Suggestions for 1930's gangster movie guns.

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glennser

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I've been asked by a close friend for suggestions of "machine guns" for a possible remake of a pretty famous gangster movie set in the '30's.
I know the first thing everyone thinks of is the Thompson but I thought some of you might have some more unusual options (BAR?), what do you guys suggest? The request was for a "machinegun" but I guess they probably want something at least portable or a subgun, the movie is set here (US/California) in the 1930's so anything gangsters or police during that period would have had is fair game. They want one for the pitch, not sure what the budget is exactly but take it they have a couple of thousand on hand anyway.
In a related topic they also want it to eventually be "blank firing or converted to safely fire blanks", now I know how dangerous blanks are and doubt they want a blank firing adapter ruining the looks of the thing but I was wondering if any of you knew how the movie guns do work (autos obviously)? I've heard of propane conversions, does that cycle the action like a blowback soft air pistol along with some kind of igniter for a muzzle flash? Presumably they're not very loud?
Please again please save any lectures on the safety aspects, I fully understand how dangerous blanks can be, everything will go through legitimate prop houses with weapons masters onboard, I'm only interested in the mechanics of movie guns so I understand them myself (ie I would never consider or allow anyone try to create one themselves)
Thanks in advance, I suppose the best thing to do would be create a poll when all the suggestions are in for those interested.
Glennser
 
A BAR - be sure it is in its pre-WWII configuration with no bipod - would certainly not be out of place in a gangster movie. John Dillinger and Clyde Barrow, just to name a couple, were known to use them. Barrow was actually quite "firearms-savvy," to overuse an overused word.
 
a pretty famous gangster movie
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What movie? I've got a bunch of them and may be able to tell you *exactly* what to use for a remake. There's also a question of whether your friend wants to be Hollywood real or real real. In the case of some of the famous shootouts there are precise records about who used what firearms which the movie version didn't always follow. Usually the real firearms during the 30's era shootouts were much cooler than the same old Tommy guns. Colt Monitors, for example. Or Remington Automatics. Or "whipit" shotguns.

I've heard of propane conversions, does that cycle the action like a blowback soft air pistol along with some kind of igniter for a muzzle flash? Presumably they're not very loud?
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I believe these are increasingly popular becuase they allow for shooting scenes to be filmed in strongly anti-gun jurisdictions around the world. They also may lower insurance rates. Traditionally though the Hollywood firearms were loaded with 5-in-1 blanks
 
Cut down BARs, Tommys, semiauto shotguns, even some of the Rem and Win semis, cut the barrels and butt stocks as short as possible.
 
Look at Little Caesar(Edward G.Robinson) 1930 and The Public Enemy(Jimmy Cagney)1931,for a realistic look at what the BG's were using then.
Cosmoline can obviously add a lot more.
 
As far as sidearms go, Al Capone carried a Colt .32 acp pocket 1903. And, as said, the Colt Monitor was used and has been all but excluded even though it was (next the Thompson) in a whole different class. Indeed, that early (and only) commercial version of the BAR fills a niche that should be explored. The power it offered makes the Thompson look like a pistol caliber carbine--which it was. The BAR (Monitor) is a devistating weapon, truly the first (in infantry use) of the squad automatic weapons.
 
Colt Monitor sure would be sweet

Make sure the Thompsons are the 1928 models. WWII stick out like a sore thumb.
 
Thanks for the suggestions

Thanks for all the suggestions guys, that pic of Dillinger's hardware is wild, especially that 1911, always amazes me how few truly new ideas there are.
Cosmoline, the director doesn't want me to give away the title publicly, he's coming into town in the next couple of weeks (from Ireland) and has his pitch set up with some Warner honcho, I guess you have the film in question, I'm trying to think of some clues that would allow you get it without being too obvious, it's a pretty famous film and I don't even know if the studio has agreed to a remake yet. It ends with a shootout in downtown LA as a result of triangulating a radio beacon, the BG gets hit with a sniper rifle, if you've seen the film recently you'll probably get it from there, also there's a really famous line in it that everyone would recognise immediately if I told you.
Thanks again guys, I'll let you know how things go.
glennser
 
Remington Model 8, and Winchester 1907/1910 autoloaders were pretty prevalent, plus the typical '97 and A-5 shotguns.
 
Thanks for the suggestions

Thanks for all the suggestions guys, that pic of Dillinger's hardware is wild, especially that 1911, always amazes me how few truly new ideas there are.
Cosmoline, the director doesn't want me to give away the title publicly, he's coming into town in the next couple of weeks (from Ireland) and has his pitch set up with some Warner honcho, I guess you have the film in question, I'm trying to think of some clues that would allow you get it without being too obvious, it's a pretty famous film and I don't even know if the studio has agreed to a remake yet. It ends with a shootout in downtown LA as a result of triangulating a radio beacon, the BG gets hit with a sniper rifle, if you've seen the film recently you'll probably get it from there, also there's a really famous line in it that everyone would recognise immediately if I told you.
Thanks again guys, I'll let you know how things go.
glennser
 
Make sure the Thompsons are the 1928 models. WWII stick out like a sore thumb.
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The 1928 Thompsons were used in WW2. The !928A1 Thompson had the heavier actuator and different recoil spring that brought the rate of fire down to what the army desired. Some of them were used by the British and used the vertical forends, and many with the horizontal forends were used by Americans along with the later M1 and M1A1 Thompsons.
The Thompson Vic Morrow Carried in the COMBAT! TV series of the '60s was the 1928A1 version.
If used in a gangster movie, the vertical forend is a must.
I saw a movie with Charles Bronson IIRC titled "Machine Gun Kelly" in which a couple of FBI agents were shown chasing him in one scene. One of the agents was carrying an M1A1 Thompson with a vertical forend ... it was still an interesting anachronism since both M1 versions have the actuator on the right side of the receiver rather than on top, and it's quite a glaring gaff if you know Thompsons.
 
cut down BAR's along the line of Bonnie and Clyde's "Whippit" guns would be visually very impressive, particularly if firing at night.
However, I would have to give a big +1 to the full auto 1911. They were .45ACP's, mostly stolen military guns. I believe Baby Face Nelson carried one. The guy who made them was in Texas, adapted them to fire full auto, installed the thompson fore grip for control, and used a curved 25 round magazine, as well as a strait mag that I do not remember the capacity of. When Dillinger or Nelson was killed they found the stolen military weapon among his effects, discovered the manufacturer and prosecuted him for recieving stolen government property.
I remember seeing an article on them in the later 80's in a "Soldier of Fortune" style magazine, and another more currently in "Machine Gun" magazine (or some similarly titled magazine.
Hope this helps.
 
Lots of guns.

Handguns :
Colt Army Specials, Official Police, Police Positive Special, New Service, M-1917, SAA, Detective Special, Model 1911 .45 and .38 Super, M-1903, M-1908, M-1908 Vest Pocket.
Smith & Wesson's Military & Police, Heavy Duty, M-1917.
Luger.

Shotguns :

Browning M-1903 Messenger Guns.
Ithaca's Auto & Burglar Gun.
Remington Model 10, 17, Model 11s.
Winchester Model 1897s and Model 12s.

Rifles :

Marlin 1893, 1894 or 1895 models.
Remington Model 8, 8A, 81A.

"Automatics" :

Colt B.A.R.s, Monitors
Thompsons

Winchester Models 94 and 95, Model 1907, 1910.

Yea, I know this thread is "old" but is still interesting. The guns suggested come from the article :
"Remembering the Gangster Getters", Leroy Thompson, Firearms for Law Enforcement, 1999, pp. 92-98.
 
GLENNSER - Feb. 27, 2008 - "Thanks again guys, I'll let you know how things go.
glennser."
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Glennser, so where is the "update?" Ten months is long enough for your friend to have gotten either a "green light" or a "Thanks, but that's not for us," from a studio exec.

Curious minds want to know. :)

L.W.
 
Don't forget to check out Scarface with Paul Muni and The Roaring Twenties with Jimmy Cagney. These are, IMHO, the best gangster movies ever made.
 
Remington 8 rifles, Browning A5 shotguns, etc.

Most everything else has been said.
 
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