Sons of Guns - Misuse of Post-Samples

[S.W.G.]

I know there is a lengthy thread on this in the general discusion section, but I wanted to be more specific and focus on the MG's.

In one of the episodes, a LEO has the shop convert a TSMG to full-auto. I don't think it was explicitly stated, but the way I interpreted it Thompson was the LEOs personal gun, and he was having it modified for his personal use.

If this is in fact what happened, I think some noise should be raised about this.

It infuriates me that this LEO is using his 'Special Status' to gain access to guns that we meager peasants can't own.

Normally, I am disgusted when the ATF prosecutes someone under the NFA, but this is a situation where I wouldn't mind seeing this man dragged through the court system.

The way I see it, if I can't have it, neither can he.

There shouldn't be a 'priviledged' class that can enjoy perks forbidden to the citizenry.

What's your take on the situation?

 

[txhoghunter]

I believe that if this was previously his personal gun, it became a department owned firearm due to the modifications. The ATF will not let him own a full-auto manufactured after that cut-off date (can't remember what year, 1980 somethin), even if he is LEO, it must be department owned.

 

[Hanzo581]

Yeah, this has been covered, it was given to him but once converted the ownership was transferred to the police department.

 

[animator]

One area that show disappoints me on is the NFA laws. The way the show goes, it tends to give the impression that anyone can cut a shotgun or rifle barrel down to 8", make a machine gun, or make a suppressor.

Granted, I have not seen every second of every show, but the only time I've ever heard mention of NFA laws was when a guy wanted a SBS for a hunting trip or something, but didn't want to wait for the paperwork process.


I wish they'd at least do a quick mention of the how's and why's of NFA laws any time they create or work on an NFA restricted item.

 

[S.W.G.]

I understand that it is technically a department owned gun, but you also have to consider the LEOs intentions.

He didn't acquire the Thompson for a legitimate police use, he got it for his own entertainment.

I would think that this is akin to a collector getting a Class III license, with the intent of bolstering his own collection rather than operating a buisiness.

 

[Bubbles]

I would think that this is akin to a collector getting a Class III license, with the intent of bolstering his own collection rather than operating a buisiness.

I imagine quite a few do - they just conduct enough business to keep the ATF and IRS satisfied as well.

I mean, in looking at the post-samples a lot of folks have, how many government and/or LE agencies are really interested in purchasing an MG08, MG42, Sten, etc these days?

 

[MrSpiffy]

But it's not in his collection anymore. Once he leaves the force, he probably won't get to shoot it. I understand your frustration at him pulling strings for himself, but hey, that's life. People pull strings for other people from high places (and sometimes for themselves). But again, he doesn't own it anymore. It's not his. In order to convert it to full-auto, he gave up ownership to the PD. You don't think that means anything? I doubt most of us would ever do that with our own guns.

 

[hso]

Bubbles is on target. I've met several individuals and "partners" that do just that. Money, like rank, hath it's privelidges.

At least in this case the thing is in the SWAT armory instead at his home in the closet.

What should annoy us is the departmental funds used to build the thing.

 

[HorseSoldier]

There shouldn't be a 'priviledged' class that can enjoy perks forbidden to the citizenry.

There's not under the law, but, having worked in law enforcement, I'd be happy to vote in favor of it if someone wanted to make improved access to class III stuff a perk of being an LEO. Would be nice to have some perk to compensate for all the absolute BS, headaches, and occasional life/death sort of peril the citizenry inflicts on LEOs on a daily basis.

 

[Dimis]

if you watch that episode again he stated multiple times that he wanted it converted for his SWAT dept. to use
now how legit that is falls beyond what was shown on television but he did claim it was for department use

most of the episodes i have seen where someone was buying something for personal use like an SBS SBR or Suppressor they do mention that they will have to file with the ATF and wait for approval before ownership of the item

My biggest fear for the show is that its going to become OCC for the gun community with more focus on the owner yelling and screaming than acctualy building guns

 

[bruzer]

Here is my take on the reality shows. They are all FAKE. They do things for ratings and if enough people watch then it is called entertainment. Yes we see things unfold right in front of our eyes but it is all scripted just like BIG TIME WRESTLING. I know Grandma swears up and down it is FOR REAL but sorry folks it is just entertainment. At least for some people.
Mike

 

[41magsnub]

Horse Soldier:

There's not under the law, but, having worked in law enforcement, I'd be happy to vote in favor of it if someone wanted to make improved access to class III stuff a perk of being an LEO. Would be nice to have some perk to compensate for all the absolute BS, headaches, and occasional life/death sort of peril the citizenry inflicts on LEOs on a daily basis.

Not just no.. but hell no. Cops are not (supposed to be) above the law.

 

[skidooman603]

The best thing about these "semi" reality shows is they do portray firearms in a positive light..We need all pos press we can get..

 

[kingpin008]

Would be nice to have some perk to compensate for all the absolute BS, headaches, and occasional life/death sort of peril the citizenry inflicts on LEOs on a daily basis.

Not to be rude, but nobody is forced to be a cop. I'm thankful for the good they do, but if you want to stop having BS, headaches, and peril "inflicted" upon you find another line of work.

Moreover, police work is probably one of the few careers where an applicant has the advantage of knowing full well what awaits them once they're hired. To complain about it later and demand special treatment because of it, IMHO, is laughable.

 

[o Unforgiven o]

Not to be rude, but nobody is forced to be a cop. I'm thankful for the good they do, but if you want to stop having BS, headaches, and peril "inflicted" upon you find another line of work.

Moreover, police work is probably one of the few careers where an applicant has the advantage of knowing full well what awaits them once they're hired. To complain about it later and demand special treatment because of it, IMHO, is laughable.

Very well said. +1

 

[LemmyCaution]

Would be nice to have some perk to compensate for all the absolute BS, headaches, and occasional life/death sort of peril the citizenry inflicts on LEOs on a daily basis.

Yeah, what a colossal headache it must be having these uppity plebes imagine themselves fit to differ with a public servant.

You not only need another line of work, you need a refresher in civics. This isn't Sparta (thankfully).

 

[yeti]

compensate for all the absolute BS, headaches, and occasional life/death sort of peril the citizenry inflicts on LEOs on a daily basis.

A street with traffic that runs in both directions, that most people don't choose to travel on, and receive no monetary compensation for traveling down. One should not be more equal than the other.

 

[ScottieG59]

Maybe the officer did have the intention of having a selective fire or fully automatic weapon. Personally, I do not want to see the prosecution expanded and if prosecution is avoidable, it should be. I spent years in the Army with various weapons and except for the full machine guns, I found the selective fire weapons less attractive.

Today, the idea of a $10 6-round burst is not what I seek.

Anyway, rather than being jealous of those who have easier access and ways of avoiding prosecution, lets work within the system and address the laws that may need to be changed or reviewed.

 

[cougfan]

This cop was obviously a gun fan and he probably came up with a crazy idea for a tactical full auto Thompson. It had rails on it to attach optics and flashlights, it can be high capacity, it is about as maneuverable as an M4 (except for insane weight) with 16" barrel and if your next door neighbor was some crack dealer getting busted I bet you would prefer the cops use .45 acp instead of .223, it arguably stops the BG quicker and is exponentially less likely to kill the neighbors. Maybe he wasted a couple of grand, sadly I'm a bit desensitized to government waste having seen some of the costs of the Airborn Laser project. And yes normal citizens should have the same access to firearms as our government does.

 

[Davek1977]

We do NOT need to elevate the status of police officers above that of the common man!!! yes, they have a difficult job that is oftentimes dangerous. They also CHOSE that job. My father has worked the family ranch his entire life. He's been gored by cows, bucked off horses, and generally beat around for the bulk of his 65 years. And guess what? he wouldn't have it any other way, doesn't complain, and would never expect to be treated as special because of it. Having a dangerous job...of your choosing, no less...doesn't mean you should be entitled to things other law-abiding citizens are not. Danger and hard work are part of MANY people's job descriptions, from coal miners to loggers to the clerk at the AM/PM. Guess what? Any of them can get a full-auto.....they just have to jump through the same hoops as the rest of us....and I darn sure don't think it should be any other way. When we start handing out rights and privileges that only extend to a certain class of people, while denying those same rights and privileges to the masses, is a dangerous proposition and one I am firmly against. Wearing a badge is a choice, and simply making that choice shouldn't give you any more rights or freedoms than your neighbor who does taxes for a living. most jobs have a perk....its called a paycheck, and thats what a cop deserves for doing his job, too....not a special set of laws and privileges that only apply to those behind the badge. Cops already complain they are resented by much of the public. That may be so, but by giving them special privileges, that resentment can only grow deeper.

if your next door neighbor was some crack dealer getting busted I bet you would prefer the cops use .45 acp instead of .223, it arguably stops the BG quicker and is exponentially less likely to kill the neighbors.

i'd rethink that line of thinking if I were you. Several studies have shown that even FMJ 5.56/.223 rounds penetrate LESS drywall than the .45 or even 9mm, due usually to bullet fragmentation. With that in mind, I'm not so sure a .45 full-auto would make a very good SWAT weapon

 

[FBNTH]

My biggest fear for the show is that its going to become OCC for the gun community with more focus on the owner yelling and screaming than acctualy building guns

I have started noticing a pattern to the show.
1) Customer comes in with some "crazy" idea while they are "over booked"
2) During the build something goes wrong which the owner fixes
3) They do the final demo with the Customer and something goes wrong
4) Quick fix done and everything is perfect

I enjoy the show but it isn't reality. They are scripting it all the way.

Rick

 

[Remo223]

regarding the raised blood pressures here about hypothetical gun privileges to cops:

I'm not a cop. I don't think a cop should have special privileges. But if I was a cop and those special gun privileges were offered to me I wouldn't turn them down. I'd take them greedily and proclaim to all that my belief is that everyone should have the same guns as me...and I'd be telling the truth.

 

[KodiakBeer]

Ann Coulter has an interesting column this week that has a similar topic: http://www.anncoulter.com/

Fine, we like teachers, firemen and police officers. We appreciate them. (And for the record, it is statistically more dangerous to be a farmer, fisherman, steelworker or pilot than a cop or fireman. Soldiers also have pretty dangerous jobs, and they don't get to strike.)

I like cops (not that you don't run across a jerk now and again), but their job really isn't that dangerous, and they do get a lot of perks and pay that people with far more dangerous and difficult jobs don't get.

It does get tiresome to hear about how splendid cops, teachers, fireman, etc, are and how they deserve more and more and more from the taxpayers. And the example above is just more of the same. I think the cop said he was given the gun ( a perk), then he uses public money to have it converted to full auto "for the SWAT team". Come on, the SWAT team doesn't really need a 26 pound .45.

 

[essayons21]

I have started noticing a pattern to the show.
1) Customer comes in with some "crazy" idea while they are "over booked"
2) During the build something goes wrong which the owner fixes
3) They do the final demo with the Customer and something goes wrong
4) Quick fix done and everything is perfect

I enjoy the show but it isn't reality. They are scripting it all the way.

Rick

Don't forget the commercial breaks added conveniently between 1,2,3, and 4 for added suspense.

My favorite example of "reality TV" which used to run on TruTV, was the show Repo Men, which is an entirely scripted show with actors playing both the repo agents and the targets of repossession, yet marketed as reality tv.

Regarding the NFA laws, they do run a disclaimer at the beginning and usually once during the show that if you attempt anything seen on the show, you will go to jail for a long time. I too am hoping that they use the popularity of the show to educate the public a bit more on NFA laws, and how silly some of them are. Showing them cutting off 5/8" from a 18.5" shotgun and remarking how now its illegal without a tax stamp would be nice.

 

[Smoovbiscuit]

At least the repo men show had better acting.

I think he actually wanted the gun for his department, not personal use. But there would be much more effective .45 SMGs to use than a thompson with rails on it.

This show is a disgrace to the gun community. I really wish they took the drama and "suspense" out and focused more on the guns.

They always act like they have one week to finish a project but there is really no rush from the customer.

Probably the biggest pet peeve of mine about the show is the corny, scripted father-daughter bickering. And the kid with the mohawk is incredibly annoying.