Sticky extraction... Why?

[goon]

Here is the deal. I did have some trouble with extraction when I first got the gun (S&W M-28), but I polished the chambers with emery cloth and the problem seemed to go away. Tonight I had to polish the chambers again. I tried a handful of handloads and the first cylinder full were most disagreeable. The next cylinder full came out OK, as did the cylinder full of factory loads I tried for comparison.
My handloads were very mild so there is no way they were causing the sticking.
Is it possible that a little bit of corrosion could have build up in the gun in the last two weeks?
I have had revolvers before, but this has never happened to me.
I will admit that I was less than perfect with them several times, even skipping cleanings because I knew that I was just gonna get it dirty again next week anyway.
Are the tolerances on my M-28 that tight?

 

[Standing Wolf]

Not all model 28 cylinder bores or chambers are of identical dimensions, nor are all equally smooth. Extractor stars and rods can be difficult to operate if they're slightly out of alignment. I've seen hot rod .357 magnum loads whose fired cases were very difficult to extract, yet others that positively fell out of the cylinder. I've never encountered a light load extraction problem, but have heard they can be as difficult sometimes as hot rod loads.

It might be worth your while to measure freshly sized brass, as well as finished hand-loaded rounds. If you're over-crimping, you can easily bulge cartridges just enough to make extraction—or insertion, for that matter—difficult.

If you've polished cylinder bores, you'll want to be very sure to leave them well oiled during storage: bluing is sometimes very shallow, and if you go through it to bare metal, you'll likely end up with corrosion problems.

 

[Jim March]

Hrrrmmmm.

Are you having any sticking with factory loads?

Some say it's possible to get "light handloads" that turn out to have excessive pressure due to being too LIGHT. It's weird, but per this theory if there's too low a powder amount in the case you get "detonation" instead of "burn", somewhat like automotive ping if you run too lean. See also:

http://www.reloadammo.com/liteload.htm

Now, there's also a lot of doubters; some are quite vocal in this thread:

http://talk.shooters.com/room_47/7464.cfm

I'm wondering if your handloads might be doing enough detonation to explain the sticking (raised pressure), but not blowing the gun up because it's pretty strong? That's assuming "light-load detonation" even exists, or if it can happen in a 357. I have no personal evidence either way, I've been watching the debate with interest however.

 

[goon]

Load is 7 grains of Unique and a 158 grain Speer JSP.
It is slightly longer than the recommended OAL, but still in the crimp groove. I don't think that the crimp is excessive but I will try backing it off a little. The handloads were using Remington Nickel-plated brass.
I am thinking that it may be corrosion. For some reason, I was thinking that oiling the chambers was a no-no, but I guess I was thinking of something else. I will keep a light coat of oil in it and see if that helps.
Is it safe to shoot it with a little oil in the chambers? I ask because I do carry the gun in the woods quite often, and I would like to keep it oiled because there is a chance that it will get wet or damp at some point.
Thanks.

BTW- I did have extraction trouble with factory loads when I first got the gun, but not tonight. They were Federal 158GR JSP.

 

[Hutch]

Goon, that doesn't seem to be tooo light a load. Are you using Magnum cases or Specials? Another thing, with loads that really are light, there's not enough pressure built up to expand the brass to seal the chamber; no "case mouth obturation", to use the fancy term. Hot gas leaks backwards toward the rim. You can tell this is happening if you see dark streaks on the cases. If it IS happening, it might case some crud (Unique is very dirty) to build up in the chambers.

Are you having any difficulty in seating the ammo fully into the chambers?

 

[goon]

It is 357 Mag brass. There are no burn marks on the brass. Unique is kind of dirty, but even if I were using black powder, I shouldn't have trouble after the first six rounds.
The load is almost the minumum according to my Speer No. 17 manual. I don't think it is too light. It is light compared to a factory round, but the gun still jumps a little bit. I think it is a chamber thing. I was messing around with the gun tonight and I found that the gun may be a little out of time.
I really hope my dream .357 isn't coming apart at the seams.

 

[goon]

Yes, the ejector rod moves smoothly. It also does this thing.
I will try to explain.
I loaded the cylinders with empties last night in an attempt to see what was wrong. It accepted five just fine, but when I went to put the sixth round in, the rim got caught without going the whole way down into the chamfer. It just sort of sat there on top of the extractor. It took the sixth round but only with considerable effort.
"What the hell," I said.
I tried it a few more times. Sometimes it did it, other times it didn't. This one didn't seem like the chambers, it seemed like something with the extractor, or possilbly the ammo.
And on top of this, the gun is definitely out of time. It is only out on three chambers, and it will lock up when you cock the hammer briskly. But if you cock it slowly the hammer comes to full cock before the cylinder locks up. I have only shout about a box of ammo through it, and it has only been a couple of weeks since I bought it, so back to the shop it is going. If they value the thousands of dollars I have spent and will spend in the future, they will fix it or give me a deal on another gun.
Why in the hell does this always happen to me?

 

[.41Dude]

Just found this site.

Had a problem with sticky extraction on a Model 57.

I cleaned it till the cows came home, no luck.

Took the gun outside to look thru the cylinder in bright sunlight.

At the front of the cylinder in each chamber was a thin line of

what looked like dirt, it was lead. Took a lewis lead remover to it.

There wasn't much in each cylinder, just enough to stick the

extraction. I assume the mouth of each fired cartidge case would

open up just enough to wedge on the lead residue.

Hope this helps.

 

[goon]

That might help.
After I get it back I will check and see about that.
It got sent back to the factory yesterday to take care of a timing problem. The store is picking up the bill.
Good people, I guess.
Hell, maybe they will check into that too.

 

[WebHobbit]

That store aint paying for shipping. Now a days S&W just gives you a FedEX account number to use and THEY pay for shipping on warranty work.

All the store did was fill out the form and possibly make a 1-800 call or simply email: [email protected]

You could have done all that yourself. That's what I did on my 640.

I'm just about at the point where I'm gonna swear off ALL S&W in favor of Rugers. The SP/GP designs are SOOO much more modern as far as the grip stud and all.....but that is another thread.

 

[Old Fuff]

Goon:

Be sure the dealer mentions the cartridge-extraction problem when he contacts S&W. Otherwise they may only correct the timing.