Step Father is looking at getting a firearm....

[itgoesboom]

Well, I should say another firearm, but you have to discount the ones he already has.

Recently, the town where my family lives has had a rash of burgleries and such. Seems that the low lifes have finally figured out that if they move out of the major cities, and hit the sleeping bedroom communities, they might walk away with more $$$.

Now my stepfather wants to be able to protect the rest of the family that still lives down there, and would like to pick up a firearm.

He just gave his brother back the SxS 12ga that he has been holding on to for a long time (I learned on that shotgun years ago). That leaves him with his grandmothers .25acp that hardly ever works, or a .22lr rifle that almost never works.

So this weekend he started asking me advice about what to get.

He wants a pistol (he asked about a .45acp), but I am concerned because I know that he won't do the training that will allow him to be proficient and I know that it is harder to score quality hits with a pistol than a carbine/shotgun. I also think that he will be less likely to have a ND with a carbine/shotgun.

I think that he needs a pistol, but that for his HD needs, he should have a lightweight carbine or a shotgun.

Next month he is coming to visit (has to see his granddaughter), and will get to try a few different firearms that I own. I have my work cut out for me though, since he has solidly held on to certain myths (example: Doesn't matter where you hit a person with a .45, it will put them down )

Do you think I should just help him find what he was thinking of, or actually direct him in the direction of a carbine/shotgun?

I.G.B.

 

[Tokugawa]

S+W model 10, 4" .38special. simple and reliable.

 

[Mulliga]

Pistol, carbine, shotgun - if he doesn't practice with it, he'll be equally ineffective with all of them. How much firearms experience does he have? Can he get to a range at least once a month?

 

[Zundfolge]

If he's dangerous with a pistol he'll be dangerous with a shottie or carbine.


If he's got his heart set on a .45acp (regardless of his reasons...even if they are silly if it makes him more confident that will help in a crisis situation) then I'd recommend either a revolver or a quality DA semi auto (like a CZ97) ... if you're concerned about his level of training then stay away from 1911s.

What kind of budget are you looking at?

 

[Mooseman]

+1 on need to practice. He doesn't happen to like dogs does he? They're a great deterrent.

 

[Preacherman]

It's much easier for a novice shooter to learn to shoot a long gun well than to shoot a handgun well. In 50-100 rounds, a novice can master the basic operation and defensive use of a pump-action shotgun, or lever-action carbine, or something like a Hi-Point or Kel-Tec handgun-caliber carbine. It will take ten times as much ammo (and time) to master even a simple handgun to the point where repeated, accurate hits can be obtained.

My suggestion would be to start him out on a handgun-caliber carbine, which he can quickly master. Thereafter, move him up to a shotgun or something delivering more punch. He can master the handgun more slowly, as he has time (and motivation) to do so.

 

[mnrivrat]

From my perspective I would try to give him what he wants. Certainly nothing the matter with a .45 ACP handgun for self defense and while he may not start out a crack shot or never achieve being a crack shot, there is no reason to believe he can't learn to handle & shoot one like anybody else. ( and 15 to 20 foot inside the house shooting distances don't call for a person to be a great shot )

The same thing goes for ergonomics and whatever gun he feels comfortable with will be the one he may put some time into getting proficeint with .

Offering alternatives is OK , but us old guys can get cranky when we think our opinions are being treated with less respect than due .

 

[gunsmith]

how about a .45 carbine?

doesn't Marlin make one?

 

[hso]

I think you should take him to a range where he can try all three and let him see for himself is he can hit the side of a barn with a full size handgun, short shotgun or carbine. Whatever he performs the best with is what he should get. You could spoon feed him a little mumbo jumbo about "being a natural" so that his ego gets involved. If it turns out he is a natural with a .45 then he's good to go.

If you want to focus him on one of the three then there are plenty of arguments why one is better than the other. Knockdown and lethality of shotguns at house ranges, followup shots with 5.56 or .30 cal carbines, portabiltiy of pistols. If you want to push him away from one or the other heavy recoil of the shotgun and you still have to aim at house ranges, wall penetration of carbines, poor aiming chararcteristics of handguns.

Regardless, it would be good to find out what he can actually hit with before making a decision.

 

[V4Vendetta]

+1 to HSO.

If a shotgun works best, get a 870 pump or 500 or 590 special purpose pump.

I personally, would go with a shotgun. Powerful, good distance depending ammo.

 

[ball3006]

If he is older than me,

look at a 20 ga shotgun. A bit lighter and less recoil but enough to get the job done.......Check out a Rossi lever carbine, clone of '92 Win, in 357 mag. He can practice with 38 special that the S&W mod 10, listed above, which is a great choice for someone like this......chris3

 

[itgoesboom]

It's much easier for a novice shooter to learn to shoot a long gun well than to shoot a handgun well. In 50-100 rounds, a novice can master the basic operation and defensive use of a pump-action shotgun, or lever-action carbine, or something like a Hi-Point or Kel-Tec handgun-caliber carbine. It will take ten times as much ammo (and time) to master even a simple handgun to the point where repeated, accurate hits can be obtained.

Preacherman has explained some of the exact reasons why I would prefer he start out with a carbine/shotgun, and why I am trying to point him in that direction.

While practice is necessary, and should be a given, I know that my stepfather will most likely not devote the time and energy necessary to safe and effective handling of a handgun for emergency use within the house.

However, I feel that he would be able to devote the necessary time and energy to learn how to properly and safely use a carbine/shotgun for home defense.

To answer other questions posted so far:

-He won't get a dog, and if they ever got a dog, it most likely would be a useless breed.

-He has minimal amount of firearm experience. He doesn't shoot often, and he doesn't care for his firearms at all. I learned as a child that if the shotgun was going to ever be cleaned, I would have to be the one to do it.

-He can afford quality, but wants to go as cheap as possible, just because thats the way he works.

One other wrinkle is that he lives in California.

I think the idea of a lever action carbine is a good one, and I still like the idea of a shotgun.

I think I might take him to the range, let him shoot with a psuedo-carbine (SKS, closest I got), a pistol (XD9c) and my mossberg 500.

I will see what he hits fastest and most accurate with, and direct him towards whatever catagory that is.

Thanks everyone.

I.G.B.

 

[BozemanMT]

Shottie
870 Express are under 300 bucks (even in CA)
as Preacherman says, 50 rounds and he'll get it.
plus you can keep it cruiser ready (empty chamber, cocked, pull the triger, all you do now is rack it (the half pull) and it's ready to fly)

if he really wants a pistol, get a revolver.
simple, straightforward, always goes bang.

but I still say shottie.

 

[pauli]

if he's comfortable with the sxs you mentioned, i'd suggest he might want to get one (nominally) just like it.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

If they have minimal experience and aren't willing to train, a carbine is probably the most effective. At least when I take new shooters out and let them shoot handguns, rifle, and shotguns they always score the best hits in the least amount of time with a carbine.

There are also enough models out there to give you a wide range of options. In California, I wouldn't rule out a lever-action - they are short and easy to handle and you have a lot of options in both pistol and rifle calibers without breaking the bank.

 

[LOW2000]

We can't get SKS's here in Cali, they are evil so we are told by our omnicient politicians.

+1 for the mossberg. We have a sporting goods chain called Big5 out here, they have them on sale every other month or so. They have either the 8-shot 20" or the 5-shot deal with 2 barrels 18.5" and 28" for about $220+$25 DROS. If hes getting a pistol, hes going to drop at least $500 for something reliable enough for home defense.

Also, to get a handgun, you need to take and pass a handgun safety course and while thats not a bad thing, with the shotty you can just walk in, pay for it and 10 days later walk out with it.

 

[itgoesboom]

We can't get SKS's here in Cali, they are evil so we are told by our omnicient politicians.

+1 for the mossberg. We have a sporting goods chain called Big5 out here, they have them on sale every other month or so. They have either the 8-shot 20" or the 5-shot deal with 2 barrels 18.5" and 28" for about $220+$25 DROS. If hes getting a pistol, hes going to drop at least $500 for something reliable enough for home defense.

Also, to get a handgun, you need to take and pass a handgun safety course and while thats not a bad thing, with the shotty you can just walk in, pay for it and 10 days later walk out with it.

I actually bought my mossberg 500 out at big 5 years ago, probably my first firearm purchase.

As for the SKS, you actually can buy them in California. The Yugo is legal as long as they remove the grenade launcher (bayonett too, maybe?). But you can get them there. Doesn't matter, that's not what I want him to get, but that is the closest I have to a carbine for him to try out.

I.G.B.

 

[LOW2000]

AFAIK, the SKS is an assault rifle per CA law. There was a big fiasco a few years back with the CA DOJ allowing people to register them after the legislated cut-off date so they had to buy back all of those that were after the date.

 

[itgoesboom]

AFAIK, the SKS is an assault rifle per CA law. There was a big fiasco a few years back with the CA DOJ allowing people to register them after the legislated cut-off date so they had to buy back all of those that were after the date.

The Yugos that are currently being imported are legal to sell and buy within California, as long as it doesn't have the grenade launcher. Might also need to have the bayonett removed, but I am not sure about that.

But you can buy them in California legally.

I *think* there is some issues with purchasing Chinese made SKS within California, but I am not sure. Otherwise, as long as it has only the standard 10 round magazine, it is legal. The big fiasco years ago, I believe was in refrence to people with detachable mags on their SKS rifles, which is a no-no.

Nobody ever said the gun laws make any sense.

I.G.B.

 

[LOW2000]

Bayonet lug isn't an AW item in CA. I havn't done much research in the whole SKS deal since i've been working on getting stripped AR receivers and getting people to try to sign the CA RKBA petition.

 

[goalie]

Hi Point carbine in 9mm.

 

[Soybomb]

First off take him to shoot and hold a bunch and let him decide on what he wants. Even if it isn't the "best" gun for him, if he likes it he may be more likely to practice with it. I think if someone isn't an "enthusiast" and just wants it for protection they're often confused or forget all about decocking this, turning the safety off that, racking this, etc. If I hand my father my p226 he looks at me bewildered, a DA revolver though...easy to learn and remember. If he likes it. Maybe a long barrel .45 revolver?