Stranger blocks you from entering Vehicle

[Bcwitt]

A disagreement arises @ a work location & things go bad. You attempt to leave. They/he/she blocks you from your vehicle. They will not step away from your vehicle door. There is no other retreat. Does this make it a false arrest? At what point are you a "hostage"? Would you be able to argue they stole your vehicle?

 

[1KPerDay]

Call the police and walk away

 

[Kleanbore]

hey/he/she blocks you from your vehicle. They will not step away from your vehicle door. There is no other retreat. Does this make it a false arrest? At what point are you a "hostage"? Would you be able to argue they stole your vehicle?

How the criminal justice system might treat them/him/her after such an event is not within the purview of the civilian.

 

[Jeff White]

They/he/she is obviously trying to provoke a physical confrontation. Ask them politely to step away. If they don't, disengage and call the police. Attempting to physically move the person away not only gives him the physical confrontation he is attempting to provoke but it puts you in a he said/she said situation when the police are called to break up the fight. The possible civil and criminal penalties greatly outweigh the satisfaction of physically moving the person. I wouldn't recommend counting on surveillance video to protect you. Most video has no audio and it will be impossible to tell what really happened.

 

[anothernewb]

lawsuits and the fear of financial recrimination have completely skewed the results in favor of the offending person.

the "correct" method of dealing with that situation has been completely corrupted and separated from what is the "right" thing that needs to happen.

 

[dweis]

Some states is not all have laws about the obstruction of freedom of movement. It is not the same thing as a false arrest which stops you from moving at all. The prudent thing to do is disengage, move away from the obstructors , and if you have a smart phone with camera take a still pic and them turn on the video to record what takes place. If the perps come after joyous when they see the camera I suspect the would be guilty of assault. If they make contact it would likely be battery. I think it all depends on state and local law.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

There is no other retreat.

Then just get in your car. Obviously, you are not getting in our car because you are afraid of something.

Me, I would just get in the other side.

 

[Kleanbore]

lawsuits and the fear of financial recrimination have completely skewed the results in favor of the offending person

How's that? How might "fear of 'financial recrimination' " enter into this?

the "correct" method of dealing with that situation has been completely corrupted and separated from what is the "right" thing that needs to happen.

Just what is it that you think "needs to happen", and how has the "correct" mehod of "dealing with that situation" been "corrupted and separated" from it?

You need not go back any further than Blackstone's writings on the Common Law.

 

[wayneinFL]

I'm trying hard to imagine a situation in which this is possible. There is a place big enough for a car to exit, but a human can't get through it?

Is this a commercial complex like a storage facility where a sensor will open for a car? And there's no emergency exit for people? Then retreat to the other side of the storage facility.

Hard to imagine that you can't step away and call the police.

 

[Smokin Gator]

Walk away, pull out phone turn around and start recording as you tell the person to stop blocking your entrance to your property. Proceed from there.

 

[Coyote3855]

This entire thread makes little sense. What would you tell the police? How can there be no other way to disengage? Go back where you were and wait. Surely at some point, the blocker will get bored and go away?

 

[Chief TC]

In general, I agree it is best to record, walk away and call the police. However, there may be a situation to enter a vehicle to protect yourself or drive away. If you feel confident in inserting your way into your own vehicle without assaulting the obstacle then I can agree with that as well.

Remember that no person, to include LE, is allowed to prevent you from touching and using your own vehicle for an invalid reason. But, you must be careful not to be the initiator of an assault.

 

[Bcwitt]

This entire thread makes little sense. What would you tell the police? How can there be no other way to disengage? Go back where you were and wait. Surely at some point, the blocker will get bored and go away?

Would you drive an hour to the city & abandon your car/truck?

I'm trying hard to imagine a situation in which this is possible. There is a place big enough for a car to exit, but a human can't get through it?

Is this a commercial complex like a storage facility where a sensor will open for a car? And there's no emergency exit for people? Then retreat to the other side of the storage facility.

Hard to imagine that you can't step away and call the police.

Cities have one way streets. Sometimes crooks set up a false contractor meetings so they can rob your vehicle. You will be stuck on a one way street & the police will do nothing. City police are a sad joke.

Call the police and walk away

You would abandon your car/truck?

 

[Kleanbore]

You will be stuck on a one way street & the police will do nothing.

That doesn't make any sense.

 

[JohnKSa]

Does this make it a false arrest?

Not remotely.

At what point are you a "hostage"?

When they actually take you hostage. When they constrain you by force or the threat of force to remain in captivity.

Would you be able to argue they stole your vehicle?

If you did, you would be unsuccessful since what they are doing is not remotely similar to theft.

Would you drive an hour to the city & abandon your car/truck?

How would you drive anywhere without a vehicle? Why wouldn't you just call the police?

Cities have one way streets. ... You will be stuck on a one way street & the police will do nothing. City police are a sad joke.

1. Now we're inside the city instead of an hour away from it?
2. How does being on a one way street make someone "stuck"?
3. Since you're making up the scenario, why not make up a scenario where the city cops are great? Or maybe call the sheriff or constable or state troopers instead of the city cops.

Sometimes crooks set up a false contractor meetings so they can rob your vehicle.

If someone tries to rob you, you have some options that are not legally available to you when someone is merely blocking your path.

IF you are really in a situation where a person absolutely will not allow you to access your vehicle AND law enforcement will not help or is not available, you MIGHT be able to legally use force (NOT deadly force) or threaten force to recover access to your property. That would depend on the laws in your area. If you get it wrong, you've probably committed a felony. If they don't respond to the threat of force or are able to repel your use of force without putting you in fear of your life then you have exhausted your legal options.

IF it's legal to use force to recover access to your vehicle AND when you do so, the person responds in such a way that you reasonably believe that your life is in danger AND you have no duty to retreat laws in your area, then you might be able to use the normal self-defense laws as justification if you were FORCED to respond with deadly force to try save your life.

If you take that approach and are forced to use deadly force to survive, I doubt there would be a day for the rest of your life that you wouldn't wish you had just walked away and/or waited for law enforcement.

 

[Bcwitt]

That doesn't make any sense.

What dosent?

 

[Bcwitt]

Not remotely.

When they actually take you hostage. When they constrain you by force or the threat of force to remain in captivity.

If you did, you would be unsuccessful since what they are doing is not remotely similar to theft.

How would you drive anywhere without a vehicle? Why wouldn't you just call the police?

1. Now we're inside the city instead of an hour away from it?
2. How does being on a one way street make someone "stuck"?
3. Since you're making up the scenario, why not make up a scenario where the city cops are great? Or maybe call the sheriff or constable or state troopers instead of the city cops.

If someone tries to rob you, you have some options that are not legally available to you when someone is merely blocking your path.

IF you are really in a situation where a person absolutely will not allow you to access your vehicle AND law enforcement will not help or is not available, you MIGHT be able to legally use force (NOT deadly force) or threaten force to recover access to your property. That would depend on the laws in your area. If you get it wrong, you've probably committed a felony. If they don't respond to the threat of force or are able to repel your use of force without putting you in fear of your life then you have exhausted your legal options.

IF it's legal to use force to recover access to your vehicle AND when you do so, the person responds in such a way that you reasonably believe that your life is in danger AND you have no duty to retreat laws in your area, then you might be able to use the normal self-defense laws as justification if you were FORCED to respond with deadly force to try save your life.

If you take that approach and are forced to use deadly force to survive, I doubt there would be a day for the rest of your life that you wouldn't wish you had just walked away and/or waited for law enforcement.

Thank you. I do appreciate it.

 

[Bcwitt]

Police go on strike. They cannot be counted on.

How the criminal justice system might treat them/him/her after such an event is not within the purview of the civilian.

Anyone not serving in the military is a civilian. Period. Not sure how this is DODs jurisdiction.

 

[Jeff White]

Anyone not serving in the military is a civilian. Period. Not sure how this is DODs jurisdiction.

Don't take us there! I will not have another thread derailed with a useless discussion of semantics. In this forum we use the Webster's Definition that defines "civilian" as anyone not serving in the military or police and fire service. I don't care what you personally believe, that's your right but we won't call out another member for using the common definition.

 

[JohnKSa]

Thank you. I do appreciate it.

Keep in mind that if you escalate the situation to the use of force and the other person decides to take it further, there's always the chance that you will be killed or seriously injured. Just because it's legal to use deadly force doesn't mean you automatically win. Sometimes the good guys lose.

Also, if you end up using deadly force in a situation that looks like a defense of property dispute to the legal system--based on their examination of the available evidence after the fact--you will certainly go to trial and probably go to prison.

If you ever do find yourself in this kind of situation, it's going to be to your tremendous benefit to come up with a solution that is very unlikely to escalate to a deadly force confrontation.

Police go on strike. They cannot be counted on.

As I mentioned, there are probably at least 4 LE organizations that have jurisdiction within the city--police, state police, sheriff, and constables. Outside of the city, maybe 2 or 3. BUT, even if you can't get the police to help you, that's not going to give you extra leeway under the law. If something is illegal, it's not going to magically become legal just because the police don't come when you call.

 

[Jeff White]

There needs to be more context. This is the situation you describe:

A disagreement arises @ a work location & things go bad.

What kind of disagreement? Payment for goods or services? A perceived insult? Quality of work performed? What goes bad? Heated words exchanged? Threats? Shoving?

They/he/she blocks you from your vehicle. They will not step away from your vehicle door. There is no other retreat.

Are you an your vehicle in a building? If no one is keeping you from walking away there IS a way to retreat.

Does this make it a false arrest?

Did the person blocking you from you vehicle say he was holding you for the police? Making a citizens arrest? If not I don't see how false arrest figures into it at all. Citizens arrest laws vary from state to state and most only allow a private citizen to make an arrest if he witnesses a felony occurring.

Most states have laws addressing Unlawful Restraint the title may differ but it's generally illegal to hold someone against their will, However if you were free to walk away you weren't being restrained.

At what point are you a "hostage"?

You obviously aren't a hostage if you can walk away.

Would you be able to argue they stole your vehicle?

Maybe......This is a matter for the police. The original disagreement might end up being settled in criminal court but I see no legal way to use force to move the person away from your vehicle.

 

[shafter]

This is simple. Call the police via 911 and record the interaction. If they escalate further then deal with it by whatever means are appropriate. Don't let them provoke you.

In my area it's doubtful that law enforcement would charge someone with assault for using a low level of force to push someone away who was blocking them from getting into their vehicle. That wouldn't be my go-to solution but at some point I'm driving away.

 

[Chief TC]

Don't take us there! I will not have another thread derailed with a useless discussion of semantics. In this forum we use the Webster's Definition that defines "civilian" as anyone not serving in the military or police and fire service. I don't care what you personally believe, that's your right but we won't call out another member for using the common definition.

You are correct, civilians are those not in the US Armed Forces or an LEO and is the accepted definition. The definition of a civilian is they do not give up certain rights/liberties to swear an oath and allegiance to the constitution and government institutions. LEOs have more authority than military since military cannot order or control civilians unless it is under martial law or guard call up by the governor.

 

[JimCunn]

This sounds like some sort of hypothetical scenario, not real life.

 

[dobedo]

Take out you cell phone and hit record.