.


Kevin

p.s. The Taurus is loaded with a 'special' home made load.