SOOO many new cartridges

[another pake]

To each his own Justin.

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. You seem pleased with your choices and that's as it should be. As for the cost of 6.8 components, especially brass, I started with S&B FMJ 110s @ .60 each. Shoot the rounds, reclaim the brass and reload. No, my brass cost is not as low as that of .223, but it is no where near .40 either. But even if I do value it at .40 and reload a conservative five times, that's a brass cost of .08 in my book. Add powder, primer and bullet and my loads are .40-.45. I can live with that.

But... since you say once fired brass fetch .40 on the market, maybe I should just buy the 110 FMJ S&B rounds, sell the brass at .40 and call my cost .20. That's an acceptable plinking price, no?

 

[justin22885]

$0.40/case for brass is what i found on diamondkbrass, $0.42/case for large primer but they seem to be out of stock of it anyway

 

[Dr T]

This thread sort of reminds me of a column I read about a .300 Whelen...

I will grant that want trumps need every time. For what other reason would someone have 3 .223's, 2 or 3 22-250's, 2 .243's and a perfectly good 6 mm Rem, 3 .308's, 2 30-06 single shots, and almost too many 22 lr's and 22 WRM's to keep track of?

If I had to pare it down to a need list (which is a daunting task) of 5 rifles given what and how I hunt and shoot, I am afraid it would have to be:

22 LR
22 WRM
.243
6.5 CM
.308 Win

It is a hard thing to do.

I have the two rimfires because each fulfills a specific niche in what I do on the ranch. Anything that I would need to do with a 22 centerfire, I can do with one of the 22 WRM or .243. Also, my observation that the 22 mag is a very nice handgun cartridge is a factor.

It was especially difficult for me to leave off the 6 mm Rem and 270 Win. from the list.

I took the .243 Win because of ammo availability over the 6 mm, and the factory .243 ammo today is nearly as good as my best handloads from 30 years ago. The 6.5 CM was taken over the .270 and the .308 over the '06 because as I age, I find that recoil has started becoming more of an issue.

That said, I really need to get my .375 H&H out on the range soon...

 

[justin22885]

if you really want to consolidate calibers its really not that hard to do if you know how to go about it.. people get consumed in looking at a variety of overlapping calibers as being useful because they do one thing particularly well but when consolidating, perhaps for the purpose of stockpiling lots of ammo for you have to look at everything a potential caliber can actually do, not which one does what best... what .243, 6.5 creedmor and .308 offer is generally so overlapped that you could pick pretty much any of them and make use of it for any role you may need it for

22WMR is a nice handgun caliber for small game hunting but if you already have a .22lr rifle for that purpose you dont need both, 22wmr for the same reasons as 5.7x28 (generally very poor penetration) make it a poor choice for self defense

you could probably narrow it down for two, one rifle, one pistol even though they may not be ideal for EVERY task, but those two will be able to handle every task

ive eliminated 8mm mauser, 7.62x54R, .308, 7.62x39, 45acp, and 44 special from my list, now im down to 5.56 and 9mm (which may get replaced)

 

[another pake]

Every time I start to reduce and consolidate, I end up buying something new.
My hobby gives me pleasure. I try to share that with others.
The collection must still be growing.
I bought another safe last year.

 

[HoosierQ]

I think there are some old cartridges that should be brought back.

• 44-40
• 38-40
• 32-20
• 25-20
• The Savages: 250 and 300.
• .30 Remington.

The 25-20 and 32-20 fit niches that nothing else quite does. They'd be great in lever actions that today we fill with .357.

Won't ever happen but it's fun to talk about.

 

[OilyPablo]

I think there are some old cartridges that should be brought back.

• 44-40
• 38-40
• 32-20
• 25-20
• The Savages: 250 and 300.
• .30 Remington.

The 25-20 and 32-20 fit niches that nothing else quite does. They'd be great in lever actions that today we fill with .357.

Won't ever happen but it's fun to talk about.

I very much agree with this. If the market can even marginally support any cartridge, the more the merrier.

 

[murf]

the 5.75mm velo dog

murf

 

[Mosbyranger]

Yeah, another spurt of "latest greatest" rounds. I seem to remember about, oh, a decade or so ago that the industry started pushing the short fat ultra super duper game mashing long range flesh seeking magnums of the month. All the magazine writers were falling all over themselves to explain how these modern marvels were sooooo much more efficient at burning powder and were just extra lethal at ranges a howitzer would have trouble reaching. A couple of them did manage to catch on, but how many rifles do you see now chambered for the .243 WSSM? Or others of that ilk? IMHO it's better to sit back and let the market decide winners and losers. Much better than to be stuck with a 5 year old rifle in an already obsolete chambering, no matter how great is was ballistically.

 

[Dr T]

I agree with Oily that it would be nice if the Savages were still around.

However, the .308 Win is essentially a 300 Savage with a longer neck that is loaded to higher pressures. And the 6.5 CM is very similar to a 250 Savage Improved with a slightly larger bore diameter loaded to higher pressure.

I got the 6.5 CM because I couldn't find a 250 Savage I liked (and then learned it could be a reasonable 270 Win substitute for my purposes). The low recoil is nice.

 

[d2wing]

Rounds come and go, one man's great idea is another man's answer to a question never asked. Many of these rounds are attempts to fit a more potent cartridge in the AR action.
The results are interesting and some have a good following. My own hopes were for a 6mm cartridge or slightly larger using .223 cases. No luck. In the end you are limited by case size so gains will be marginal over the .223 in my opinion. Worth it to some, I am not convinced yet.

 

[mshootnit]

Some of those are over ten years old. When I read the OP I had to check the date of the thread to make sure it wasnt 2006. Really I think the new cartridges have slowed down since the early 2000's.

The 270 WSM and 300 WSM were the first beltless short action magnums from a large manufacturer, and are outstanding. Glad they came out with them.

 

[Traffer]

It is called marketing folks. People who have the money to "invest" in a little fantasy "newer is better" will always drool over something different and just maybe a tiny bit better. Personally like many have stated, A 22 an ought 6 and a 12 gauge will pretty much suffice for about 99.9% of shooters of long guns. Pistols depends on if you want a revolver or a semi auto. But a few there will equally fit the bill. Like they say though, variety is the spice of life.

 

[theleo]

I think there are some old cartridges that should be brought back.

• 44-40
• 38-40
• 32-20
• 25-20
• The Savages: 250 and 300.
• .30 Remington.

The 25-20 and 32-20 fit niches that nothing else quite does. They'd be great in lever actions that today we fill with .357.

Won't ever happen but it's fun to talk about.

The 38-40 is still around, it's called 40 S&w. The 32-20 also got reinvented not long ago, we call it the 327 federal.

 

[justin22885]

i dont know why someone would want to bring back the 44-40 it wasnt the easiest to reload, brass dimensions arent all that common, thickness around the case wall was so thin it was born to cracking or crushing, bullets are now of an uncommon diameter.. the 44 special matches its ballistics perfectly, is straight walled, thicker, easier to reload, get a lot more reloads off it, common bullet dimensions and .44 mag/44 special lever actions and single action revolvers are widely available

there are two cartridges im considering bringing back from the brink of extinction, .30 luger and 9x18 ultra/police.. 30 luger can be built upon ANY 9mm pistol with just a barrel change.. buy a 9mm pistol, bore out and re-line the barrel with a 30 caliber insert from track of the wolf and rechamber.. its made on cheap, common 9mm brass and if pushed to 9mm +P pressures it will match 7.62x25 ballistics, who wouldnt want a hi power, CZ-75, or even a glock with 17+1 capacity of 7.62x25 equivalent?

my interest in bringing back 9x18 police/ultra is because it represents the maximum possible performance you can get in a blowback pistol, loaded to chamber pressures higher than 380, a tad higher than 9x18 makarov its able to reach the bottom end of standard pressure 9mm with more than enough energy for both expansion and adequate penetration but can be chambered in basically any straight blowback makarov chambered pistol, one other advantage over the makarov round is that it uses .355" bullets and of course it also uses common 9x19mm brass

 

[FL-NC]

Watching from the sidelines, it seems to me that MOST of the new calibers that have come out on the last 20-25 years never went far, and they are all expensive as hell still, for the most part- rifle OR handgun. The only exception is the 40 S&W which I don't like, but its doing well. I won't own a gun that I can't get some kind of ammo for at Wal Mart.

 

[Nanook]

I agree about there being lots of new cartridge solutions to nonexistent problems. One could also surmise that this thread is a lot of old guys bitching about changes that seem silly to them.

"Get off my lawn..."

LOL, with that said, I just built an AR in 6.5 Grendel. So I'm an old guy with a new cartridge.

 

[TruthTellers]

The 38-40 is still around, it's called 40 S&w. The 32-20 also got reinvented not long ago, we call it the 327 federal.

All those xx-20 or xx-40's are nigh obsolete today. .45 Colt/.44 Special replace the .44-40. The only reason I see people embracing .44-40 is because it's used in reproductions of 19th Century rifles that were originally chambered for .44 Rimfire.

.38-40 has .40 S&W and 10mm Auto now, .32-20 has .327 Federal, and .25-20 is no better than .22 Mag or .22 Hornet. All the modern ammo I just listed is easier to reload and dies/components for them are easier to find.

Outside of .44-40, the pistol calibers you mentioned are going to stay in the dustbin.

 

[justin22885]

All those xx-20 or xx-40's are nigh obsolete today. .45 Colt/.44 Special replace the .44-40. The only reason I see people embracing .44-40 is because it's used in reproductions of 19th Century rifles that were originally chambered for .44 Rimfire.

.38-40 has .40 S&W and 10mm Auto now, .32-20 has .327 Federal, and .25-20 is no better than .22 Mag or .22 Hornet. All the modern ammo I just listed is easier to reload and dies/components for them are easier to find.

Outside of .44-40, the pistol calibers you mentioned are going to stay in the dustbin.

yeah.. that doesnt make much sense, those rifles originally chambered for .44 rimfire being reproduced in .44-40... 44-40 is no more accurate a cartridge for such a clone than 44 special and 44 special is superior in every way, ESPECIALLY for those who will be reloading their ammo as for reasons previously stated the 44-40 sucks for reloading.. of course, all those same lever guns are also chambered in 45 colt which was originally never chambered in a lever action

 

[justin22885]

ive been considering having an 1860 army cylinder bored straight through for a .44 colt conversion, ammo hasnt been made in over 100 years but just take some .44 special brass, cut it down to 26mm, take some of the rim off and load it with a heeled bullet and you have 44 colt

 

[meanmrmustard]

What is.223 good for? Really?

Varmints
Deer
Home defense
Facilitates recoil sensitive shooters
Introductory cartridge for new shooters
Plinking
Appleseed
3 gun

Really?

 

[justin22885]

What is.223 good for? Really?

Varmints
Deer
Home defense
Facilitates recoil sensitive shooters
Introductory cartridge for new shooters
Plinking
Appleseed
3 gun

Really?

ive used 308 and 7.62x39 for a very long time, x39 for the low costs and 308 for the range.. however after some ballistics tests i found the 7.62x39 internal ballistics to not be all that great at all, and the only affordable .308 ammo was basically military style FMJ that seems to over-peentrate before yawing and creating poor wound channels

5.56 on the other hand and especially in larger weights such as 75, 77 grain not only had a trajectory that would easily allow me to reach out to the distances i previously used .308 for with still enough power to get the job done, but with the 75 grain hornady HPBT bullets i could get a better wound channel than x39 and .308 ball, better accuracy, and with handloads costs that hover around 30 cents a round

so replacing the needs fulfilled by both .308 and 7.62x39 simply by going to a heavier bullet.. thats what .223 is good for

 

[surveyor]

I'm not ready to give up 6 mm rem, but I don't have a lot of brass for it either. yes I can find some, or form some if I have to.
I also have a 243. While it may seem overlap, I like both rifles and plan to keep them.
So since I'm already setup in projectiles, and load 223 as well, I'm going to get a 6 mm mongoose barrel for my ar.
(Think 6x45, but 40degree shoulder)

Easy case forming, readily availible components I already have, only a barrel and dies to get into.
I don't do anything with the 300 blackout, so I'll get rid of that setup.

 

[OilyPablo]

9x25 isn't dead yet! At least two commercial ammo manufacturers support it. New dies are sold. 10mm brass is relatively easy to reform. But it's not that new. I have a 6" LW barrel, and will be getting an AR barrel.

 

[meanmrmustard]

ive used 308 and 7.62x39 for a very long time, x39 for the low costs and 308 for the range.. however after some ballistics tests i found the 7.62x39 internal ballistics to not be all that great at all, and the only affordable .308 ammo was basically military style FMJ that seems to over-peentrate before yawing and creating poor wound channels

5.56 on the other hand and especially in larger weights such as 75, 77 grain not only had a trajectory that would easily allow me to reach out to the distances i previously used .308 for with still enough power to get the job done, but with the 75 grain hornady HPBT bullets i could get a better wound channel than x39 and .308 ball, better accuracy, and with handloads costs that hover around 30 cents a round

so replacing the needs fulfilled by both .308 and 7.62x39 simply by going to a heavier bullet.. thats what .223 is good for

That's impressive.