Strange Knocks at the Door.

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Wow, this thread has activated a nerve. I'll bet you're feeling a little beat upon. Admittedly, your steps up to this point were a little slap-shod. But you can always make ammends for past errors.
This does sound like a probe to me, but even if it is not, it has brought to light some glaring deficiencies in you security plan that have to be corrected for "the next time". As a former badge wearer, here are my thoughts.
1/ Report immediately. Call the local PD and get some paper started on this. You can use the posts here to jog your memory. It doesn't matter if you got only part of a license plate, you've got a partial descrption of the car and that will narrow it down.
Also, contact the company he is "working" for and tell them you do not appreciate his methods or his demeanor. Be very specific and inform them that he is not welcome on your property.
2/ Ditto's on the dog, My Scottish Terrier does not look like much, But he's a good boy, and he puts up a racket if anyone ever dares to use "his" sidewalk. (He's also H#ll on baby bunnies). Scotties have hair, not fur so they don't shed, and there is no danderuff, so if alergies are an issue, a Scottie will solve them. He loves the children and my wife - he has been known to place himself between them and someone he doesn't know - happily this was the neighbors. Your kids will adore him, and they'll never know why he is really there. I'd get the pup ASAP
3/ Harden the target. Make sure all the windows are locked, doors too. Replace the latch and hinge screws with 3" steel screws, a Chicago lock, a 2x4 set in notches (scraps of 2x4 nailed at a point on the door and on the floor) makes a door very hard to kick in (trust me on that). Some sort of gate, with "no tresspassing" signs is your first line of defense. After that a few "Danger, dog" signs are nice. And you can purchase "Guardian home invasion alarm" signs without buying the system. Don't go for "Tresspassers will be shot, surviors shot again", a "good" lawyer will claim that is pre-meditiation. I like the camera idea, too.
Look at your house like a perp. Are there large bushes by the doors for cover? What about at the corners, where "He can see you, but you can't see him"? Where are the phone lines? Can they be cut? (If you don't have a cell-phone, now is the time to surprise the wife - this evening). Walk the woods around your home, watch how the windows come into view, look for blind spots. From the road to your door, how long can you keep a car in view/spot a car as it comes up. This is the window you need to maximize, either with camera's, or by doing some logging to get a clear view.
4/ guns ; well, as much as I believe in RKBA this is sort of your last line of defense. Sounds like you are lightly, but adequately armed for most things. Personally, I'd have a few other items close to hand, a shotgun leaps to mind, but if this is the level you are comfortable with, ok. I would make a point of having some sort of holster about for the handgun. If cash is tight, a $2 fanny pack will work well enought to tote it, the cell phone and a flashlight.
5/ Training. Having all responsible members of the family adequately trained in the use of firearms is not just a good idea, it is a responsibility. But this is not the end of it. Training also includes everyone. Where is your safe room in the house? If everyone does not know, tonight is the time to figure that out. What is the plan when "someone", maybe your book selling pal, goes "Bump in the night"? Figure that out immediately, everyone should know their roles. When the window breaks, that is not the time for both you and the wife to be fingering the AR-15.

Anyway, take a few days off, get your gate up and get the puppy used to running around on your place. If "Skippy" comes back with his magazines, get into his face and tell him he is not welcome here. If you never see or hear from him again, good riddance, but the next "knock" on the door will just be the pooch's tail as he chews on his favorite rawhide toy.

Good luck, stay safe.
 
I also live in the sticks, in rural Wyoming. My driveway/road is .75 mi. long. I have dogs for an early warning system, however dogs can be silenced or rendered ineffective. Things I consider as to your situation as we (my family) have war gamed a similar situation.
- Is there a closer neighbor or source of help from the roadway/highway than you (that say someone with a flat or car trouble would normally go to)
- Any strange sightings or happenings within the last year (did you report suspicious activity resulting in an arrest or police activity against someone.
- Any reason to believe you may be targeted for possessions or valuables.
- insults or threats against you or your family.
You might also make your family aware that guns are not the only weapons to use in a hostile/threat situation. Seemingly innocent items kept in reach such as large kitchen knives, irritants in jars (open but not readily accessible by small children, etc; The idea is to balance paranoia with a common sense militant mindset so you don't become complacent - a victim. Remember - the very reason that country living is attractive also makes it potentially attractive to the criminal mindset. Your mind is you greatest weapon.
 
Guys,

I know a couple people have touched on the subject, but it honestly appears sounds legit. Let me explain.

I'm a college student currently and was recruited to work for Southwestern a year ago. I declined to do it, but still went through the training seminar. From the start, the whole company is based on pressure. When I was asked to work for them, they said I could come to the meeting and see what the company is about and could leave any time if I wasn't interested. Of course, when I went to leave, they put me on the spot and wanted a really in-depth answer as to why I wasn't interested.

As for the sales pitch, they try to get into your home because they want you to "feel more comfortable" and it makes it easier for them to make a sale because you are "at ease". Their speil itself is kind of long and "informative" in the hopes that it will coax the customer into purchasing.

The knocking and leaving quickly is because you only get paid on commission and there are a lot of houses to stop at. They grab the ones that answer right away and keep moving hoping to grab as many people as possible in a short period of time. Molon Labe's house did not have anyone answer in the past, therefore they kept coming back hoping to find someone home.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for being safe and careful. I just wanted to add my relatively-educated opinion to the discussion.
 
The knocking and leaving quickly is because you only get paid on commission and there are a lot of houses to stop at. They grab the ones that answer right away and keep moving hoping to grab as many people as possible in a short period of time. Molon Labe's house did not have anyone answer in the past, therefore they kept coming back hoping to find someone home.
Click to expand...

I'm curious why none of his neighbours reported ever seeing this individual then. If you're blanketing a sales territory (I did a little door to door myself when I was young) with repeat calls to meet/greet/sell the householder, how comes none of his neighbours had this guy on their radar yet?

I find the odds of everyone (OP & neighbours) always being absent when this guy comes to call pretty slim if he actually is running his route multiple times.

Also, I've worked urban and rural territories. Pretty much any house you can't get to easily (.2 miles of drive in the woods counts for this I think) gets a single call, then you move on to denser turf, it's just not effective use of your time to keep driving out to the boonies to see one house unless you're selling something specific to that sort of property with a higher value commission than a magazine sub.

If repeat calling and being very pushy is Southwesterns sales technique, they're lucky they haven't had incidents. I know if my wife and kid were out in the middle of nowhere and this guy kept coming around, he'd have some damn hard questions to answer as to his repeated trespassing. Then again, I've lived in cities all my life and have a fair degree of suspicion and a moderately hostile attitude when it comes to unexpected callers.
 
ML.... get the local county mounties involved ASAP... This needs to be documented and they can possibly BOLO for this guys car and maybe start a short "investigation"

If you need/want help doing a few security upgrades to your place let "us" know, ok.... it is not difficult, especially with todays modern technology.

The wife has even offered up the use of "Freedom" our Dobie... Think about it..
 
I have also done door-to-door, and it's not fun. But you also have to hustle. The whole point is to not wait at the door and knock lightly, you want them to answer and buy the product. I would ring the bell, wait, ring again, and if nothing I would leave. No sense waiting at the door when the neighbor might buy, it's a numbers game. Because of this a few things stick out as others have also noticed.

1. "knock and run" just does not happen.

2. He didn't go to the neighbors? If I didn't get anyone the first time I am sure not going back up that driveway.

3. Pushing for personal information: It's a good way to drum up additional business, find out extra needs, maybe see if friends or family could use some product. It also might not be good.

4. Four trips! Like I said before there is no reason for him to hit up your place four times without going to the neighbors.



We live on a private drive, about 1/2 mile long. We do have a few neighbors within about 200 yards so it is somewhat safe. Aside from the neighbors, and people turning around (I guess the "no outlet" sign isn't clear anough) we have had ONE unexpected visitor in the 10 years we have been here. Jehova's whitness and we had a nice conversation even though I am an Atheist.
 
Not only did this clown not go to the neighbors, but he DIDN'T GO TO THE NEIGHBORS ON THE STREET, and HE THEN TRAVELED DOWN A LONG DRIVEWAY FOUR TIMES. That is more than suspicious.
 
Just to let you know...some "carpet cleaners" did this exact same thing to my parents house 10 years or so ago before they robbed it. Luckily enough my dad had plates and a good description of each person that came up. So...take it with a grain of salt.
 
I agree that casing does sound like the most plausible thing going on here. However, knocking and leaving quickly doesn't seem an effective way to case either. Just like a salesman, if you knock and leave right away there is no way for you to figure out if anyone is actually there. Perhaps someone else is sitting in the bushes/trees watching the door?
 
Lucas may have hit the nail on the head. The OP mentioned that there is a forest on their property. Has the OP thought about maybe a quick scan through the area to look for signs of activity in there?

On counterpoint, however, a quick knock and a walk-away would tell you whether or not there were loud dogs, or if someone would respond immediately.

Now that I think about it, did guy leave the engine running when he talked to the OP? Seems like he might have when he knocked and ran each time before. Otherwise his wife should have heard a car starting. A running engine would also be suspicious.
 
Actually, I thought about the "hiding in the wood" thing for a minute but dismissed it. That does make a lot of sense, and if it were me I might consider sending a few rounds (safely) into the woods just to see if anyone jumps up. You can always just say you were shooting at a groundhog or something.
 
I would think that the knock-and-run thing was to see what the response would be (ie. do you open the door?). The guy likely had an accomplice watching the door (perhaps from, say, the woods?) to see if it opened after the knock-n-run. He'd have to do it a few times because who knows, maybe you don't wake up that early, maybe nobody is home at that time, etc. Each knock was a data-gathering move.

Get training for you and your wife ASAP. The guy knows now when you'll be home and when it's likely nobody will be home, and when you wife will be home alone!
 
Is it just me or does this thread raise anyone else's BS-O-Meter?

I'd expect most people to have called the police after the 2nd or third knock-and-split. Why did Molon open the door? That's like voluntarily throwing your shield on the ground, all while you don't have your sword, no less. Talk about stacking the deck against your favor. All the conversation Molon needed to have w/ the suspect could've been done through the door. "What do you want?" "Selling magazine subs..." "Not interested, don't come back." Imagine someone asking you where you work, through the door. Wouldn't happen. People are also telling Molon to get his wife a holster.

"He caught me off guard. I had my sweat pants on, so I couldn't stick my 9 mm in the small of my back as I had planned to do tomorrow morning." What are you doing sticking a handgun in your waistband like a 'banger? Molon could answer the door w/ a rifle in-hand and a backup pistol in a proper strong-side-holster. It's not hard to have these things ready, especially when you're at home, you know there's a situation, and you're expecting a return visit where you wont have much time to make contact. If Molon never opens the door, the suspect on the other side would never know he was armed, either. If the guy started kicking the door in, he wouldn't stand a chance.

Too many of the events in this thread are so counter to common (THR) sense that the entire story, not just the suspect's actions, seems fishy.
 
I've known ML personally for a while now, have been to his home several times, and have spoken to him and his wife about this about this repeatedly over the last few days. FWIW I can say without a doubt this is not BS..

It does show how sometimes you can be caught off guard and unprepared, but it is by no means fishy.

I am SURE he has involved the local authorities by now and will have a report on how that went before long..... RIGHT!!!! :cuss:
 
Tek, one thing you need to remember is that owning a gun does not immediately impart intelligence. ML is probably like a lot of us, and simply caught off-guard with a circumstance that he hadn't thought of. It happens. I didn't even think of keeping one of my pistols loaded at home until we had an attempted break-in last November. After that we beefed up the defense levels a little and I keep both my handguns loaded, even if they are locked down. Defensive Thinking requires as much practice and study as Defensive Shooting. Eventually it becomes second nature, but not everyone is gifted with it from the get-go.

Upon review of my post, I feel I need to state that I don't consider ML to be foolish or dumb. On the contrary, I think 99% of the people on here are quite intelligent. I just didn't want anyone thinking I was downing on him. :)
 
The only thing suspicious to me is that your neighbors weren't contacted BUT maybe they were not home or didn't hear the knock or ignored it?

When I was young (teenager) I took some door to door sales jobs and they really pressure the salesmen to be aggressive don't take no for an answer, get in the door, etc. so I believe this could be a young inexperienced salesman. He probably has a boss who says go back until soemone answers and part of him doesn't want to be a salesman so he knocks and leaves quickly - I saw guys do it.

BUT, it could just as easily be that he is casing the place for his friends.

The thing is you don't know if its legit or not.

Either way take it as a warning and an opportunity to be prepared in case some BG does come knocking and isn't so timid.
 
Vynx also makes a good point. The counterpoint is that the second guessing he (and we) are doing right now is exactly how crooks want you to feel. After something like this, a good crook would give you a couple days to tell yourself that you're imagining things...then strike.

But would any of the measures we've been suggesting be out of place anyway? Is a gate/driveway anouncer a bad idea? Motion sensor lights? Holsters & Training? Calling the cops? At worst it makes you look a little foolish. Maybe you have to shell out a little bit of cash now. How much more security will that buy you in the future, though? Nobody here is suggesting that the guy go out and wait in ambush to snipe the guy (Observe, maybe but start a gun battle? Are you crazy?). Even if this guy is just a pushy, self-conflicted salesman in training, what about the next batch of undesireables? The irony is that if the additional security precautions work, you will probably go through life feeling like you over-reacted. The only way to know you were right about your initial gut feeling would be to ignore it and suffer the potential consequences.

So, game theory wise: Do little or nothing, gain nothing, possibly lose everything you have now. Prepare a little, gain a more secure setup, lessen the chance of losing what's important to you, possibly lose a LITTLE cash & "face". The choice seems clear. Hell, your example might even inspire a neighbor to beef up their security a bit as well and help them avoid a similar situation.

(Wish I could afford & convicne the wife to live on our own rural property, but alas).
 
What I'm wondering is about the children's magazine bit... Could be that's what the guy's into...

I've NEVER had a magazine salesman come by who was only selling one brand of magazine - they've always got a selection...

Guns outta the safe, loaded, scattered around the house. A few kitchen knives wouldn't hurt either. Would you happen to maybe have an RPG handy?

Phone and keys in the pocket.
 
They don't sell magazines, they sell children's educational books (ie hardcover study guides, etc). There actually aren't many different sets to choose from. That explains the "lack of variety".
 
And these multi-level marketing types usually don't try to sell multiple brands simultaneously. This guy was handed a kit and told to go out and sell. He's not going to cart around three different companies' products. Whether he was using it as a cover for more nefarious activities or was legit remains to be seen.

Hopefully the OP is lucky and the guy hits some other, easier place first, and gets caught, or gets spooked out of the area by LE.

If I was (hypothetically) going to try and scout people's places before robbing them, you better believe I'd arrange a good cover story. Real products, etc.
 
If I was (hypothetically) going to try and scout people's places before robbing them, you better believe I'd arrange a good cover story. Real products, etc.
Click to expand...
True--but I would NOT (hypothetically) become an actual salesman for the company: it would be way too easy to find out who I was.
 
How about a slight update...

I spoke with ML last night. He assured me he would be contacting the local Sheriffs Office upon the end of our phone call. He has taken this as a learning experience, as have I and will be making home/life adjustments as he sees necessary.

This can be a good wake up call to those prepared and those who need to be.
Having the home set up in an unobtrusive defensive posture, having defensive gear training, and maintaining a high level of situational awareness is easy to say but not the easiest to do...

Multiple suggestions have been made as to how he can better prepare his home for events such as this. Having an early warning system and external monitoring devices is a good start. When it comes to defensive training and sitiational awareness it is time to begin the education. Anyone can go to a range and shoot under ideal conditions. However, shooting under stress, with an adrenaline dump is something rarely practiced by most. When it comes to situational awareness... Well this is where it can get awkward. Research everything you can, learn what is available, and practice it whenever possible. The issue I have encountered sometimes is that there is a fine line between precaution and paranioa... Still most of the time it is better safe than sorry...
 
I have been following this story intently as I live in the middle of nowhere and have caught people on my property. Bottom line is the guy atleast needs a dog. It is true that a dog is easily dispatched by someone that is determined to do harm, but considering that he has no history with this guy I would assume that he is just casing for a B and E, but you never know his intentions. A dog, especially a large one will be a good deterant. Even a small dog will provide an early warn

I am looking forward to an update.
 
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