steel case 5.56mm ok in Wylde chambers?

[Ash]

Rifles aren't really designed to fire steel rounds per se. I think the real problem lies in the fact that steel is less elastic than brass. As a result, it may contract less after firing than brass does and so grip the walls of the chamber. In tapered rounds like 7.62x39 or 54r, the rounds eject easier because once you start movement, case-to-chamber friction is not a problem. The 5.56 round is straight-walled, which means it could grip the chamber and be harder to begin extraction, causing a jam. The US Military issued vast numbers of steel-cased 30 carbine, which is straight walled, to carbine manufactures for use in proof firing and testing m1 carbines. This ammo proved very satisfactory and is straight-walled, so there must also be design issues with the AR that make it less compatible than other designs.

 

[RugerOldArmy]

How consistent is neck tension on reloaded steel cases?

Do you worry about the life of your dies, or did you just get a cheaper set of dies for reloading steel?

 

[RainDodger]

I don't mean to disparage anyone's choice of ammo, but I simply don't get it. If you've got a nice rifle and you have to ask if someone thinks a particular type of cartridge can be fired safely... why would you even consider it? Shoot what the rifle is designed for in the first place and set your mind at ease. Especially this case... a Wylde chamber tells me you've got a rifle that's likely fairly nice... why mess with any questionable ammunition to save a little bit?

Yes, I know that steel case ammo doesn't cost as much. So save a little longer, or whatever. Even if you don't reload, the brass is worth something to someone else and you COULD make a little back on it if you wanted.

 

[benEzra]

A tremendous number of steel rounds were used in M1 Carbines stateside and those cases weren't tapered.

Maximum pressure of .30 Carbine is 40,000 psi or less, compared to 55,000 psi for .223/5.56mm, but .223 probably has a bit more taper than .30 Carbine also. I can't find a spec sheet for .30 Carbine to compare.

I do see that Wolf makes steel-case .30 Carbine, and it seems to work rather well.

http://smallarmsreview.com/display.article.cfm?idarticles=1733

there must also be design issues with the AR that make it less compatible than other designs

There is a huge variety of barrel lengths, spring weights, buffer mass, gas system lengths, chamber dimensions, gas port sizes, chamber finishes, etc. in the AR world. Since most AR's work just fine with steel case, I would hazard a guess that certain combinations of gas system length + gas port size + chamber dimensions + chamber finishes + buffer weights + lubrication preferences simply don't work with grippier, underpowered, dirtier steel-case ammo, rather than it being an issue common to all AR's. If you took an M1 carbine and changed the gas system, barrel length, spring weight, chamber dimensions, and reciprocating mass to the degree you can with an AR, you'd probably find a combination that would jam with steel case also.

My own AR is a 16" midlength with a chrome lined NATO chamber and a standard carbine buffer, and has never had a failure of any kind with steel case.

 

[jerkface11]

Steel cases ammo isn't questionable.

 

[Ash]

I don't get it. The AR is supposed to be the most reliable, best gun ever. Can it, should it, will it, fire steel-cased ammo? If not, what does that say about the AR?

I understand the notion that a Ferrari needs good gas. Is that the general gist here?

 

[benEzra]

I don't get it. The AR is supposed to be the most reliable, best gun ever. Can it, should it, will it, fire steel-cased ammo? If not, what does that say about the AR?

The AR in general runs fine with steel-cased ammo. The difference is that the AR is customizable enough, and made in enough different configurations, that it is possible to create a configuration that doesn't like underpowered ammo, or that doesn't like the extra grippiness of a steel case. Someone who throws in a heavier spring and H2 buffer into their AR because they think that's what all the cool kids run, or who tunes an AR to barely cycle with the hottest loads, is going to have failures to cycle if they try to shoot mild steel-case loads like Tula and Wolf.

In any firearm, quality ammo will be more accurate, and ammo with better quality control will be more consistent and more dependable. But a typical AR will run anything a 5.56x45mm AK will.

I understand the notion that a Ferrari needs good gas. Is that the general gist here?

I would say it's as if someone tuned their Civic to run only on 93+ octane fuel, then blamed it on the car when it ran poorly on no-name 87-octane from the local convenience store, whereas most Civics run fine on either.

 

[Slamfire]

The 223 round was not well designed, if fact, it was a wildcat. The guys who came up with the round wanted a certain velocity at a certain range. They did not spend time and money examining issues such as pressure curve, contraction or relaxation. It turns out the 223 is fairly straight tapered, which is bad, and portions of the brass case are still sticking to the chamber walls during extraction. This is very undesirable as breech friction will cause failures to extract. Ideally, the case will be fully relaxed off the chamber walls during unlock and there will not be any resistance between case and chamber during the residual blowback period. If you look at good case design, the Russian 7.62 X 39 and the recent Chinese service cartridge, both have more case taper than the 5.56 Nato and both were designed with steel as a case material. Both have nice thick rims, which is also important for machine gun rounds.



The Russians took into account the material characteristics of steel as a case material, examining the expansion and contraction, along with the production technology, aiding the excellent function design of SKS's and AK47's. As such, these steel rounds are outstanding in feed and extraction. The 5.56 was created without spending any time or effort on alternatives, alternate materials, anything. As such, given the fact the case shape is not optimum for brass, it most certainly is not optimal for steel.

To reduce breech friction, I will put drops of oil on the top steel cartridges in my magazine, or I will put drops of oil on steel cartridges in my hand and roll them around. Oil will reduce the friction between case and chamber and that will improve extraction reliability.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

It is typical that when we encounter a stuck case in an AR rifle, it is always a steel case.

Stuck steel cases in an AR almost always happen when fired from a barrel with a .223 chamber instead of 5.56. Years ago some AR manufacturers installed barrels that were marked 5.56 but were in fact chambered for .223. Stuck cases happen on these guns when the increased pressure encountered when firing 5.56 in a .223 chamber allows carbon to blow past the case neck and shoulder before the steel case swells enough to seal against the chamber wall. As the carbon deposits increase it embeds in the polymer coating until a case gets stuck in the chamber.

 

[socalbeachbum]

My MP15OR digests anything and is accurate too, but it does depend on which magazine I'm feeding from. My Stag Arms 24" Varmint barrel does not like the steel cased ammo. . My Spikes Tactical AR-15 pistol digests anything.

My purchases did not come with any instructions, no comment about steel cased ammo and so, I bought some. Won't do it again, and won't be using it. Brass cased ammo is the way to go. The problem seems to be one of friction, the steel cases don't feed up and into the chamber properly. They stick on the lips of the magazine I believe. Once chambered, the steel rounds seem to have no problem. It is a failure to feed problem I'm seeing here.

I've even stoned and polished the feed lips on mags with no real improvement in feeding.

 

[Hacker15E]

How consistent is neck tension on reloaded steel cases?

Do you worry about the life of your dies, or did you just get a cheaper set of dies for reloading steel?

I have yet to see any data at all regarding how long a set of dies used to resize exclusively brass cases takes to wear out, or any data on what the lifespan of a set of dies used to resize steel cases is.

I personally am using the same set of circa-1970s RCBS small base .223 dies that I've always used, and don't see any noticeable change in size/shape of any of the resized cases over time since starting to resize steel cases.

So far as I'm concerned, the idea that there is increased wear is a theory that has yet to be supported with any evidence.