frustrated2
Member
stevens /savage 22 410 over under. Selector mode button screw came out & selector button came off. I still have button & screw but can not get it go together like it should, therefore can't put screw back in to tighten it. Help+
stevens / savage 22 410
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beag_nut
Member
If it's an older model, there won't be any transfer bar (wish I had kept mine, sigh).
Perhaps we have different definitions of "older model" or "transfer bar" I'm looking at a 22/410 with the Tennite stock and the side button and the button definitely is screwed onto what I call a transfer bar - a bar that moves up and down behind the firing pins. The bar has a circular protrusion that is struck by the hammer and transfers the blow to whichever firing pin it happens to be behind.
"Newer" models have the selector switch on the hammer.
beag_nut
Member
There was no such "transfer bar" between the hammer and pin on the older Savage 24's. I remember mine most vividly, because it was my first squirrel-hunting gun. I was taught how to dismantle, clean, and reassemble it, as part of my learning curve. Plus, they all (back then) had wood stocks. This is about 60 years ago, by the way. Nowadays whenever I enter a gun shop I keep my eye out for one of those oldies. Not that any of this helps your quest for info about the newer models.
entropy
Member
Stevens's Post WWII had tenite stocks. That "transfer bar" is the selector itself, you might have to align it with a slave pin of some sort.
I've had quite a few 22/410s and 24s and there are an amazing number of variations. Different ways of opening the action, different stocks, different everything. But so far I've only seen two ways of selecting which barrel fires, the "older" side button / transfer bar and the "newer" hammer switch. If I understand your post correctly, you're saying there was another method used before the side button / transfer bar. How did your gun make the selection?
Sunray
Member
Rummage around here. The Marshall Williams Savage/Stevens 22/410 link on the 24 Links page is dead.
http://savage24.com/
http://savage24.com/
beag_nut
Member
As previously noted by others, the selector button was not what we today regard/define as a transfer bar. If it was, a fair number of succeeding patents would have been nullified.
OK, I figured it must be some terminology issue. So there are two methods, the hammer selector and the side button / whatever-it's-called sliding bar that transfers the hammer blow to a firing pin thingy. So what would you call it then and what's your definition of a transfer bar?
beag_nut
Member
A transfer bar does not operate until the trigger is pressed, by a finger. If no finger is on the trigger, no force is applied to the firing pin. Most, if not all, transfer bars move vertically. That's even on a non-handgun, like a Henry Big Boy. If the hammer falls, while no pressure is on the trigger, no force is applied to the firing pin. Think of the transfer bar as a moving member, not as a stationary member. Thus, non of the early Savage 24's (like my past one) had a transfer bar. They had a selector, which would have allowed the force of the hammer to hit the firing pin, even if no finger was on the trigger. OK?
entropy
Member
It is called the selector in all of the Numrich schematics of the various model that have it, and coincidentally, that is it's function also.
Scooter22
Member
Interesting stubborn back and forth on terminology. Maybe the highlighted line should read "They had a selector, which would have transfered the force of the hammer to hit the firing pin." Thats what it did right? Yeah that sounds correct for both sides.
entropy
Member
Gun parts have specific names; a gun design may have both a selector and a transfer bar, what then? As I have mentioned in other threads, Numrich's schematics are handy references, as are the Gun Digest Disassembly/reassembly series books. It would behoove most gun owners to at least study the schematics of the guns they own and become familiar with the terminology. If you think civilian parts nomenclature is not important, try the military supply system! Order a barrel for an M60, you might get a crate about 20 feet long......
beag_nut
Member
A transfer bar is not a selector, especially regarding several importantly-guarded patents, which are worth quite a bit of money to their owners. The "stubborn back and forth on terminology" is what ensures a whole population of patent attorneys their income. If we might not agree with a legal definition, that's irrelevant. Plus, the different terms help to describe different functions, which is the subject in question.
Scooter22
Member
I understand the difference. It's just the way the point was argued. Yes it's a selector but it does transfer the hammer strike to the FP. Instead it became a legal defintion of transfer bar vs selector. But both were right because either does the same thing in different ways. The Transfer bar is more safety oriented than a selector because it has to move into place before the gun can be fired. But both do the same thing in the end.
entropy
Member
Only on these guns. I know of no other type that it works on; maybe some drilling types; haven't had enough of them apart to find out.
The differentiation in nomenclature is warranted. In this case the selector also acts as a transfer bar of sorts, as it is the most efficient method of barrel selection. But transfer bars do not act as selectors, indeed they are a separate system. A selector, as in this case, may act as a transfer bar, but the reverse is never true, AFAIK.
Scooter22
Member
True and I agree. I read this thread and commented as a "devils advocate. Because in this case, even though there is not a true "transfer bar" the selector did both. I'm done.
entropy
Member
I'm new to this forum but have used it for good info for years, but not new to guns. I have a 1949 savage 22-410 I think. It has a 1A in part of a circle on the 410 part of the barrel on the left side. no serial number or patent markings. a nice small wrist walnut stock, no screws on the bottom of the forearm and a 'common' plastic butt pad not the one with the circle plug in the center like the replacement walnut stocks have. It also has a savage model 24 on the right side, and a very tiny 24E on the left side below the hammer pin in the corner of the receiver.
At first it looked like a small rust pit but with a magnifier it shows up and it could be a H instead of E. Anyway the selector button does not have a screw in the center so I don't know if it has been repaired with a solid button or not. It
does say savage with savage arms Chicopee Falls, Mass on the left side. Everything works ok. I have another 22-410 that appears to have been refinished and the selector/actuator part that moves up and down between the hammer and pins is broke. This gun says stevens on the barrels and only a patent with number on the lower right side of the receiver. Unfortunately the gun was not taken care of and has a lot of light surface rust pitting on a nice reblued barrel. The receiver has some kind of copper looking bluing or maybe electropplating but also has the light rust pitting. This gun has had the tenite stock and fore end replaced with walnut that has bigger proportions especially in the wrist. I expect the wood is thicker because the walnut stocks that were thinner probably all cracked with the heavy 410 loadings. The one I have has the original wood and had two pretty good cracks that have been repaired. The other one with the thicker wood also has several cracks but I think they were caused by a problem with the hammer not dropping all the way and binding the release lever to break the gun open to load. The only way to open the gun is with the hammer cocked. The trigger guard is in a plastic bag with the broke firing pin actuator. The actuator seems to have a pretty worn stud that must fit into the button on the inside. The actuator is also broke where it is twisted at a right angle to transition to the part that has the raised part to hit the firing pin. I don't see a replacement part with a stud made in it, only ones with a hole for the screw so I guess It will need a whole kit to get fixed. I looks like I will need to clamp the receiver in my mill vice and use a round shaft to press the hammer spring cup down out of it's recess in the receiver to get the spring out, the rest looks easy to get apart. Unfortunately it looks like the broke part is one of the first parts to go back in place. I might be able to drive the hammer pin over just far enough to get the button detent out to replace the button with the screw type. T tell the truth the owner probably won't want to spend the money to fix it. I told him I would repair the stock for free and put it back on the receiver for free and that took too long. I also 0000 steel wooled the surface rust off with clr and coated it with a light coat of oil and it looks pretty good but the larger pits are visible in the finish. It also is missing the front sight and the rear sight is loose in the dovetail, which is more work. The front sight and screw will be hard to find in the original steel I'm thinking. I actually could probably weld the pin actuator back together but the worn stud is so very small it would be hard to build back up and would take a lot of time reworking. The only way this project could be finished is if the owner wanted it put back in working order but this is a inheritance to a non firearms owner so it will just lay around till it goes to another owner probably. I only got this project through casual conversation with one of my wifes close friends relative when I went to pick my wife up at her house. I would like to have the gun but not at a expensive price and the owner seems to want to keep it for sentimental value.
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