Sportsman's Guide Ban

[Bane]

I just tried to make a mag order from Sportsman's Guide and I was told that the sale of mags holding more than 15rds was banned to the State of Indiana (Indiana has no bans on magazines). I got transfered to SG's head quarters where someone in the legal department told me that they new it was legal for citizens of Indiana to purchase any mags they wanted. He also stated that SG had decided that THEY would impose there own ban on the state of Indiana and that 15rds would be the max. To put it nicely I am very upset! Why would the do something like this? SG will never again get any of my buisness!
Please feel free to contact SG's and let them know what a terrible idea this is.

Head Quarters: (651)451-3030
Email: [email protected]

If enough people say something things might change

 

[Lupinus]

take your buisness elsewhere and inform them you are doinging this and why and how many customers this will loose them

 

[Bane]

I already told them they lost me as a customer. I also told them I would be telling everyone I knew. That's why I posted this on ever forum I visit.

 

[El Tejon]

Called "Bob" at customer service.

They are using an old pre-empted South Bend ordinance as justification to cut off the entire state of Indiana.

No mags for you.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

They make their own rules, for their own arbitrary reasons.

As I've posted before, when their catalog had the 1893 Turkish Mausers I wanted to buy just the bayonet. They wouldn't sell it to me because of my zip code. (Bayonets are not banned in my state.) Not only that, although PA is not prohibited, they wouldn't allow me to order one for delivery to a friend in PA.

However, they will sell me a black powder percussion pistol. And ... although they won't sell me an 1893 Turkish Mauser bayonet, they WILL sell me an 1893 Turkish battle rifle, ready to rock and roll.

They also will not sell me one of their 8mm blank-firing 1911 stage pistols ... even though they will sell me the aforementioned percussion revolver and the aforementioned 1893 Mauser battle rifle. Oh ... but they did send me a box of the 8mm blank ammo, even after they cancelled my order for the pistol that uses it.

As the young lady in Customer (dis)Service said, "I guess it doesn't make a lot of sense, does it?"

 

[thatguy]

These mail order places have to deal with federal laws, 50 sets of state laws, and the laws in thousands of cities and counties. I assume they actually WANT to sell as much merchandise as possible, so I also assume they make an effort to fulfill all legal orders. If they are refusing to ship to you I figure they must have a reason. I would try to find out exactly what the prohibition is they are observing and deal with it from that end. If they are in error then I would make them aware.

You have to understand if they prefer to err on the side of safety since one criminal complaint could ruin their whole day.

 

[Matthew748]

Bane's original post states that SG knew it was OK to sell the magazines to Indiana residents but decided not to per company policy. I expect who ever told him that is going to get a stern talking to from a sales VP.

Hey El Tejon, I consider you to be the prime source for info on Indiana, so can you please tell me what the "old pre-empted South Bend ordinance" refers to?

 

[Pilgrim]

I already told them they lost me as a customer. I also told them I would be telling everyone I knew. That's why I posted this on ever forum I visit.

Another option is find a mail order house that will ship to your home, then send a copy of the invoice to Sportsmans Gude and tell them they lost another sale to
Brand 'X' store.

Pilgrim

 

[hillbilly]

Thatguy wrote:

"You have to understand if they prefer to err on the side of safety since one criminal complaint could ruin their whole day."


Well, thatguy, Sportsman's Guide needs to understand that if they refuse to sell completely legal products based on idiotic, moronic policies that have no basis whatsoever in any legal realities, then they are going to suffer, big time.

Sportsman's Guide knows full well that Indiana residents can buy any mags they want to.

Sportsman's Guide is basing this decision on a PRE-EMPTED ordinance from one city government inside the entire state.

I live in Arkansas, and know full well that I can legally purchase any and all of the products listed in Sportsman's Guide catalog.

But they still refuse to sell certain items to me, even though all those products are completely legal for me to buy in this state.

That is not good business.

That is total and complete incompetent cowardice on the part of Sporsman's Guide.

hillbilly

 

[QuickDraw]

That is total and complete incompetent cowardice on the part of Sporsman's Guide.

Thats what I told 'em when they said they couldn't
ship ammo to me.
Funny,I can get ammo shipped from,Midway,The ammunition store,Outdoor Marksman....

QuickDraw

 

[stoky]

A knife was part of my order to Sportsman's Guide. The knife didn't ship and a note said they can't ship knives to Colorado. I E-mailed their Customer "Service" and told them that I lived in an unincorporated rural area, not Denver or the Glorious People's Republic of Boulder. I asked them what law this was based on. I'm pretty sure that knives have not been outlawed in Colorado. Their response was basically "There's no reason for it, it's just our policy."
I have subsequently ordered knives from Smoky Mountain and Cheaper Than Dirt, neither of which has had any problems shipping knives. As my father used to say "Son, don't ever beg anybody to take your money."

 

[FPrice]

With the list of things they put on their order blanks that cannot be shipped to various areas it's sometimes a wonder that they can ship anything at all.

The quality of some of the items i had ordered in the past combined with their (lack of) customer service convinced me to shop elsewhere.

 

[Pilot]

A knife was part of my order to Sportsman's Guide. The knife didn't ship and a note said they can't ship knives to Colorado. I E-mailed their Customer "Service" and told them that I lived in an unincorporated rural area, not Denver or the Glorious People's Republic of Boulder. I asked them what law this was based on. I'm pretty sure that knives have not been outlawed in Colorado. Their response was basically "There's no reason for it, it's just our policy."
I have subsequently ordered knives from Smoky Mountain and Cheaper Than Dirt, neither of which has had any problems shipping knives. As my father used to say "Son, don't ever beg anybody to take your money."

I ordered a survival knife from SG. They had it for the best price. I'm in Colorado also, so I got the notice that they can't ship it to me. I called the Customer Service department and told them to ship it to a friend of mine in another state. They said they couldn't do that. They had to have the billing address of my credit card in the different state. I don't live in Denver either. I wonder if its a statewide thing or just certain municipalities.

THe 5.45x39 ammo I ordered from them was backorderd, so instead of waiting, I cancelled the order and ordered from J&G. I will not but from SG anymore.

 

[NavajoNPaleFace]

J&G Sales in Prescott, Arizona does something simliar and that is why I WILL NOT buy from them again.

Even though there is no Arizona state law J&G requires proof of residence in order to buy a firearm. In other words no PO boxes are accepted. And where I live there are NO street addresses.

They also require a drivers license for ammo sales of 500 rounds or more.

All that information is keyed into a computer for future reference, in case no one knows.

I say boycott all of the business that form their own senseless policies.

 

[Oldtimer]

Bane, "Sportsman's Guide" has some VERY shaky attorneys working for them. Last year, I ordered a night vision monocular from them without realizing that it was classified as a "restricted" item for California residents. They sent me a refund check, and I called them to ask why the night vision equipment had been "restricted" for sending to California. They told me that it was an "eavesdropping device", and that it had been restricted by the State of California. HMM! Sort of strange, since my local gun store had the SAME EXACT night vision device for sale! Actually, it turned out okay for me, for I saved a couple of bucks by not having to pay the shipping costs! Still, it bothered me that "Sportsman's Guide" had it listed as a "restricted" item for California!
I called them again, and the response that I got was VERY idiotic! Their customer service employee told me that their legal people had "deemed" that night vision device as being "illegal" in California! HUH?

Needless to say, my patronage of "Sportsman's Guide" has been "deemed" to be "irrelevant" by me, since they tend to go on what their "legal department" erroneously gives out! It just verified to me that certain mail order firms are willing to cut their losses, just to remain on the "safe side", whether they're right or wrong! Anyway, "Sportsman's Guide" will NEVER get any of my money in the future!

 

[Justin]

I ordered a survival knife from SG. They had it for the best price. I'm in Colorado also, so I got the notice that they can't ship it to me.

That's the most idiotic thing I've heard all week. Especially since I took delivery of a knife I ordered from Cold Steel last week.

I've never ordered anything from SG, and after reading this thread, it looks like it's safe to say that I never will.

 

[entropy]

Odd. I've had nothing but the best customer sevice from them, and I cannot complain about the quality of items purchased form them. Of course, this could be derived from the fact that I shop at the store, I don't mail order from them. My biggest complaint is that they are usually out some of the ammo I stop in to get, because you guys all get first crack at it when you get your catalogs. I agree about their attorneys, though.

 

[thatguy]

NavajoNPaleFace- You describe their policies as senseless, but trust me, they must have a lawyer who doesn't see the policy as senseless telling them to do it. You may disagree, and they may be mistaken in their interpretation of the law, but they don't do these things capriciously despite what you may think. They want to sell their goods, but they don't want trouble from some over-zealous prosecutor, either.

As for the address thing, again, they are only trying to protect themselves from criminal and/or civil liability. From my past experience I realize that about 99% of the members of this forum dismiss the risks of being sued but these companies cannot afford to be that cavalier. They do get sued and it could put them out of business. They just want to verify that the ammo is going to the actual purchaser. If you don't have street numbers where do UPS and Fed-Ex go? Will they deliver to a PO box? You can't mail ammo, anyway. If not having numbers is a problem maybe you need to bring this up to city/county officials for action?

hillbilly- According to you Sportsman Guide prefers to refuse sales? Does this make sense to you? You state that they have no reason to refuse sales but obviously they must. They may be mistaken in their interpretation of the law, and maybe they are being (to us) over cautious, but you have to understand that the lawyers are telling them to be careful about any potential legal issue.

Have you asked them specifically why they can't ship what you want? Have to explained to them that the item(s) is legal in your state? Have they said why they won't ship to Arkansas?

The problem is with the myriad of confusing laws. These companies want to make sells and do business but it's difficult operating within so many federal, state and local jurisdictions. Sometimes they err, or seem to us to be too cautious, but it seems a little silly to accuse them of deliberately not wanting to make sales.

 

[El Tejon]

Matthew748, right before the Clinton ban, South Bend for no apparent reason decided to ban "assault weapons". The General Assembly in Indianapolis then passed preemption voiding the ordinance.

Sportman's Guide is using this defunct ordinance to deny everyone in Indiana sales of magazines. Remember, the gun business is about about making money, it is about telling people "NO!"

that, there is nothing confusing about it. There is no state law and SG is using a void ordinance as an excuse not to make sales.

SG is a poor excuse for a business, however it is the gun business thus it does not exist to make money, only to tell people no.

 

[jefnvk]

Since we are throwing out companies to boycott, add Wholesale Guns and Ammo and AIM Surplus to the list. AIM refuses to sell ammo to anyone under 21, although it is perfectly legal for me to buy it, and WGA won't sell their antique rifles to anyone under 21, even though it is legal.

 

[Justin]

EL T- LOL!

There's a gun shoppe here that doesn't tell people no without a good reason. Oddly enough, they're the most successful one in town.

 

[NineseveN]

Wow, this is kinda bad. In my BoB articles on my blog, I link some SG products from my list because that is where I purchased them from. I'm going to have to go back and remove those links and link this thread from my page.

I fully understand they have a lawyer telling them that, but you know what, they should see their competitors shipping things to places they don't ship them to and question what this lawyer is telling them. Businesses are out to make money, I don't think they would arbitrarily decide to refuse sending certain items to certain states without reason in their minds, but that matters not. It's bad enough we have anti's limiting what we can buy through stupid laws, we don't need to support a company that helps them along by limiting what they will ship us when there is no law to support it. I would rather my money go to a company that supports us to the fullest extent possible through the law. Ruger gets no money from me, Smith and Wesson still hasn't changed my mind, Sportsmen’s Guide seems to be making that list as well now.

We have a lot of buying and marketing power through this site, hopefully this thread continues and we can get some more info on companies that do the same things. I haven't had a problem ever with the companies I deal with, but as this thread proves, that doesn't mean my fellow shooters in Indiana or Colorado won't. If my friends elsewhere aren't good enough, neither am I. That's the attitude we should all consider. Put our money behind those that truly support us as a group, not just those of us in certain states.

 

[karlsgunbunker]

Sent them an e-mail still waiting for their response.

 

[hillbilly]

I did a little research and have some examples I would like add here. These all come from the Fall 2005 Shooter's catalog put out by Sportman's Guide.


First, one involving my state of Arkansas. Pages 114-115.

There are nine models of knives and one knife sharpener on these pages.

The "US Army Ranger Dagger" for $25.97 is "restricted" and cannot be shipped to Arkansas, at least according to SG's legal department.

Nor, can it be shipped to CO, CT, DE, ID, NH, NJ, NY, PA, or CA.

But you know what? On the same page is the Browning "hand forged" Stag that is also a double-edged dagger.

Apparently, the double-edged Browning Stag can be shipped to Arkansas. Of course, it costs $99.97. This one can also be shipped to DE, ID, NH, NJ, NY, and PA, but not to minors, felons, and residents of MA, DC, CO, CT, or residents of certain counties in CA.

So, according to SG's legal eagles, they can't ship two-edged daggers to Arkansas....only they can if it says "Browning" on it.

I'll bet they can't ship the "US Army Ranger Dagger" to Arkansas because it has that wacky, dangerous phrase "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of All Who Threaten Us" printed on the blade.......

Here are some other very interesting SG "legal" claims.

Apparently, none of the following items can be shipped to minors, convicted felons, or residents of MA or Wash D.C. (I suppose all the folks in MA and DC are either minors or felons?).

Page 25--handcrafted cowhide holsters and belts....we all recognize the need for criminal background checks on the sales of eeeeevil leather holsters and belts. And obviously, there are good, solid reasons for Sportmans' Guide to prevent the crazed, dangerous citizens of MA and DC from obtaining handcrafted cowhide made into the extremely dangerous shapes of holsters and belts.

The M-1 Carbine spring kit also cannot be shipped to MA or DC or to felons or minors. Nor can the G3 rear sight. But Sportmans' Guide WILL ship a Springfield 1903 rear sight to MA and to DC and apparently, to minors and felons.......My Lord! How can SG risk selling 1903 rear sights to residents of MA and DC and to even minors and felons?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Sportsman's Guide also refuses to sell Glock range bags, packages of RemDri dessicant, canvas M1 carbine belt pouches, several sizes of rubber recoil pads, .45 caliber revolver moonclips, and classic leather and belt sets for 1911pistols to minors, felons, or residents of MA and DC.

We can all see how much risk SG would be putting itself in by possibly selling polyester range bags, dessicant, canvas pouches, rubber recoil pads and leather holsters and belts to residents of MA, DC or to, (gasp!!) minors and felons!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Of course, SG's legal department has very good, solid reasons for all these restrictions.

Pachmayr Snap Caps cannot be sold to minors or felons. Nor can these eeeeeevil snap caps be shipped to much of CA, nor to Chicago, nor to NYC.

I even found a couple of items with the "RESTRICTED" code number of "37" on them.

However, in the lengthy list of restrictions in the catalog, there is no "37" listed.

Apparently, some items are sooooo dangerous that Sportsman's Guide, just like Dean Wormer of Faber College, has a "double-secret restricted status" that only their top-flight legal eagles are allowed to know about.

SG's high-quality Cowboy Bowie knife (only $24.97) cannot be shipped to CT, FL, ID, or CA. So they obviously cannot be shipped to minors, felons, and residents of MA and DC, either.

The fearsome Browning Bowie knives (7.5 inch long blades!!) also cannot be sold to minors, felons, nor to residents of MA, DC, CO, FL, ID, CA.

But, just below these fearsome killer knives is the beefy Colt Campmate knife with an 8-inch-long blade. While SG refuses to sell the awe-inspiring, beefy Colt Campmate to minors, felons, and residents of MA, DC, CO, CT, and a few counties in CA, they apparently can sell this even bigger, more dangerous knife to residents of FL and ID.

So, sorry, Floridians and Idahoans....you can't buy the Cowboy Bowie or the Browning Bowie, but you can buy the even bigger Colt Campmate........

Thank goodness that inert 105mm artillery shell fuses cannot be shipped to minors, felons, or residents of MA, DC, nor to residents of ME and MS.

And while minors, felons, and residents of MA and DC can buy all the night vision stuff they want from Sportman's Guide, all you Californians are just out of luck.....No shipments of anything night vision at all to California from Sportsman's Guide........Of course, SG is just using good legal judgment here.

But on the flip side, you Californians can laugh in the faces of all those minors, felons, and residents of MA and DC when you buy the 7.62X54 broken shell extractor.........any minors or felons or residents of MA or DC who dream of getting their hands on a 7.62X54 broken shell extractor are just S.O.L. if they try to sneak one from Sportman's Guide......

And I know we can all sleep better, knowing the Sportman's Guide is doing their level-best to keep minors, felons, and residents of MA, DC, CA, and NYC from getting their bloody hands on CETME front sight tools.

I mean for only $10 a pop, those folks could easily build up an arsenal of CETME front sight tools................

As everyone can plainly see, Sportman's Guide is clearly using top-notch legal advisers and is merely doing what it has to do to stay in business.

How silly we are to think that they might be a bunch of toe-sucking, mud-groveling, booger-eating idiots when it comes to setting their sales policies.....

hillbilly

 

[jsalcedo]

Hillbilly.

That was hilarious.

It reminds me of a game I played when I was a kid called paranoia. The whole game is set up in a society where everyones life is run like sportmans guide except failure to comply meant instant incineration.