Straw Purchase!

[45Badger]

To add some context, Philadelphia is having a murder problem, partially supplied by straw purchases with gang bangers getting guns from/through their hoes/sisters.

Our fearless gub'ner (fast Eddie Rendell, former mayor of said cess pool/cradle of liberty) has dedicated lots of state resources (and called in his fed friends), and proposed lots of silly legislation to help the current mayor with this problem. This guy probably got caught up in that effort.

Philly doesn't need more gun control. They need more birth control. Too many unsupervised little bangers running amok.

 

[rainbowbob]

i agree, the buyer, in a just world, should not have to fill out any federal form to exersize a civil liberty. unfortunatly, this isn't that world and we do, and he lied. and got busted.

OK...but some of us here are bemoaning the fact that he didn't do MORE time? What's up with that?

Assume for a moment the recipient wasn't a violent felon (although we don't have any reliable info one way or the other). Perhaps he was unable to buy firearms in NY because of their unconstitutional laws. Are we still applauding the straw buyer's conviction and sentence in that case?

And you can save the "He did the crime - he should do the time" comments. I'm well aware that when you commit civil disobedience (if that's what it was) you risk the consequences. I also happen to believe there are now - and always have been - many laws in this country that almost REQUIRE civil disobedience from those with a degree of moral courage.

Of course...I must add the disclaimer that neither I nor any other member of THR advocate breaking any laws whatsoever, under any circumstances, no-siree-bob, so-help-me-God.

 

[SCKimberFan]

Nicholson admitted that he purchased the firearms for a New York man from March 2006 to February 2007.

This is the info given. We have no way of knowing if the guy in NY was legal or not. We do know that said buyer pled guilty to straw purchases.

We are always touting the "let's enforce the laws we have now" mantra. Well, that's what they are doing. If you want to have it determined unconstitutional, then get yourself arrested for the same offense and TRY to take it to the Supreme Court. That is the way you have a law challenged as unconstitutional. Any takers?

 

[dbarile]

Thats not true. It is a myth. The fact is that a criminal will likely get the same sentence whether they plea or go to trial.

I'd sure like to see a source on that because it goes against all of my experience. I try to keep informed on this kind of stuff, and if I'm off base I want to know. Of course I'm speaking to the sentencing and not time actually served.

 

[JohnBT]

"Perhaps he was unable to buy firearms in NY because of their unconstitutional laws. Are we still applauding the straw buyer's conviction and sentence in that case?"

I don't know if you are, I doubt it. I am.

Perhaps the buyer who funded the straw purchases was a priest from Italy. No? How about a Chinese holy man who needed guns to take back to China to fight the commies bosses? An 80-year-old widow from a bad neighborhood?

How about a crook. Yeah, that's it. Probably reselling them to whoever he could get the most money out of. I wonder how many other buyers he had working for him? See, I can make stuff up too, but mine is more believable.

The laws ARE Constitutional until the Supreme says they aren't.

The bums made honest gun owners look bad - by association in the media if nothing else.

John

 

[rainbowbob]

If you want to have it determined unconstitutional, then get yourself arrested for the same offense and TRY to take it to the Supreme Court. That is the way you have a law challenged as unconstitutional. Any takers?

No thanks...not me...nobody here but us chickens...but I'm not going to be disappointed that someone who does have the courage to do so receives "only" 20 months for it.

Mind you...I'm not suggesting our "straw buyer" in this instance was committing a courageous and unselfish act of civil disobedience. But we really don't know what the circumstances were.

 

[Frank Ettin]

...I'm not suggesting our "straw buyer" in this instance was committing a courageous and unselfish act of civil disobedience...

Sure you are. See posts 13 and 27. Maybe he was doing it "for the children" -- you know, under age gang members.

If you have evidence that he is some sort of freedom fighter for truth, justice and the American way, bring it on. But if you don't, the guy pleaded guilty and got what, or less than what, was coming to him.

 

[rainbowbob]

I'm not suggesting our "straw buyer" in this instance was committing a courageous and unselfish act of civil disobedience...

Sure you are.

Nah...I'm just suggesting the possibility in light of the fact we don't know one way or the other:

Assume for a moment the recipient wasn't a violent felon (although we don't have any reliable info one way or the other).

 

[TRGRHPY]

I'd sure like to see a source on that because it goes against all of my experience. I try to keep informed on this kind of stuff, and if I'm off base I want to know. Of course I'm speaking to the sentencing and not time actually served.

I'm a criminal justice student getting ready to graduate later this year. I have had two professors, both ADA's, who have stated so. Our text backs this up as well as other professors who are prior LE. I can dig through my books, contact the professors, or do an online search if you'd like, but I'm not just giving an opinion about that. No, I wasn't speaking about actual time served either. One thing to consider is what type of bargain it is, whether it relate to the sentence itself, or the charge(s). If it is the sentence itself, it only goes against what the maximum sentence is, and a jury trial doesn't mean that the maximum sentence will be imposed. Also, determinate sentencing will play, taking Judges discretion away.

 

[Dirtpile]

it is there to keep guns out of the hands of people who should not have them!

Too bad it doesn't ACTUALLY work though.
If it did we might be in such a deep hole with the Libs.

 

[KevinAbbeyTech]

It's not unconstitutional until the Supreme Court says it is.

I don't agree with the above statement.

 

[dbarile]

One thing to consider is what type of bargain it is, whether it relate to the sentence itself, or the charge(s).

Mea Culpa

Perhaps it would have been better for me to have said a plea bargain generally reduces the charge and thus the eventual sentence. Several local felons here have recently plead guilty to lesser charges and thus a reduced sentence. It was/is my understanding that a great number of criminal cases are 'plead out' as opposed to being tried in the courts.

To get somewhat back on topic, when I buy a gun locally from an FFL, one of the first lines on the form is the acknowledgment that I am the purchaser of the gun and not buying it for someone else. Obviously using someone elses money to buy a gun for them, or buying a gun(s) for the sole purpose of selling right away it would be a straw purchase. I have little sympathy for this guy if he had to sign on to the same form I do.

 

[Frank Ettin]

It's not unconstitutional until the Supreme Court says it is....

I don't agree with the above statement.

That's too bad, Kevin, because John is correct. That's the way things work in real life. Of course, you're free to have an opinion regarding the constitutionality of a law, and your opinion could differ from that of the Court; but your opinion won't mean anything. The opinion of a judge on a matter of law will affect the lives and property of real people in the real world. Your opinion on a matter of law and $2 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

Until a court has tossed out a law, it will continue to affect real people real life.