Suggest Me a Muzzleloader

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Stick Man

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Hello, I'm completely inexperienced with muzzle loaders, but looking to get in to the sport. I basically want to find a good quality but plain Jane working rifle. I'm interested in both Flintlocks and percussion rifles right now. Whether it is production or custom doesn't matter to me, but it needs to be quality. I'm willing to spend what it takes, but if the price were to be from $1000 to $1600 that would be preferred. I want something in 58 caliber preferably. This rifle would be for elk, and hopefully one day black bear.
Thanks.
 
If you are wanting a traditional muzzleloader and not a inline , I would look at Lyman , but I think they only go up to .54 cal. .
 
I hear lots of good things about the Great Plains Rifle but I can't comment on it as its way out of my price range. I have an older TC Hawken which does well. If you were looking at a fraction of your stated budget I would say to look on the used market for one but of you are looking to spend that kind of money you can get a better rifle that is brand new.

Read up on the GPR, as many folks as there are talking favorably about them, there has to be some reason behind it.
 
I suggested a Lyman to him on another thread.
But he felt it wasn't good enough quality
and being most are 1:48 he wants a round ball twist.
But yet he is completely inexperienced.
But he does want to spend $1000 to $1600.
Question is because of his inexperience, what happens when things go awry as they oft times do in this sport until you do get experience, lots of it.
Does he blame the gun the load or himself for failures?
It's his money he can definitely spend it as he wishes.
Is he aware of the weight he will be carrying in the woods in a 58 cal plus
accessories? The fact he is only going to get one shot.
I know a lot of elk hunters that get skunked each year with bolt action 3 to 5 round magazines.
Elk can be and oft times are a hard animal to hunt. Lot of rough terrain.
Plus getting the meat out again, if you are successful.

Personally I think he would be better off starting out with a 54 cal Lyman Great plains hunter or very similar for around $600 or maybe even a good
used Thompson Center ( since they no longer make sidelocks I understand).
Get his feet wet, get some on hands training, loading, firing, load data, etc.
Get the accessories he is going to need.
Meet up with some other more experienced BP folks and shoot with them at targets.
For his intended game animal the 54 is more than adequate.
And as mentioned Dixie does offer a wide range of rifles, different calibers, models etc. So do a lot of other online suppliers.
Bad thing is he can't actually handle it before hand, or try it out.
So finding a club or other BP people locally would be beneficial in helping him make a good wise knowledgeable selection
But that's just my 2 cents.
 
"I suggested a Lyman to him on another thread.
But he felt it wasn't good enough quality
and being most are 1:48 he wants a round ball twist.
But yet he is completely inexperienced.
But he does want to spend $1000 to $1600.
Question is because of his inexperience, what happens when things go awry as they oft times do in this sport until you do get experience, lots of it.
Does he blame the gun the load or himself for failures?
It's his money he can definitely spend it as he wishes.
Is he aware of the weight he will be carrying in the woods in a 58 cal plus
accessories? The fact he is only going to get one shot.
I know a lot of elk hunters that get skunked each year with bolt action 3 to 5 round magazines.
Elk can be and oft times are a hard animal to hunt. Lot of rough terrain.
Plus getting the meat out again, if you are successful."

I'm not un-acquainted with elk hunting, or with carrying heavy loads in steep terrain. I don't know exactly what a .58 cal and its accessories would weigh, but my current elk rifle with scope and some ammo on the stock weighs ten pounds. So, I am used to holding a good deal in my hands while on some pretty tough landscapes. I'm not some amateur with silly notions about hunting that wants to go play Hawkeye. I train for elk season. My schedule includes includes a lot of running and hiking.
I've bought most of my gear and weapons with practicality in mind. With bolt action rifles that ends up meaning stainless steel and synthetic stocks. Now I want to buy a rifle simply because it's beautiful, because it invokes feelings, and because I like it. I'm sure your Lyman is good, but I want something that feels special to me. I've held the Lyman, it just doesn't light my fire.
I am buying this specifically to hunt out of state muzzleloader seasons. I recognize the limited range that goes along with it, and the one shot. But I want a challenge.
I appreciate the advice.
 
I've sent some emails to TVM. Very helpful service. They look like good products. I won't be surprised if I go this route. Thanks for all the info guys.
 
I second what Choctaw said, if you are spending that kind of money, TVM offers some beautiful rifles with good to great components, barrels, locks, triggers. And their Premium stocks will knock your socks off. But you better hurry as a lot of people love TVM and buy more than one so they do have a waiting list.
 
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TVM is impressive. Just be sure you choose a caliber you can get a roundball mold for.

I'm hunting elk in two weeks with my flinter, a fine 62 made by Steve Zihn of Wyoming. But TVM is going to provide you a very nice firearm for a price much lower than custom, and much better quality than storebought.
 
I was speaking to Steve Zihn on the Firing Line Forum. Very helpful guy, and his prices seem very good. Still think I'm going with TVM, though. No reason other than I was speaking with them first. But I don't think my first muzzleloader is going to be my last and I would like a Steve Zihn to be my second.
 
Steve is a fabulous builder, and a man of character. I wholeheartedly endorse him for any gun project you might have - we are blessed to have my wife carry an early English Fowler built by Steve, that many have thought to be an original. My .62 Southern Rifle (much akin to an early Lancaster) is a joy to point and to shoot. We have powder horns he did years ago, as well, and are simply blessed to be able to call Steve a friend.

So, you now know my bias. :)

Barrel length on mine is 44", if I recall correctly. Swamped, can't remember if it is a Colerain or a Ryal. But a great gun, which will get carried on my elk hunt in two weeks. I hope to have a picture of it resting on a fine rack before I come home, to honor the builder. But that part is based on luck more than skill this year (had a heart attack in June, so I will be a slow motion hunter this year).

I'm leaning toward a TVM .40 for my next rifle, mostly because right now I want the .40 more than I want to wait to save up for a fancier gun from Wyoming. But I feel a flintlock Hawken calling my name from Shoshoni.....
 
TVM are ok, but you shouldn't limit yourself. Check out Track of the Wolf. They have a good selection of custom muzzleloaders including Hawkens for sale. Sixteen hundred will get you in the ball park.
 
I have known Steve Zinn for many years. His little ranch near the Wind River is isolated. Steve has built a number of rifles for me. I have an iron mounted East Tennessee long rifle that has won many matches. I have a Zinn Yeager in .58 Caliber. He does great work.
 
TVM

About TVM weight......I cannot speak to the weight of their .58s or .62s.
I own, though, one of their 20 gauge fowlers (.62). It was my first fowler and a good shooter. It was heavy at over eight pounds and walking the uplands with it was a chore.
My second fowler was made by Mike Brooks and is more than two pounds lighter than the TVM.
That being said....the Lyman GPR weighs in at nine pounds with a 32 inch barrel.
Pete
 
Stick,

I have never weighed my 62. But my guess is that it will be significantly lighter in the barrel than a TVM - the only way you can get to those prices is using straight barrels, not swamped, which are more expensive both to purchase and to inlet. (Check it out to be sure, I have been known to be wrong)

I have looked to TVM for that aforementioned .40, mostly because the weight of a small caliber straight barrel will not be an issue. But in balancing a larger caliber, a swamped (or tapered and flared) barrel is the way to go.

References to The Gun Works and Track of the Wolf point you to pretty safe resellers, but TVM is making the rifles, and from Steve and others like him you get the first hand custom gun made to fit you (length of pull at TVM; LOP, drop, and cast from Steve). Having the LOP, drop, and cast made for you is amazing, to close your eyes, shoulder the rifle, open your eyes and see the sights is pretty neat.
 
one minor thing you may want to consider.
Unless you are going to cast your own round balls.
the availability of those , in your local area.
Shipping them into you can get rather expensive based on weight
and most suppliers have started taking to the same packaging and pricing
as the modern ammunition folks. 50 count or less for a bit higher pricing.
Although there are still some 100 count packaging and suppliers out there.
Plus patches unless you are planning on cutting your own.

Also many (not all) 58 cal and bigger use a Musket cap rather than the traditional #11 cap on the smaller caliber rifles.
So when you buy make sure you know which cap the rifle requires.
Because musket caps don't tend to be as readily available in some areas.
shipping even one requires the $20 + hazmat fee
Have fun shooting whatever you decide on.
 
Here's a nice reproduction Hawken that's somewhere above the middle between custom and say---a Lyman.

I'll just post this picture before I tell you what it is. That premium curly maple stock is something you rarely find in anything but a custom made rifle

6569423.jpg

It's a commercial off the shelf "Rocky Mountain Hawken" made by Pedersoli. Of course it's only in .54 cal, but that's quite adequate for just about any North American game--at least it was back in early 19th century.

As I mentioned, it comes with curly maple, also a heavy browned barrel and quality double set triggers. It normally retails for $1300, but Cabela's has them on sale right now for $999. If you go just about any other route you may have to wait for months for a custom to be made or take whatever the dealer has on hand.

On the other hand this is a stock model that can be shipped in short order. Even better if you have a Cabela's near you, you can have one sent to your local store and pick it up if they don't have one on hand. This way you get to inspect it before you buy.

Cabela's

Lastly, here is a nice review of the rifle from the North American Muzzleloader hunter's website. The picture is from this review.

North American Muzzleloader Hunting

It never hurts to have options.

Cheers
 
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