Starting out Right

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amanda

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I’m about to buy my first gun, but I have some barriers I hope you all can help me with.

-I have very little experience (as in I’ve shot a rifle once and a revolver once)
-I have very little knowledge about guns (But I’m learning!)
-I have few people I can ask about guns and/or people whose guns I can try out (I’m grateful for the ones I have):)

Other specifics:

-As this is the first and only gun I will have for a while because of cash flow, I need it for multi-purpose: Home defense and eventually concealed carry primarily.
-I have set aside roughly $800 – which does not include ammo, storage, cleaning, nor accessories.
-I am a female and have small hands (But they’re strong!)

I need suggested guns and I need to know what other questions I should be asking.

So far I’ve come across these guns from previous posts which have been repeated: Sig 220/238/226, Glock 36/26/17/19, Ruger GP 100, Kahr P45, Bursa Firestorm, Taurus PT, XDM9, Colt Python. I find myself leaning toward a .357 magnum from what I’ve read because I can use .38 ammo for training more cheaply and have more stopping power with the .357 magnum ammo when I carry. But I’m not excluding 9mm nor .45 if I find they feel right and are concealable/manageable. I haven’t looked up pricing yet, but this is where I am so far.

Any help is greatly appreciated, so thanks in advance:D
 
Is there a range nearby where you can rent and shoot different guns? Actually shooting a particular gun is the best way to see if it works for you.
 
The closest range that I knowe of is bring your own kind of deal, the only one that will allow me to rent that I know of so far is about an hour north of me. I plan on renting one or two guns and I'm going to try out some of my friend's guns in a few weeks (lives in a different state). But as I want to put most of my money into the gun itself, I can only rent so much. The better an idea of what might work that I have, I figure the better the chances of my coming across the right one. Also, I have knowledge lust. I want to know it all.:rolleyes:
 
I am also concerned about your plan to carry full house magnum 357 loads in your first conceal carry (snubby presumably) gun. You should NOT decide on this until you have shot such a gun.
 
Before you go renting guns or shooting guns, learn about handgun fit. Everyone has hands shaped a bit different and manufacturers all have different grip angles, thickness and reach built into their particular brand of firearm. Then spend the time to rent or borrow ones that fit. You're wasting time with the ones that don't fit your hands. Find someone near you who knows how to explain this, whether it is a gunshop employee (crap shoot. Some good, some clueless) or a friend/relative/neighbor.

Be realistic about what you are willing to compromise to carry a handgun. As a daily carrier of a fullsize service pistol, there are compromises I make with my wardrobe and to a lesser extent, my comfort. If you are not honest with yourself, the gun you bought for CCW will wind up staying at home most of the time instead of being carried as a CCW.

Carry the largest handgun in the largest caliber you can. Ability to alter your wardrobe, what size handgun grip fits your hands and recoil management technique all determine this. For some, this is going to be a .380 pocket gun. For others, it's going to be a full size pistol in a .40 caliber or larger. Be honest with yourself. If you automatically assume you MUST have a "mouse gun", you're short-changing yourself on handgun performance. If you err on the opposite end and buy too large a handgun, it will soon become that waste of money you leave in your dresser drawer or lock box.
 
Please keep 1911 Guy's comments close at hand.

I bought the gun I shoot best, big enough but not too big. I dress as I must to conceal it
 
Doc7 Have you gotten to an NRA basic pistol class? I highly recommend it.
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^^^This and what 1911 guy said, because he stated it much better than I could.

I would look up Massad Ayoob, http://massadayoobgroup.com/, http://backwoodshome.com/blogs/MassadAyoob/

And Kathy Jackson http://www.corneredcat.com/. Both would be very helpful and have written a lot on SD and handguns.

Also Ed Lovette http://www.amazon.com/The-Snubby-Revolver-Concealed-Standard/dp/1581605714 Even if you do not get a Snubbie this book had some very good things to know if you CCW any handgun.

Some handguns you may want to look at are,
S&W 3913 http://www.gunbroker.com/All/BI.aspx?Keywords=smith+and+wesson+3913 I have it's big brother the Shorty 45 and it is a very
nice handgun.

Sig P239 http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductList/pistols-p239.aspx http://www.gunbroker.com/All/BI.aspx?Keywords=SIG+P239

Ruger SR9C http://www.ruger.com/products/sr9c/models.html

S&W Shield http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...80153_757781_757781_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

S&W 640 http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...57768_757767_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y, but would not advise starting with .357s for awhile.

Ruger SP101, http://www.ruger.com/products/sp101/models.html My Mom has one and loves it.

Hope this helps and good luck. Just remember what works best for someone else may not work for you, all we can do is tell you what might work for you.
 
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Look for an NRA women on target event near you. All participants are women, the entire event is based on women with little or no experience with firearms and want to learn.
 
Many of the guns you listed are great choices but the Python will run well north of twice your projected budget. :D

The Bersa/Firestorm (same gun, under two names) are great values. The 9mm version ("Thunder 9") uses the most-readily and affordable ammunition. I have it in .380, and it's a great shooter, but that ammo is a little pricier and harder to find due to the popularity of the "keychain" .380 pistols.

Others have already rendered some wise words here. Good luck!
 
If you have read post 6 by 1911 guy, that's great. Now go back and read it again. There is GREAT advice in there.

One thing I would just emphasize very heavily, which 1911 guy brought up, is proper fit to your hand. A handgun must be suited to you. You need to pick a gun that assures proper grip, and also assures proper trigger reach. If either one is off, the gun can be very uncomfortable to shoot, even in a less potent cartridge.

A good example, I have a S&W 686 .357 revolver. The grip that came on it was way too narrow and left the backstrap open. I needed a bigger grip. So I got one that was wider with finger grooves. The gun then fit my hand properly, or so I thought. When I went to shoot it, it rocked back in my hand and beat up the web of my hand, and smacked my trigger finger. No good.

So while the gun grip fit in my hand ok, it was still too small. It did not increase the length to the trigger enough for my large hands. So I bought another grip that was as wide as the last, with finger grooves, but also covered the backstrap of the grip. Now I have the proper amount of finger on the trigger, the grip fills my hand, and I shoot the gun well and comfortably.

The point is that often when recoil is percieved to be uncomfortable, it's because the gun doesn't actually fit your hand. If it fits you well, you'd be very surprised at the stout loads you can shoot well. So shooting rented guns and borrowed guns is a great idea, but keep in mind that revolver grips are interchangeable, and many modern semi auto guns have interchangeable inserts that will help semi customize a gun to suite you. Don't let shooting someone else's guns scare you away from a caliber.
 
I agree with the others that 1911 guy has covered the major points.

I carry a Ruger SR9c. That doesn't mean that it is really the best choice available, or even close to it.

As a matter of fact, it appears nowhere on this list. I suggest reading the article. The author knows his stuff.
 
I also recommend The Cornered Cat to every female I meet that has questions about guns. There is no better site, IMO, for a female shooter to learn the basics. Of course, Pax is also very revered here.
 
Thanks for all the feedback!

-I'll start looking for an women's NRA class.
-I've read and loved Gift of Fear,
-I started reading cornered cat last night (a little) and
-I am appreciative of all the links I can look through.
-Thanks 1911 guy for the good insight. When you talk about grip angles what does that refer to exactly? Has that to do with a certain type of frame?
-I'm glad 460 Kodiak that you brought up interchangable grips, I'd read about different kinds of grips, but thought it ws mainly ornamental/level of friction vs builtup for hand size. Is the grip that comes with the gun the smallest or just average size generally?
 
Here's the skinny on grip angle. Imagine the barrel is parallel to the ground, pointing straight ahead of you. Now imagine your hand gripping the frame of the handgun. Your hand will not be perpendicular to the ground, but thumb slightly forward of your pinky finger. On the two extremes, a Glock pistol will have your thumb very far forward of the pinky finger, a 1911 will have your thumb much closer to a position directly above the pinky finger finger. The closer to perpendicular your hand is to the ground, the less the grip angle. Neither is right or wrong, but a matter of personal preference and comfort.

Another thing that figures greatly into handgun fit is the width of the grip frame, that is, how wide, from left side to right side, the pistol is. Small hands will require a narrower pistol to be comfortable. Narrower, however, does not require giving up on larger calibers or magazine capacity. Newer handguns have made great advances in engineering and materials. The Spingfield XD, for example, holds 13 rounds of .45 ACP in a pistol that is very close to the same width as a 1911 which holds 7 rounds of the same cartridge.

The last thing to consider is trigger reach. This is the distance from the rearmost point on the grip to the front of the trigger. Again, smaller handguns will usually have a shorter trigger reach. However, a simple number of inches from point A to point B isn't the whole story. Two pistols with identical trigger reach will feel very different in your hands if the width of the frame is considerably different. This is because the "fatter" pistol will use up more of your hand reaching around the grip, rather than allowing your hand to lie relatively flat along the grip frame of the pistol.

Since revolvers are still on your list (presumably), you'll also need to be aware that revolvers and autos tend to feel radically different in your hands. I suggest going to a gunshop with a good selection and simply seeing whether revolvers or autoloaders feel better in your hands.

A quick test to determine if a handgun is a decent fit for you:
1) Pick up the pistol and make sure it is unloaded (I know, obvious. But make it a habit.)
2) Pick a spot on the wall as far away as you can see. This will likely be a matter of feet or a few yards, assuming it's inside a gunshop.
3) Squarely face the spot and hold the pistol at "high ready". This is both hands on the handgun at approximately the bottom of your ribcage.
4) Keeping your eyes on the spot on the wall, bring the pistol up into your line of vision and extend it toward the spot.
5) Pay attention to whether the front sight is above or below the spot. Left or right isn't overly important right now.

If the front sight is well above the spot, you need a pistol with less grip angle. If well below, you need a pistol with a greater grip angle.
 
Now about trigger reach. When you pointed the pistol at the spot on the wall, the front sight was likely well off center, right or left. Rather than contorting your hands and wrists (assuming you are squared up to the spot on the wall), the way to adjust right or left is by moving the pistol from one side to the other in the pocket formed by the base of your thumb and first finger. To be clear, I am talking about rotating the pistol or revolver slightly in your hand as you grip it. Moving the rearmost portion of the grip toward your thumb will result in the front sight moving to the right (assuming you're right handed, reverse if left handed) and "twisting" the pistol so the rear of the grip moves toward the first finger will move the front sight to the left.

If you're at a gunshop, there's probably about a half dozen handguns out on the counter that passed the grip angle test from my previous post. Now it's time to thin the herd. The "sweet spot" will have the front sight roughly centered on the target and the pad of your trigger finger halfway of slightly more on the trigger. Turning/twisting/rotating the grip in your hand will change the amount of finger that extends into the trigger guard.

Keep in mind that no handgun, unless you are incredibly lucky, is going to feel or fit perfectly. What you are looking for is something that fits well enough that you won't be fighting the handgun while trying to learn to use it.
 
Is the grip that comes with the gun the smallest or just average size generally?
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In general it is average. That way the manufacturer can reach the biggest group out there. It should be noted that in general revolvers have more choices of truly custom grips of all different shapes and sizes. Most modern semiautos come with 2 or maybe 3 options of grip panel sizes. Some are more customizable than others though. Google is your friend for finding custom or after market parts for guns. It isn't just about looks. A proper grip that fits your hand is absolutely essential in shooting any gun well. 1911guy has another great bit of info and explains my point from earlier quite well so I'll just quote him.

Another thing that figures greatly into handgun fit is the width of the grip frame, that is, how wide, from left side to right side, the pistol is. Small hands will require a narrower pistol to be comfortable. Narrower, however, does not require giving up on larger calibers or magazine capacity. Newer handguns have made great advances in engineering and materials. The Spingfield XD, for example, holds 13 rounds of .45 ACP in a pistol that is very close to the same width as a 1911 which holds 7 rounds of the same cartridge.

The last thing to consider is trigger reach. This is the distance from the rearmost point on the grip to the front of the trigger. Again, smaller handguns will usually have a shorter trigger reach. However, a simple number of inches from point A to point B isn't the whole story. Two pistols with identical trigger reach will feel very different in your hands if the width of the frame is considerably different. This is because the "fatter" pistol will use up more of your hand reaching around the grip, rather than allowing your hand to lie relatively flat along the grip frame of the pistol.
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This is well put. It took me a few years and a lot of wasted money to figure it out.

A good test is to ask a salesperson if you can dry fire the gun. Pull the trigger and hold it. Then try to move the barrel up. The gun shouldn't move much and the web of your hand should be in full contact with the gun at all times. This way your wrist is the pivot point of the gun and your entire arm will absorb the recoil rather than the gun shifting in your hand and smacking you. In the latter, your hand absorbs most of the recoil.

Your trigger finger should be on the trigger right at the first joint or on the first pad of your finger. When the trigger is puller , your finger should not hit your thumb, it should move in encumbered.
 
Keep in mind that no handgun, unless you are incredibly lucky, is going to feel or fit perfectly.
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Also true. Customize and perfect after you find a gun that meets your needs and is practical for you.

Don't neglect a good carry method either. A cheap holster can cause big problems.
 
Assorted general information post. Stuff we experienced handgunners take for granted but isn't intuitive information that a new shooter would know.

Generally, larger handguns are easier to shoot than smaller handguns. This is because the larger mass and weight soaks up recoil and the longer sight radius (distance from rear sight to front sight) makes aiming easier. Most of the tiny "mouseguns" marketed to women are NOT beginner guns and seldom are suited to someone with slightly less hand strength. If you really dislike them, give them a Scandium framed S&W loaded with full-house .357 Magnum rounds. Then they'll not like you right back.

Shooting is not a "easy as falling off a log" activity. It requires technique and skills not used for most other activities. Especially when beginning, proper instruction is essential to eventually become proficient.

Off body carry, that is, carrying a handgun in a purse or briefcase, is a method of last resort. Unless prohibited by some circumstance beyond your control, carry on your person in a holster. Even if you wind up with a literal "pocket gun", get a pocket holster for it.

The best holster in the world is worthless when worn on a crappy belt. Any belt that is not a specifically designed gunbelt is a crappy belt. You don't need to worry about fashion, though. There are reputable companies that make very good looking belts in everything from cowhide at low cost to exotic animal leathers costing hundreds, depending on your taste and budget.

As for holsters, I'll leave you to Kathy at Cornered Cat. I have ZERO experience recommending concealed carry holsters for women. This is simply because women are, surprise, shaped differently than men.

If you carry an autoloader, buy magazines. This is for two reasons. First, most failures are magazine related. The fastest way to get a "down" handgun back "up" is to drop the mag and reload. Secondly, they are to be considered consumable items. Yes, they will last indefinitely if cared for at all. But you don't want to care for them. When they're empty, they get tossed to the ground and a new one inserted into the pistol. When shooting while moving, they get stepped on because you're watching the threat or target, not staring at your feet to protect your magazines.

If you carry a revolver, learn to use speed loaders. This is NOT something to "learn" on your own. You will get it wrong. There is a technique to it that both controls the revolver and keeps the cylinder from turning so you're not chasing little holes around in a circle trying to reload.

Check out www.tdiohio.com Excellent school. Not cheap, but excellent. If you take the first three days of their handgun classes, you'll be light years ahead of the majority of people. They consider themselves a school, not a mini boot-camp. Instruction, not berating and yelling. They're in West Union, down near Portsmouth.

If it would be closer, I can also refer you to some smaller classes in the Portage, Geauga, Trumbull and Mahoning county areas. They're decent, less expensive, but not a real competitor for the level of instruction you'll get at TDI.
 
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Thanks for the fantastic advice. I went to a gun shop for the first time today to feel a few guns in my own hands. I wish I'd read this before I went out! I'll take a look at that school too.
 
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