Staging self-defense guns for retrieval in an attack...

[The Night Rider]

Put that way, I agree, but I'm not sure that I would characterize getting out of my couch to defend against an intruder in the room as "going forward". The threat has already come to me.

If I'm facing an intruder in my living room from my couch. He climbed two stories of the flat wall and got in my window without me noticing it

 

[Kleanbore]

If I'm facing an intruder in my living room from my couch. He climbed two stories of the flat wall and got in my window without me noticing it

Are you saying that if you became aware that he was in your house while you were sitting on your couch that you would go looking for him?

 

[crstrode]

Friend of mine who was a Seattle cop for 30 years disagrees with you. In all that time, he never saw a burglar find a hidden gun, but there were many instances of them breaking into and stealing guns that were in safes.

Is that Cop friend named Sgt. Shultz?

Cops are rarely at a burglary in progress to "see" burglars take anything.

 

[The Night Rider]

Are you saying that if you became aware that he was in your house while you were sitting on your couch that you would go looking for him?

I'm saying that if I was facing an intruder in my living room whoever it was would have had to climb two stories up a flat wall and got in a locked window. I mean is there any part of that statement that's ambiguous to you?

My home is small enough that if I became aware of an intruder while I was sitting on my couch in the living room all I would have to do is account for my wife, draw my gun and point it down the hallway from the living room. When I did that I would be taking cover behind the corner of a wall which is the strongest part of any wall in a building.

there are only four doorways in my home (which if I'm not being abundantly clear is an apartment) and that one move would cover all four of them. Then I would have my wife call the police and I'd wait.

I don't leave windows in my house unlocked unless I am in the same room with them.

The front (only) door is never unlocked unless I'm coming in or going out.

You are not going to get into my house without kicking in the door or breaking window and I'm going to know when you do that

I've cleared buildings before, it's not something I like doing. The only way I'd go looking for an intruder in my house would be of one of my family members was unaccounted for.

You seem to have appointed yourself the resident expert on all things home defense. It might surprise you to know that there are people on this forum that have more training and experience than you do.

 

[The Night Rider]

If it'll make it all feel better I'm about to go out and pick up some medications at CVS for my wife. So I put on Army PT pants and actual shoes

 

[Kleanbore]

My home is small enough that if I became aware of an intruder while I was sitting on my couch in the living room all I would have to do is account for my wife, draw my gun and point it down the hallway from the living room. When I did that I would be taking cover behind the corner of a wall which is the strongest part of any wall in a building.

Good. I had the impression that you were suggesting "going forward" (toward the threat) vs letting the threat come to you.

You seem to have appointed yourself the resident expert on all things home defense. It might surprise you to know that there are people on this forum that have more training and experience than you do.

What I have said here is consistent with the advise of every knolwedgeable trainer of whom I have heard, and I do not see how it differs from what you have said you would do.

 

[bearcreek]

Cops are rarely at a burglary in progress to "see" burglars take anything.

Clearly I wasn't talking about him actually seeing the burglary in progress. The cops get called after the fact. When he arrived at the scene, he regularly found that guns that had been in a safe had been stolen. Guns that were hidden never were.

 

[bearcreek]

Proves nothing.

LEO friends who responded to burglary call describe every drawer having been dumped, every piece of furniture knocked over, every cabinet emptied, mattresses removed, and so on.

Hidden guns, hidden cash, and everything else of any value---gone.

In and out in less then 30 min.

I have no need or desire to prove anything to strangers on the internet. I was simply relaying something that a 30 year veteran police officer experienced. I really don't care what you do with his information.

 

[bdickens]

Friend of mine who was a Seattle cop for 30 years disagrees with you. In all that time, he never saw a burglar find a hidden gun, but there were many instances of them breaking into and stealing guns that were in safes.

That is what's known as "hasty generalization." Look it up.

 

[bearcreek]

That is what's known as "hasty generalization." Look it up.

No. That is what's known as one police officer's personal experience. He didn't say that was all police officer's experience. He didn't even say it was all police officers in his department's experience. There was no generalization.

 

[HKGuns]

Well if I can't get to a gun or knife I'll resort to going ape$hit on his arse with my bare hands.

I have guns ready to get into action quickly. But you better also be in shape and able to handle yourself.

 

[bdickens]

No. That is what's known as one police officer's personal experience. He didn't say that was all police officer's experience. He didn't even say it was all police officers in his department's experience. There was no generalization.

Yeah well then why even bring it up except to try refuting the assertion that burglars are good at finding things that people have hidden?

The fact is that human beings are extraordinarily predictable; you can't think of anywhere in your house to hide something that thousands of other people haven't thought of before. The only thing that's going to keep them from finding it is time constraints- that they don't get there before having to leave - certainly not your superlative ingenuity.

And if you could, you sure as hell wouldn't be able to get to such an obscure place in time.

 

[Mauser lover]

View attachment 1184296
People seem really bothered by my clothing choices here.



I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be caught by surprise while I'm at home.

Maybe while transitioning in or out you heard that didn't you but not one kicked back on the couch with my cat

Looks like when you are decked out in your flannel trousers, you at least have a less-lethal option! Are cats as effective as pepper spray, or slightly more effective?

 

[bearcreek]

Yeah well then why even bring it up except to try refuting the assertion that burglars are good at finding things that people have hidden?

Because it's relevant. People are often interested in the opinion of those with lots of experience in a given subject. In the case of safes vs hidden storage, all we have to go on is opinions. I very much doubt you're going to find conclusive statistics one way or the other.

 

[The Night Rider]

Looks like when you are decked out in your flannel trousers, you at least have a less-lethal option! Are cats as effective as pepper spray, or slightly more effective?

My cat is lazy as hell. But on a serious note even when I'm at home I have a small can of pepper spray with me.

As I've mentioned previously we have a ring camera and we know who's at our door before we go answer it.

I still take the OC with me

 

[dobedo]

A lot of hoopla over untrained and accessibility of the owner's gun. Pi _ _Poor Training is dangerous to oneself and their loved ones. The lady grabbing the knife had her head screwed on right and was forward thinking. I do not care how many guns one staches if they are not readily accessible, one in the chamber and hammer cocked without practice and training you will get someone killed. The door to the jeweler's workshop was junk plywood. It should be a steel door with steel frame and open to the outside so it cannot be kicked in. It also should be locked at all times. He should have had a video feed in the workspace so he can keep an eye on things. 1-2 seconds in preparation could save your life. The other thing robbers generally hood up and bum rush the establishments. If it was my store the store front would be break resistant glass. There would be a sign on the door to gain entry please ring the bell. This would deter 99% of the thugs as they would not be hooded up. Sometimes we are our own worst enemy. My doors at home are 100% locked all the time. They are steel with no glass so a dirt bag cannot get in. The doors on my house are not there to protect my family. They are there to protect the dirt bags from me.

 

[Mauser lover]

My cat is lazy as hell. But on a serious note even when I'm at home I have a small can of pepper spray with me.

As I've mentioned previously we have a ring camera and we know who's at our door before we go answer it.

I still take the OC with me

I’m a “cat person”, so take this as intended (I have 5). A flying ball of fluff and claws is at the very least, very distracting.

 

[Kleanbore]

Because it's relevant.

It does not support the idea that guns can be effectively hidden from burglars--which is what "it" asserted.

 

[bearcreek]

It does not support the idea that guns can be effectively hidden from burglars--which is what "it" asserted.

Can you define "support"? If an officer said, "in my 30 year career, I saw a lot more guns stolen from hiding places than from safes", would that "support" the idea that safes work better than hiding? I would say so, no? I did tree work for 20 years. If I say, "in 20 years of cutting trees, I saw more rotten red maples than rotten white oaks", does that "support" the idea that red maples tend to rot more easily than white oaks? It doesn't prove it conclusively, but it sorta lends "support" to the notion I think.

 

[bdickens]

Can you define "support"? If an officer said, "in my 30 year career, I saw a lot more guns stolen from hiding places than from safes", would that "support" the idea that safes work better than hiding? I would say so, no? I did tree work for 20 years. If I say, "in 20 years of cutting trees, I saw more rotten red maples than rotten white oaks", does that "support" the idea that red maples tend to rot more easily than white oaks? It doesn't prove it conclusively, but it sorta lends "support" to the notion I think.

None of your examples support any such assertions. Both have a sample size of one, which is what is known as "statistically insignificant."

Ergo, the logical fallacy of hasty generalization.

One would have to survey a sufficiently random selection of something like a couple thousand cops or loggers before making some kind of reasonable conclusion.

 

[Jeff White]

A staged self defense gun and one that is well enough concealed that the chances of a burglar finding it are very low are two completely different things.

The only way I can see that working is a purpose built hiding place and even then things like hidden latches are not going to be any faster than a safe with a biometric lock.

 

[bearcreek]

None of your examples support any such assertions. Both have a sample size of one, which is what is known as "statistically insignificant."

Ergo, the logical fallacy of hasty generalization.

One would have to survey a sufficiently random selection of something like a couple thousand cops or loggers before making some kind of reasonable conclusion.

I made no assertions. I relayed the opinion of one man. There is no way to conclusively prove one side or the other on this question. Too many variables. Educated opinions are all we have to go on. You can do with my friend's opinion what you will. I have not stated my opinion on the subject in this thread.

 

[dobedo]

One of my favorite spots to store a pistol is between the cushions of a chair of sofa. Loaded, cocked one round chambered can pull out in less than 2 seconds while getting a round off before the dirt bag takes one step in. Practice makes perfect when doing anything it builds muscle memory and you do not have to think as it then becomes built in. I probably have practiced 100+ times with dummy rounds while my wife times me. The same thing applies when you are sound asleep. How many can jump up with in 5-10 seconds ID your target and get a round out? Putting a gun on a nightstand is only the first step most will fumble it and not be ready.

When I was in Kuwait, we were camped, and my security force was a Marine recon group. The gunny decided to see what I was made of and as a joke threw a camel spider in my tent. I heard the zipper open, and something hit the inside. I jumped up and 3 rounds of my side arm went off killing a big ass camel spider. I calmly went back to my rack while the rest of the camp went to GQ. I just laid there and snickered. Keeping your edge sharp through life is important part of life. At 69 and the older you get situational awareness becomes your edge. Although some younger can be faster it does not help if you can read your surroundings. For example, how many times have you seen others walk into something while looking at their phone? How many people get mugged while wearing their earbuds/headphones? Just a few easy ones no situation awareness and they will be the fodder.

 

[Kleanbore]

I made no assertions. I relayed the opinion of one man.

I made no assertions. I relayed the opinion of one man. Educated opinions are all we have to go on.

That was cleraly not what could reasonably be considered an educated opinion.

I have not stated my opinion on the subject in this thread.

Did you not expect people to infer that you also disagreed with the concern about the risk of theft?

Why else would you mention it?

 

[Kleanbore]

One of my favorite spots to store a pistol is between the cushions of a chair of sofa. Loaded, cocked one round chambered can pull out in less than 2 seconds while

That works whan one is sitting on the chair or sofa.