Squib load

[Keeperfaith]

I had a true squib load today.

I pressed the trigger and heard nothing...

Knowing I had a loaded round in the chamber I dropped the mag, racked the slide and then locked the slide.

Sure enough, there was a bullet in the barrel. The brass case was black on the inside and dirty on the outside. There seemed to be very little powder in the case, unburnt.

So in y'all experience do you think I just didn't load enough powder in that one round? Or could it be a primer that failed to ignite all the powder?

My components:
Rainier 180 grain 40 cal
Accurate No. 2 (5.0 grains)
Speer brass case
Remington small pistol primer.
Gun: Smith and Wesson M&P 40.

Now the primer strike did look a little light but still very visible and it did ignite (as far as I could tell).

And I had only shot 5 rounds of the same load prior to the squib, the 5 shot great.

Any input is appreciated.

Thanks
Steve

 

[rcmodel]

do you think I just didn't load enough powder in that one round?

Yes.

Thats all it could be as you said yourself there was very little powder lift in the case.

rc

 

[ljnowell]

The primer had to ignite for the bullet to be in the barrel. The only option is an undercharge.

 

[Mike 27]

AA2 ignites extremely well and for a 40 that should be a good volume of case fill as well. I would tear down your entire batch and check them all.

 

[gamestalker]

Primers either detonate, or they don't, and it's not a light F.P. strike either. Visually inspect, with a good light source, each, and every case for a proper powder charge. This is a cardinal rule of reloading and can't be short cut, ever.

GS

 

[Slamfire]

Could be a dud primer.

 

[popper]

Probably NO powder. Done that a couple times. Weigh the remaining and break down light ones. If your scale can't see a 3 gr diff you need a different scale.

 

[floydster]

Any inert object will stay inert unless there is a driving force to move such object.
I just don't think you had enough driving force

Smokeyloads

 

[ljnowell]

Could be a dud primer.

With the bullet pushed into the barrel? I doubt it. AA#2 isnt a hard to light powder. I would say a sever undercharge, or no charge.

 

[gamestalker]

You know how many dude primers I've experienced in over 30 years of loading, zero. I would bet my wife, that it's either a very light powder charge or none at all.

GS

 

[rcmodel]

The primer had to ignite for the bullet to be in the barrel.

Egg Zactly.

A primer has just enough power to do what happened to you.
There was not enough powder in the case to continue the pressure curve and keep the bullet going once it hit the rifling.

You under-charged a case.

You need to seriously review your loading procedures and safety checks before bullet ever get anywhere near cases with powder, or not in them.

rc

 

[BYJO4]

I have to agree that you either had no powder or very little powder in that case. You need to monitor your powder drop closely.

 

[ljnowell]

Egg Zactly.

A primer has just enough power to do what happened to you.
There was not enough powder in the case to continue the pressure curve and keep the bullet going once it hit the rifling.

You under-charged a case.

You need to seriously review your loading procedures and safety checks before bullet ever get anywhere near cases with powder, or not in them.

rc

I would be curious to know more about the situation. Single stage, turret or progressive? What kind of measure. I like AA#2 and AA#5 just because they flow so good through a powder measure. Makes me wonder if they werent single staged and a case just skipped over.

 

[Keeperfaith]

Hey all thanks for the replys. I do believe it was an undercharge. And that upsets me very very much. Its all I thought about all day. I had to leave the range because I didn't have the tools to punch out the bullet.

I did come home and weigh all the remaining bullets, they all averaged 256.5 grains (full bullet, case, primer and powder) give or take a grain and a half.

So, I'm thinking the same as most of you are, it was just an under load.

FYI, I use a single stage RCBS Jr 2. The powder measure is a RcBS Uniflow. And I do at least 10 measurments before I even drop the first load into a case. I'm very meticulous but I dropped the ball on this one...

Thx

 

[FROGO207]

The thing that worries me when these things happen to reloaders is the possibility of a bridged charge. No or little propellant dropped and on the next one a double charge, or almost so. That can be worse than a squib. Please make sure that every casing has the same charge volume in it to avoid this. Or you will be talking about a hospital trip if you are lucky.

 

[PO2Hammer]

I did come home and weigh all the remaining bullets, they all averaged 256.5 grains (full bullet, case, primer and powder) give or take a grain and a half.

That's not an accurate enough way to check your ammo. Differences in bullet weight and/or case weight can be greater than a powder charge.

 

[jim243]

Any input is appreciated

You need to put powder in the case, period. You set the bullet off with primer only.

This will get you hurt, check twice from now on when reloading. I always visually check the powder level in the case before I put a bullet on top.


Jim

 

[ATLDave]

That's not an accurate enough way to check your ammo. Differences in bullet weight and/or case weight can be greater than a powder charge.

Depends on the variances in brass and bullets, and the weight of the charge. If your brass is +/- 1 gr, and your bullets are +/- .2 gr, and your powder charge is 8 gr, even the lightest brass and bullet combo will show a double charge as being too high, and even the heaviest brass and bullet will not mask a no-charge. Won't necessarily work for half-charges if you've got a powder known to bridge. Won't work if you don't sort brass and have big variations. And it won't work with small charges of fast powder.

 

[ljnowell]

Depends on the variances in brass and bullets, and the weight of the charge. If your brass is +/- 1 gr, and your bullets are +/- .2 gr, and your powder charge is 8 gr, even the lightest brass and bullet combo will show a double charge as being too high, and even the heaviest brass and bullet will not mask a no-charge. Won't necessarily work for half-charges if you've got a powder known to bridge. Won't work if you don't sort brass and have big variations. And it won't work with small charges of fast powder.

Have you ever weighed a hundred or so pistol brass? We did it here once and in 45 acp withing the same headstamp( i did winchester and cci) there were as much as 6-8gr difference in cases alone. Using lead bullets with wax lube, easy to get a couple more grains difference.

 

[ATLDave]

ljnowell, I actually have. Some brands and calibers seem to have wide variations, or else subtle little differences in headstamps that mean big changes in weight. I was actually loading .45 ACP last night into Winchester brass and was pretty annoyed at the wide variation in weights - it caused me to individually weigh almost every charge, as opposed to trusting the thrower and a visual check. Or if you use Federal 9mm brass, some have "FC" as the headstamp, some have ".FC.," and some have only one dot. Each has its own apparent nominal weight, so those have to be sorted as well.

As for the bullets, I mostly use jacketed ones, and the variances are generally pretty tight.

 

[jeepmor]

I've had this happen when I first started reloading and I here is what I discovered.

1. I had cleaned, prepped and primed a bunch of 45 cases.
2. I setup my press for seating the bullets.
3. I set the seating depth with an empty case....that had a primer installed.
4. Once I had this 'setup' cartridge dialed in for seating depth, I set it aside....
5. My setup bullet had a primer and bullet in it, leaving no indication it was a setup cartridge.
6. I found a complete cartridge on my bench while cleaning up and forgot it was a 'setup' bullet....and put it in with the rest of my completed cartridges.
7. Fired it, squibbed due to no powder.

Learning - setup bullets now get built w/o primers so they don't get confused for completed cartridges.

Hope this helps.

 

[ljnowell]

ljnowell, I actually have. Some brands and calibers seem to have wide variations, or else subtle little differences in headstamps that mean big changes in weight. I was actually loading .45 ACP last night into Winchester brass and was pretty annoyed at the wide variation in weights - it caused me to individually weigh almost every charge, as opposed to trusting the thrower and a visual check. Or if you use Federal 9mm brass, some have "FC" as the headstamp, some have ".FC.," and some have only one dot. Each has its own apparent nominal weight, so those have to be sorted as well.

As for the bullets, I mostly use jacketed ones, and the variances are generally pretty tight.

Why would weight matter when visual checking a cartridge? Why would anyone want to sort pistol cases by weight? Those are two questions that beg to be answered.

 

[engineermike]

In the last 12 months I've had 4 squib loads and each one had no powder . I, or I should say my wife bought a package of flash lights at a home store and I took one of the 3 inch LED lights and it now sits on my reloading bench. After I put powder in the cases I set them on the bench and after I've loaded the prepared cases with powder I take my little light and check each one. I have not had a squib since.

 

[erikk8829]

Should NEVER happen...Period Visual EVERY case Every time, no exceptions

 

[ATLDave]

Why would weight matter when visual checking a cartridge? Why would anyone want to sort pistol cases by weight? Those are two questions that beg to be answered.

In order: 1. Because people make mistakes. I am, as of the last check, still a member of that classification. A total cartridge weight check is a QC double-check. It's not sufficient by itself. It can be a useful backstop.

2. So that the final weight of the cartridge has meaning (see prior post)! And so that if problems manifest with a particular brand/headstamp of brass, it's easy to segregate both loaded and unloaded cases with that brass.