Why the need for some new cartridges? Examples provided.

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peacebutready

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It seems there's a lot of new rifle cartridges in recent times. I don't understand why many of them came to be. I know the 450 Bushmaster and 350 Legend are because cartridges need to be straight walled for hunting in some areas. Some examples are below:

450 Marlin: There's already the .444 Marlin and the .45-70.
375 Ruger: There's the 375 H&H
300 Remington Ultra Magnum, 300 WSM, and the 300 Ruger Compact Magnum: We already have the 300 Winchester and 300 Weatherby Mag.
416 Ruger: There are already similiar cartridges
 
New calibers creates new gun sales.
truth of it right there

.450 Marlin, cludge to keep folks from blowing up older weaker designed .45-70s with the new hot factory ammo.

.375 Ruger, fits in a cheap 30-06 action, and can out run the .375 H&H.

300s.....Ultra, significantly faster. WSM/Rsaum/RCM Significantly shorter

.416Ruger, same as the .375 Ruger

IMO theres actually little real advantage except at the extremes.
Consider the 30 mags. The Ultra, PRC, 30-378 etc, are capable of delivering very heavy bullets very fast. This gives them a true ballistic advantage, but only matter when the guns built specifically to take advantage of that. At "normal" ranges they dont do much extra.
On the short side, an ultra light rifle in .300wm or .300wby is brutal. The Shorter more efficient .300wsm tho is much more pleasant and easier to shoot, and can be built marginaly shorter and lighter.
 
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The trend seems to be shorter fatter cartridges that fit in shorter stiffer actions, the WSM’s, SAUM’s, and PRC cartridges. Or improvements to geometry of existing cases to increase efficiency, for example to 6mm and 6.5mm Creedmoor. Advantage lower cost to the consumer, lighter weight, and a more rigid action with better precision potential. Plus the shorter fatter cartridges seem to enjoy an advantage in efficiency of powder burned vs achieved velocities. There is also an argument put forth by John Krieger that many of the new short fat cartridges also have long necks, and long necks help barrels live longer lives by taking some of the heat and abrasion and keeping it in the case/directing it down the barrel. Plus you get more uniform neck tension. A lot of wins to be had with these new short fat cartridges that fill the same ballistic envelope as older cartridges that are just not as effectively packaged.

The other trend is big high performance cartridges like the new Nosler and Norma offerings. Sling bullets with high BC’s at high speeds. Maximum effective point blank ranges, but refined cases with long necks and dimensions that lend themselves to existing actions and versatile projectile selection.

That doesn’t mean you should get rid of your older rifles in older calibers, but if you’re buying a new rifle and you are not invested in a certain legacy caliber already then buy a never more efficient offering.

Couple this with a trend in rifle actions that are becoming more friendly to end user caliber change, and you have a heck of an advantage. A few barrels, and a couple of bolt heads of various bolt face sizes gives a guy several different classes of cartridges on one action and one optic. Higher initial cost for the first setup, but lower overall cost for subsequent expansion of the system. Not to say legacy calibers couldn’t be had in these fancy new actions, but for the most part these are short actions, and that means it’s mostly .223/.308/WSM/SAUM/PRC etc variant cartridges you have to choose from. Not a bad thing really.
 
Have Seven(7) different (non-C&R) chamberings: (Aperture or Scoped/ Bolt a/o Semi-Auto/ Rifle or Carbine)

1. .22 LR (Aperture/ (Both)/ Carbine)
2. .357 Mag (Aperture/ Bolt/ Carbine)
3. 5.56mm NATO (Aperture/ Semi-Auto/ Carbine(Mini-14))
4. 6.5x55mm (Aperture/ Bolt/ Rifle)
5. .270 WCF (Scoped/ Bolt/ Rifle)
6. .30-06 SPG (Aperture/ Semi-Auto/ Rifle(M1))
7. 9.3x62mm (Scoped/ Bolt/ Rifle)

Near as I can figure:
6/7 are 85 years old or more.
The youngster .223 - only 55 years.




GR
 
A plethora of cartridges to choose from is nothing new. I have a reprint of a Sears Roebuck catalog from 1900 that has pages and pages of different cartridges that they sold at the time.

Of course most of the ones the catalog showed faded away, to be replaced by other ones better suited to smokeless powder. Some are still around, the .45/70, the .30 USA (.30-40), the various WCF cartridges, etc.

There are some who say that there hasn’t been anything “new and improved” since the .270 brought high speed for longer range shots and .357 Mag and .44 mag (in handguns) brought serious power to handgunners... but I don’t. I like to read and learn about the different caliber options that come out every year and the ideas and engineering behind them.

Stay safe.
 
When 450 Marlin was introduced 45-70 factory loads were all black powder level loads. In other words very weak. The only way to get modern more powerful loads was to handload. At the time most factories were afraid to load modern loads out of fear they would get into an old 1800's rifle and blow it up. The 450 Marlin gives modern 45-70 loads, but in a case that can't be chambered in older rifles. Today there isn't much need for 450 Marlin since we can now buy hotter 45-70 factory loads.

The 444 was introduced in the 1960's and was basically a flop because all of the bullets fired out of it were designed to work at handgun velocities. Marlin revived the 45-70 from the dead with the plan to discontinue 444. But better bullets designed for it finally were introduced and it has caught a 2nd chance.

The 300 WSM is really misunderstood and one of the better new options in my lifetime. Compared to 300 WM it uses a more efficient case to come within 50 fps of 300 WM speeds, but it burns 10-15 gr less powder resulting in significantly less recoil. And much better accuracy. Due to the reduced recoil, and short action cartridges,it can be built in a smaller, lighter, more compact rifle. Which is exactly what the inventor was trying to do. Unfortunately most manufacturers don't seem to understand this concept. In the right rifle the 300 WSM is a great cartridge and I'd take it over any other 300 magnum 10 to 1.

The man, Rick Jamison, who invented the 300 Jamisontried to sell his idea to Winchester, who declined to buy. But shortly after introduced the identical 300 WSM. Jamison sued and won. Jamison now gets a royalty for every 300 WSM sold. Ruger didn't want to pay the royalty and introduced the similar 300 RCM, Remington did the same thing with the 300 SAUM.

The 375 and 300 H&H cartridges are extremely long and either require a magnum length action (which almost no one makes anymore), or you have to take a long action and modify it which is less than ideal. Either way results in an extremely expensive rifle. 375 Ruger easily fits in a standard long action and can be sold much cheaper. And it gives a bit more power.

6.5 Creedmore...... Already got the 260 Rem...... And the 6.5 Swede

The 6.5X55 was designed to shoot 160 RN military bullets. The 6.5X55 has been around since the 1890's and factory loads are kept anemic. Plus rifle specs are all over the place. The only way to get a 6.5X55 to shoot is to go with a custom build and handload cartridges to modern specs.

The 260 was designed around 120 gr deer hunting bullets. Long range target shooters discovered that by loading cartridges with 140-150 gr hi BC bullets they could go great things at long range. The problem is that these loads wouldn't function in factory 260 rifles. The 6.5 CM was designed to offer out of the box rifles and ammo that would duplicate what they were doing with custom rigs and out of spec hand loads.

Y'all ever notice, while new cartridges generate sales, any time they introduce a new model rifle, their first chambering is usually .30-06?

Not anymore. Several new rifles have been introduced in recent years that aren't even offered in 30-06. I saw some numbers for new rifles produced in 2018. The 6.5 CM accounted for almost 1/2. The 308 was at 5%. The 30-06 was lumped together in the "other" category.
 
...Not anymore. Several new rifles have been introduced in recent years that aren't even offered in 30-06. I saw some numbers for new rifles produced in 2018. The 6.5 CM accounted for almost 1/2. The 308 was at 5%. The 30-06 was lumped together in the "other" category.

The only caveat I'd add to this is: that new rifle sales are generally from the same group of people that also believe in Global Warming, that they don't need a wristwatch, map, or compass, and that Socialism will work... this time.

They believe what their phones, celebrities, and internet connections tell them to believe.


For what it's worth.




GR
 
Variety is the spice of life and shooters are willing to try anything new. Me I,m boring. There,s probably 10 rounds that will handle everything in the world. But even I own about 25 different ones. Its all about something new.
Amen! I’ll go so far to say there are four, .22 LR, .223, .30-06 and .375 H&H...but I, too prefer to have a wide variety of different cartridges to choose from... even if most of the ones I have in the safe overlap a lot. :)

Stay safe.
 
Additional to the general truth that its all about sales, its also about targeting a new breed of consumer, generally Millennials. The generations that grew up with Internet and Cell Phones constantly upgrading and changing, always a new gimmick coming down the line that will somehow make them superior to all who came before them and give them their own identity as modern progressive humans.

Now, I outright apologize to anyone here who may be of that age group who does not subscribe to that thinking...I know such guys are out there....but it is a very strong generality that proves right quite often.

The modern corporate business algorithm is the art of cultivating a herd of consumer cattle. It became kind of a singularity with that generation. They are on the event horizon teetering in the edge of Orwellian Plutocracy, either as the ultimate proponents or ultimate victims...or both.

Ray Kurzweil of Google predicted that we would eventually be in just such a singularity where society, technology and culture all become perpetually interdependent. One of the ways this is maintained is to keep reinventing the wheel and fix what is not broke. Only a crisis will break this cycle.

One of my favorite expressions (that I coined myelf) is: "Most of the best things have already been done."
 
...The 444 was introduced in the 1960's and was basically a flop because all of the bullets fired out of it were designed to work at handgun velocities. Marlin revived the 45-70 from the dead with the plan to discontinue 444. But better bullets designed for it finally were introduced and it has caught a 2nd chance.

I vaguely remember the 444 Marlin enjoying popularity or some popularity in the 1980s. Am I correct?


The 300 WSM is really misunderstood and one of the better new options in my lifetime. Compared to 300 WM it uses a more efficient case to come within 50 fps of 300 WM speeds, but it burns 10-15 gr less powder resulting in significantly less recoil. And much better accuracy. Due to the reduced recoil, and short action cartridges,it can be built in a smaller, lighter, more compact rifle. Which is exactly what the inventor was trying to do. Unfortunately most manufacturers don't seem to understand this concept. In the right rifle the 300 WSM is a great cartridge and I'd take it over any other 300 magnum 10 to 1.

Much better accuracy than the 300 WM? Is that inherent accuracy or practical accuracy due to less recoil?


The 375 and 300 H&H cartridges are extremely long and either require a magnum length action (which almost no one makes anymore), or you have to take a long action and modify it which is less than ideal. Either way results in an extremely expensive rifle. 375 Ruger easily fits in a standard long action and can be sold much cheaper. And it gives a bit more power.

Good to learn that about the H&H, although I thought there were more rifles available for it in Europe. Maybe I'm thinkking of past times. Also good to learn about how the 375 Ruger fits in a standard long action.


The 6.5X55 was designed to shoot 160 RN military bullets. The 6.5X55 has been around since the 1890's and factory loads are kept anemic. Plus rifle specs are all over the place. The only way to get a 6.5X55 to shoot is to go with a custom build and handload cartridges to modern specs.

Custom build for 6.5X55? I thought CZ makes some good rifles chambered in it. Also, isn't there good hunting ammo for it? If not much here, in Europe?
 
I haven’t done any research to back it up but it seems to me a lot of new cartridges don’t feed as well as older ones.

I think theres something to that...especially when we look at the OLD rounds like the Mauser rounds. The mag boxes for those were specific to their cartridges, and there werent nearly as many variants to get to feed properly.
When trying to cram larger, straighter, longer...even shorter cartridges into magazine systems not designed for them theres likely to be issues. To simplify production most designs stay as close to the same as possible so theres little adjustments made, but rarely if ever is a new magazine system designed from the ground up for each cartridge family.
The WSMs were a good example, the early ones had all kindsa problems with feeding. Trying to cram stuff like the .284 into 308 actions is another one that can be of issue, and there isnt THAT much difference between them.

Ive actually only ever had feeding issues with two rifles, and both were remediable. Still deviate far enough from the "norm" and your likely to find issues.
 
Its a complicated discussion. It seems to me, that very few new cartridges that have come out in recent years have established firm "staying power". Two that come to mind are 6.5 CM and 300 BLK. Of course, the CM is an updated Swede round, that is doing wonderful things in the competition, hunting, and tactical worlds in modern current-production rifles, and the BLK is a version of the 300 whisper that has been more successfully marketed for the AR crowd, and is very viable for suppressor use. The 17 HMR caught on fast and has kept a loyal fan base too. 40 S&W is losing popularity, but is far from dead- based on the enormous numbers of the guns that are in circulation. The newer straight wall rounds are finding their place, especially in states that restrict rifle hunting to this family of cartridges. Now, think about all of the other rounds in the last 20-30 years (handgun and rifle) that were destined to be "game-changers", if you believed what all of the gun magazines reported, but ended up as duds: 41 AE (anyone remember that)? 357 SIG. 45 GAP. 400 cor-bon. 10mm (revived as a "niche caliber"). 327 mag. 6.8 SPC. All of the various short mags. That weird rifle that Remington came out with that used electronically fired rounds. The list goes on, but I think you see the point. And I apologize to anyone who has a 45 GAP, short mag, or whatever, that is the "best gun you have ever owned". I think that's great that you have it and shoot it well, whatever it is. I'm just bringing up my observations in world of new calibers as it applies to development, marketing, popularity, availability, and price.
 
As far as new cartridges we can get by very well (and do) with cartridges developed over one hundred years ago!

The consumer is why we have all of them.

Wildcats and the big rifle companies trying to make a good cartridge better or something new to entice the shooter/hunter.

I'm glad they keep raising the bar as it also gives us more options for bullets and powders to make the 100 year old rounds better.

Love the 30-30, 30-06, 308, 300 wsm, & 300 wm. Have taken whitetails with them all.
I still see different advantages with all them, even though there is a ton of crossover between them!!
 
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Vah-rye-eh-tay is the spice of life.

Otherwise we'd all be shooting a 30-30 for hunting game, 22lr for plinking and small critters, a 223 fer varmints, a couple of 7mm magnums out west for speed goats and sheep and a dozen 458 win mags being passed around.
 
90% of new cartridges die on the vine, but you’ll never find something good unless you experiment. The modern rifle and cartridges we have today were made in very small incremental improvements.

The 6.5 creedmoor is a perfect example of a cartridge that on the face of it looks entirely unnecessary, but does offer significant fitment advantages over the 2 cartridges it is basically replacing.
 
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