Super Inconsistent Groups

[TheClasonater]

Hi all- I normally post down in the handloading section, but I have a quandry. I shoot 4-5 rifles consistently that I have handloaded and found accurate loads for. The sixth though, is becoming a point of frustration. It's a 308 and regardless of the bullet, powder, and day, I can't shoot a consistent group. Now, I ain't no precision benchrest thousand yard shooter, just a recreational shooter that enjoys rifles. This morning, at the range, my other 308 was under an inch at a 100 in 8 shots, and that was only because I wiffed the last one. This one though, two shots three or four inches high and to the left, next two... three or four inches low and to the right. That erratic nature happens whether it's 150, 165, or 180 grain boolits. It's been that way for a couple months now, and, although I handload for fun and like shooting, I am starting to see red and don't wanna expend more powder and bullets on this rifle. Where do you all start trouble shooting when you run into this??? What say ye?

For reference: the Rifle is bone Stock with unknown rounds (inherited, but in really great condition)
Ruger Hawkeye Hunter .308
Walnut Stock
Cabela's 4-20 5X scope

 

[luv2safari]

Hi all- I normally post down in the handloading section, but I have a quandry. I shoot 4-5 rifles consistently that I have handloaded and found accurate loads for. The sixth though, is becoming a point of frustration. It's a 308 and regardless of the bullet, powder, and day, I can't shoot a consistent group. Now, I ain't no precision benchrest thousand yard shooter, just a recreational shooter that enjoys rifles. This morning, at the range, my other 308 was under an inch at a 100 in 8 shots, and that was only because I wiffed the last one. This one though, two shots three or four inches high and to the left, next two... three or four inches low and to the right. That erratic nature happens whether it's 150, 165, or 180 grain boolits. It's been that way for a couple months now, and, although I handload for fun and like shooting, I am starting to see red and don't wanna expend more powder and bullets on this rifle. Where do you all start trouble shooting when you run into this??? What say ye?

For reference: the Rifle is bone Stock with unknown rounds (inherited, but in really great condition)
Ruger Hawkeye Hunter .308
Walnut Stock
Cabela's 4-20 5X scope

Change the scope for starters. If that doesn't help...

Bedding!

Glass the action and free float the barrel.

I'm fighting that with a 25-06 built on a M98 surplus action right now. I might try re-crowning it and fire lapping it. It had a Real tight chamber, and a machinist/gunsmith friend ran a finish reamer into it. That helped about 35% in my estimation.

1. Scope and mounts
2. Bedding
3. Crown
4. Throw it away...best this direction.

 

[BreechFace]

Hi all- I normally post down in the handloading section, but I have a quandry. I shoot 4-5 rifles consistently that I have handloaded and found accurate loads for. The sixth though, is becoming a point of frustration. It's a 308 and regardless of the bullet, powder, and day, I can't shoot a consistent group. Now, I ain't no precision benchrest thousand yard shooter, just a recreational shooter that enjoys rifles. This morning, at the range, my other 308 was under an inch at a 100 in 8 shots, and that was only because I wiffed the last one. This one though, two shots three or four inches high and to the left, next two... three or four inches low and to the right. That erratic nature happens whether it's 150, 165, or 180 grain boolits. It's been that way for a couple months now, and, although I handload for fun and like shooting, I am starting to see red and don't wanna expend more powder and bullets on this rifle. Where do you all start trouble shooting when you run into this??? What say ye?

For reference: the Rifle is bone Stock with unknown rounds (inherited, but in really great condition)
Ruger Hawkeye Hunter .308
Walnut Stock
Cabela's 4-20 5X scope

-How is the scope attached? Ruger provided rings on the receiver bridge?

-Is the barrel centered in the forearm barrel channel, I've had to "adjust" several of my Rugers as the receiver was not inletted in the stock perfect causing the barrel to run into the side of the barrel channel. Also, check that it is free floated. Most Rugers do have some upward pressure towards the end of the barrel channel on the underside, if you run into something there when checking for free float.

-Have you tried removing the scope and reinstalling with correct torque settings?

-Are you confident the scope is maintaining zero? I just hunted with a friend who found out after missing 4 shots on game his scope's windage turret wouldn't hold on one side and was walking.

-Check your torque settings on the receiver to the stock, especially the angled front receiver screw. Ruger's like to have the angled screw tight, I keep them at the top end of their suggested torque range of 50-90 inch/lbs. So I torque to 90inch/lbs. on mine.

-Have you had another person shoot the rifle for accuracy? Shouldn't be a concern with how you shoot your other rifles.

-Crown look good?

 

[JDGray]

All good info above. I’ll add not only should the action be stress free bedded, free floating barrel, but the scope base should be stress free bedded too.

 

[Nature Boy]

I’ll add another one. Do you know if the barrel is clean? If yes, how do you know?

I chased accuracy gremlins in a .308 only to find after exhausting many of the suggestions made above that the culprit was my sub par cleaning methods

 

[TheClasonater]

Lots of good suggestions here fellers. I appreciate it. Gonna head out to the garage in a few and start tinkering. And maybe clean it again I'll give an update soon.

 

[Varminterror]

It’s a Ruger M77 Hawkeye:

Phase 1:
• Confirm the scope is functioning properly
• Confirm the rings are secure to the receiver
• Clean the barrel with a carbon cleaner then copper solvent, borescoping to ensure you’ve pulled down to bare steel

Given those 3 are confirmed, Phase 2:
• Pillar block the action
• Glass bed the action
• Free float the barrel
• Free float the magazine box
• Correct the sear angle
• Reduce the trigger spring
• Confirm front action screw torque at 95in.lbs.

If none of that rectifies the consistency, then that dog just don’t hunt, and further work really isn’t worth chasing unless you have some subjective nostalgia tied to this particular rifle. But I’ve never met a Ruger M77, MkII, or Hawkeye which wouldn’t hold 1moa or slightly better with the above work completed.

 

[dirtman]

All good comments... and cleaning with an eye for copper....

 

[35 Whelen]

Sounds like a bedding issue to me.

35W

 

[luv2safari]

It’s a Ruger M77 Hawkeye:

Phase 1:
• Confirm the scope is functioning properly
• Confirm the rings are secure to the receiver
• Clean the barrel with a carbon cleaner then copper solvent, borescoping to ensure you’ve pulled down to bare steel

Given those 3 are confirmed, Phase 2:
• Pillar block the action
• Glass bed the action
• Free float the barrel
• Free float the magazine box
• Correct the sear angle
• Reduce the trigger spring
• Confirm front action screw torque at 95in.lbs.

If none of that rectifies the consistency, then that dog just don’t hunt, and further work really isn’t worth chasing unless you have some subjective nostalgia tied to this particular rifle. But I’ve never met a Ruger M77, MkII, or Hawkeye which wouldn’t hold 1moa or slightly better with the above work completed.

Also include a re-crown.

 

[jmorris]

It's a 308 and regardless of the bullet, powder, and day, I can't shoot a consistent group.

Where do you all start trouble shooting when you run into this???

I generally start with removing me or "I" and see what it can do on its own or as a team with the optic and me not playing much part. Starting with the initial zero.

One shot zero

www.youtube.com

 

[Varminterror]

Also include a re-crown.

I've only done work on about 150 Ruger M77 series rifles, I'm sure some of the millions of firearms they've produced have needed crown work, but it hasn't been a common issue that I've encountered to achieve the accuracy standard I mentioned.

 

[luv2safari]

Common, no...

It does happen more now, it seems, with less attention to detail and more in production. But, granted it's a long shot. I have cured three scatter gun rifles with a simple re-crown, two brand new and one a beater. It's something that can be eyeballed a bit.

 

[Turkeytider]

I`m always amazed at how many things can go wrong in rifle shooting! It seems that the number and nature of things that can impact ( usually negatively ) the flight of a bullet from point A to point B is limited only by one`s imagination. Sometimes I wonder how we ever hit ANYTHING! Makes shotgun shooting look like child`s play.

 

[Captains1911]

I haven't seen it mentioned, but be sure that the action screws, especially the forward one, is torqued properly. If not accuracy can degrade significantly. Ruger specs 90 in-lbs for the front angled screw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSz_U-HQjgU

ETA: now I see it was mentioned above. I would definitely start there. 90 in-lbs is the spec, whish is very tight....

 

[ms6852]

After doing everything suggested before my post, I would check the barrel with a bore scope and make sure there is no leading and that the rifling is not marred or scratched and that it also extends to the muzzle.

 

[JFrank]

The only time I’ve ever had a point of impact shift as far as the OP er is when I had a scope mounting issue. If a carbon ring was large enough to cause that, it would most likely be difficult to chamber a round as well.
Over torqued action could give a guy fits as well as well as a busted scope.

 

[goon]

First thing I’d check is that all action screws, scope mounts, sight mounts, etc. are tight. Then make sure you give the barrel a chance to cool between shots. I’ve had a few sporting rifles that would shoot great for three shots, then start to open up as the barrel gets warm.

 

[.38 Special]

I agree with those who suggest checking the scope first. In my experience, the number one cause of really wild grouping is the shooter. Once that has been eliminated as a possibility, loose scope mounts and defective scopes are next up. All other causes of truly bad accuracy combine to make up a fraction of the total.

 

[Turkeytider]

I agree with those who suggest checking the scope first. In my experience, the number one cause of really wild grouping is the shooter. Once that has been eliminated as a possibility, loose scope mounts and defective scopes are next up. All other causes of truly bad accuracy combine to make up a fraction of the total.

I wonder what % of the time problems are blamed on equipment when in reality it`s not being used properly that`s causing the issue?

 

[BreechFace]

I wonder what % of the time problems are blamed on equipment when in reality it`s not being used properly that`s causing the issue?

Lots of times, however I don’t think this is one of those…based on the OP comment below.

Now, I ain't no precision benchrest thousand yard shooter, just a recreational shooter that enjoys rifles. This morning, at the range, my other 308 was under an inch at a 100 in 8 shots, and that was only because I wiffed the last one.

 

[jmr40]

There is a technique to getting the action screws properly tightened. Put the action in the stock and finger tighten all action screws. The angled action screw has to be tightened 1st. Unlike other rifles it not only pulls the action DOWN into the stock, but toward the rear. If the other screws are too tight it can't move to the rear without putting everything in a bind.

I don't have any specs for torque, but the Rugers need more than most on that screw. The other screws are then tightened, but only tight enough to ensure they don't work loose and come out.

Also, the Rugers with angled action screws are much less responsive to bedding and floating than traditional rifles. Ruger designs them to have a tight fit between the action, barrel and stock. Done right it works. If you do try to bed the action and float the barrel I don't suggest it as a DIY project on a Ruger 77. Done wrong and it causes more problems than it solves. Done by someone experienced with that rifle and it can make it better. But not everyone understands how to work with the angled action screws.

This is one that I'd box up and send back to Ruger if the simple stuff doesn't fix it. Double check the scope, mounts and action screws 1st. It might just be a loose screw.

One other thing. Ruger factory rings are a different breed. They ship with one low ring, and one medium. The taller medium ring has to go on the rear receiver bridge. The shorter one goes on the front. It is possible to mount them backwards. The scope is at an angle and in a bind if that happens. Check that too. If you want to mount the scope higher, you only have to buy one high ring. Put the high ring on the rear and move the medium to the front.

If it needs any work done, let Ruger do it. Ruger is good about making things right at no cost to you. Most of the Hawkeye's I've shot and owned have been among the best of the 77 series. Older 77's could be inconsistent like that. One rifle might shoot great, the next would be terrible.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

When that happens to me. It's something loose. Usually scope base or rings.

 

[JFrank]

Ruger doesn’t do a lot of free work any more.

 

[High Plains]

There are plenty of great suggestions for things to check and perform. I would give it a good cleaning, check everything that is held on by a screw, and have someone else shoot it.