State law vs Company policy

[oneounceload]

Don't forget nuclear power plants as well....

 

[545days]

There are many legal things I could do which would get me fired.

1. I could exercise my right to free speach, and write letters to the editor about everything negative that the company I work for has ever done.

2. I could quit coming in on time, or leave early.

3. I could sleep at my desk.

4. I could wear only a swimsuit into the office.

4. I could pack a gun onto my employer's property even though my employer has not posted a 30.06 sign. (I'm in Texas.)

All are legal. All could get me fired.

 

[Diggers]

NO a state LAW does not supercede a company policy.

A company can make up any policy it want as long a there isn't a LAW saying they can't.

 

[Dokkalfar]

State Law does supercede Company Policy in a legal sense. However, unless the law specifically says an employer CAN'T or HAS TO do something, the policies are fully enforceable by the company. And there's nothing you could do to them legally for it.

 

[divemedic]

Correct, plus Disney and some others like defense contractors, etc.

Actually, Disney settled that case quietly out of court to keep the details out of public knowledge. The plaintiff was paid off. Disney is not as clever as they think. The exception in the law is for any property licensed to handle explosives. The Disney complex is many square miles, and only a 5 acre parcel is licensed for explosives. The rest of the Disney complex is fair game.

NO a state LAW does not supercede a company policy.

Actually, many state laws do. Florida and Oklahoma are a couple of good examples of gun laws. Many, many laws supersede company policy. Fire codes, for example.

However, unless the law specifically says an employer CAN'T or HAS TO do something, the policies are fully enforceable by the company. And there's nothing you could do to them legally for it.

This one does.

 

[moga]

Divemedic, I've been wondering if you are the local divemedic but you can't be. Otherwise you would have certainly cited GA law in this thread.

Georgia has code in their firearm law that makes it illegal for an employer to hire/fire on the basis of firearm carry if their parking facilities are unfenced or ungated. It isn't ironclad b/c a simple crossgate isn't exactly the epitome of company security but many people are still afforded protection from being fired for having their carry guns in their car while they work. There are limits to that, such as places statutorily off limits by state and/or federal law to gun carry and to company vehicles, but for most private companies, that's the way it works.

This applies to car storage only. If your employer doesn't allow workplace carry, that's the end of it.

 

[Dr. Sandman]

Never mind about the facts. The truth is that if you really want to find out the answer to your question, it will take a long time, lots of money, and many dealings with lawyers. You will likely find out the answer long after you have been let go from your current job. My advice to you is to keep the gun locked in the car, and keep your mouth shut about it.

 

[Webbj0219]

Just about every civilian work place I can think of frowns on this. Their worried about ppl going postal. The company if the find you violating this can exercise disciplinary action as they see fit, whether its writing you up or firing you. They just cant press any kinda charges, since you werent breaking any law.

Now on the other hand, is the company every going to find out you have a gun in your truck? Unless you have a shotgun mounted in your rear window (like was popular at the last place I worked), or you tell the workplace brown nose that you have it out there, its not likely. So just keep the shotgun under your back seat or something (in the case of the pickup truck). But then again its up to you. You arent breaking the law, and the worst that can happen to you is company discipline. So you just need to way out the risks and decide for yourself if its worth it to you.

 

[xjmox14x]

Most (if not all states) are hire-at-will. Meaning, they are not obligated to hire you, and are more or less doing it as a favor. This also means they may fire you for any reason whatsoever. They may fire you because you took too much water from the cooler, it does not matter. That being said, they most certainly can fire you if you don't abide by their rules.

 

[divemedic]

Just about every civilian work place I can think of frowns on this. Their worried about ppl going postal. The company if the find you violating this can exercise disciplinary action as they see fit, whether its writing you up or firing you. They just cant press any kinda charges, since you werent breaking any law.

Again, that is not the case in states where there is a "guns in parking lots law."

In those states, an employer is specifically prohibited from taking action against an employee who has a weapon in his car.

Allow me to rephrase that- They can ALWAYS find a 'legitimate' reason to fire you.

I just figured everyone understood that a boss might not state the actual reason if it weren't legal, and might make one up that is more legit... sorry...

The just might. Many employers try this, and it frequently works. I am sure that many employers get away with firing people because of their race. However, it only takes a few lawsuits and the expenses associated with them, to make the practice rare. An excellent example of a few people exercising a right making an impact on everyone.

"Making up" a reason, and testifying to that false reason in court is a FELONY. Now it isn't that company policy that supersedes the law, but a crime has been committed.

For example: My employer has a policy prohibiting guns on property, in violation of state law. They somehow find out about it, and ask to search my vehicle for weapons. I refuse the search. A week later, I am fired for what is claimed to be an unrelated reason.

It is my burden to prove with a preponderance of evidence that the employer does not usually fire people for the stated reason, and that the stated reason is in fact a thinly disguised veil to violate my rights under state law. IF the employer did in fact lie, they are not only in violation of the parking lot law, but have committed perjury. Should I also be able to prove THAT, people are not only paying me money, but are going to JAIL.

 

[wishin]

For example: My employer has a policy prohibiting guns on property, in violation of state law. They somehow find out about it, and ask to search my vehicle for weapons. I refuse the search. A week later, I am fired for what is claimed to be an unrelated reason................Should I also be able to prove THAT, people are not only paying me money, but are going to JAIL.

You're absolutely correct, but you may want to find some case law where this has successfully happened in an employment at will State. It's highly improbable that the complaint would make to the courts. Your burden of proof being that you were fired FOR the employer's violation of the state law.

 

[divemedic]

My wife won a lawsuit against an employer for just that reason. As soon as they claimed the unrelated reason, her attorney then demanded the discipline records of the employer, to establish that the policy under which she was nominally fired was being uniformly enforced. There is no case law, because the employer did not appeal the trial court's ruling. However, the trial court had to pay her wages while she was unemployed, her legal fees, and the costs of her employment search, along with damages. My wife was out of work for 4 months.

She was a Medicare abuse whistleblower, but was fired several months later for refusing to stay after work and work overtime. The court saw right through that story, since no one had ever been fired for a first offense of that policy before.

Florida is an "at will" state, and there are many lawyers in my area that specialize in wrongful termination suits. Of course, since 790.251 (guns in parking lots) is such a new law, there is little case law under it, but there are reams of such case law for wrongful termination due to race, sex, religion, national origin, age, ADA, and sexual harassment.

 

[Webbj0219]

Then there are some places that wont fire you they just have ways of making you quit. Like cutting back your hours and making you do the toughest jobs, etc... I once overherd one of my former bosses talking about this. He said something like this," I dont like such and such employee, soo im going to do this and that and they should quit within a couple weeks". That method will probable be alot harder to take legal action against.

 

[divemedic]

Again, the law says:

(e) No public or private employer may terminate the employment of or otherwise discriminate against an employee,

so, if you are the only employee having their hours cut, changing job assignments to make you miserable, etc. there is a provable case. Lawsuits for discrimination on race have been proving just that for decades.

It amazes me how much the gun rights debate resembles all of the other discrimination cases. Discriminating against a person for exercising one right is the same as discriminating against them for another.

I once overherd one of my former bosses talking about this. He said something like this," I dont like such and such employee, soo im going to do this and that and they should quit within a couple weeks". That method will probable be alot harder to take legal action against.

All that is needed for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing. Did you even tell the employee that he was being targeted? Or did you allow an immoral and illegal travesty to continue unabated? If so, what makes you any better than the lawbreaking (criminal) boss?

 

[scythefwd]

A particular state's law may alter this, but generally I think you'll find that where state law allows the gun you cannot be criminally prosecuted for having it but your employer can fire you for violating established company policy.

Most, but not all, laws only tell you what you can or can't do on state or public land. Once you get to private land... you are at the mercy of the owner as long as what the owner is doing doesn't violate state or federal law.

In other words, if the employer owns that parking lot, they can fire you for carrying there. If the state owns that parking lot, you can legally tell them to pound sand, but phrasing it like that would probably get you fired.

 

[wishin]

Florida is an "at will" state, and there are many lawyers in my area that specialize in wrongful termination suits. Of course, since 790.251 (guns in parking lots) is such a new law, there is little case law under it, but there are reams of such case law for wrongful termination due to race, sex, religion, national origin, age, ADA, and sexual harassment.

Right again. It would surprise me if there wasn't.

 

[Dokkalfar]

divemedic, what part of the Florida law were you referring to in [30]? looking at that FL has:

(4) PROHIBITED ACTS.--No public or private employer may violate the constitutional rights of any customer, employee, or invitee as provided in paragraphs (a)-(e):

Which means the law specifically says a company CAN'T have a policy that violates those rights. So, the company won't be able to enforce any policy against you (per that law) without you being able to sue them for it and having a very good chance of winning.

 

[divemedic]

I'm not sure what you are asking about. There were 3 parts to that post.

1 Disney attempted to use the "licensed to handle explosives" exemption to continue their prohibition on guns, and actually terminated an employee for it. The terminated employee sued, and the case was settled out of court. Disney's gun policy has been changed as a result of that settlement.

2 Florida's guns in parking lots law supersedes company policy on guns in the parking lot.

3 The law specifically says that a company may not do something (in this case, violate an employee's rights)

 

[Dokkalfar]

Oh ok. I thought your third part was disagreeing with what I said (you quoted me there). Just wasn't sure what you meant by 'This one does'...agree or diagree with my statement

Now that we're on the same page we can all agree to agree

 

[RoostRider]

Actually, Disney settled that case quietly out of court

Link goes no where....

 

[Art Eatman]

Since the law is different in different states, the best thing to do is check your own state's laws on the subject and find out for yourself. There is no "One size fits all."