Suppressed hog hunting

[justin22885]

It's not "all that money" to set up a .300BLK "rifle."

In my case, because I already owned a 5.56 MRP with a registered SBR lower, I just bought the 10.5" .300 barrel when LMT put it on sale ( something like $290-$300). It runs the same 5.56mm BCG and mags.

But MRPs are switch-barrel propositions ... For guys with a typical 5.56 AR carbine, all they need is a .300BLK upper, and dozens of folks are making them, so there's ample price competition.

that still doesnt change the fact youre paying $2 a cartridge for ammo that isnt going to expand as few bullets in the 220 grain category are actually designed for hunting, you will have a much harder time killing an animal with a 300 blackout suppressed than you would a JHP 45acp

also, why pay $300 for half a rifle with inferior ballistics when you can buy a full rifle with inferior ballistics for the same price with a 45acp carbine?

 

[hq]

To me the suppressor, for hunting applications, is to use with supersonic rounds

The subsonics..... in almost all cases, deliver less than stellar results in hunting applictaions

Having hunted for close to three decades almost exclusively with suppressed guns, both with subsonic and supersonic ammo, I can only say that the weakness of hydrodynamic shock at subsonic velocities emphasizes the importance of shot placement and caliber/bullet choice. It can be done with great results, I've probably downed at least a couple of hundred game animals and many more pests with subsonics and, letting the history prove a point, until late 1800's all hunting calibers had been subsonic for centuries.

Knowing the limitations and acting accordingly goes a long way ensuring clean kills. There's no denying the advantages of supersonic and even hypersonic rounds, but the vast majority of failures with subsonics is caused by the hunter expecting more than the ballistic capabilities can deliver. It's not for impressing friends (at least not around here, cans are common, cheap and unlicensed), it's about not annoying your neighbors or anyone else for that matter if you decide to hunt near their property, especially in the middle of the night.

 

[benzy2]

I just got back from a hog hunting trip where we used suppressed AR's and it worked great. We shot full house hunting .223 ammo. The pigs ran around after the first shot but typically didn't know where to go to get away, allowing a couple accurate follow up shots. I built a .300blk upper to take but after seeing how it performs with subsonic loads I left it home. It really doesn't outperform a .45 ACP and does so at such and increased price per shot.

 

[agtman]

that still doesnt change the fact youre paying $2 a cartridge for ammo that isnt going to expand as few bullets in the 220 grain category are actually designed for hunting, you will have a much harder time killing * * *

Dude, seriously? Have you heard of a little hobby called "reloading"?

(1) It doesn't cost $2.00 per rd; and (2) with careful shot-placement at shorter ranges, the 200gn & 220gn .300 sub-loads will make quick, clean kills on hogs.

 

[txblackout]

lehigh maximum expansion is probably the go to subsonic 300 BO round. Typical prices are 1-1.50/round

Here are the benefits of 300 blackout for suppressed night hunting:

1) Can shoot supers or subs from the same gun.
2) I run an ATN xsight digital night scope, it is trivial to change the reticle for supers or subs (just enter reticle coordinates). Someday they might release firmware to allow you to switch reticles at the push of a button. Change magazines and change reticle coordinates, shoot. They have a beta ballistics program built in (I havent used it). Can compensate for the large blackout drop.
3) Compatible with AR 15 platform and magazines. If that is your standard platform then all parts you have will work, especially magazines.
4) lots of .30 bullet choices
5) cases are cut down from 223
6) blackout suppressors will work with optimum efficiency for 308, less so for 223.

So if you load 223 and 308 already, 300 blackout comes at a minimal cost and gives you maximum portability of accessories.

 

[hq]

If someone wants to shoot both subsonic and full power rounds from the same gun, .308 is by far the most common choice, often with subsonic factory loads. Full power .308 is in a different league altogether than .300BO, which is more or less an equivalent of 7.62x39 in performance, usually slightly below at V0/E0 and above at long range, depending on the BC of the bullet. Then again, subsonic 7.62x39 is also a proven alternative, even though it isn't as incredibly common as .308 in dual purpose applications.

The only thing .300BO has going for it is compatibility with standard AR platform. Even in that case .45ACP upper is a considerably better choice for subsonic hunting and pest control, wound channel being 50% larger in diameter and a whopping 125% larger in surface area, all with 12-16" penetration in soft tissue. That's a major difference by any standards, not to mention factory 230gr ammo starting at around $0.3 per round.

I wouldn't go as far as calling .300BO a fad or novelty, but it seems to answer a question nobody asked and at least for now it's limited by the cost of factory ammo, mediocre ballistics and trying to be a jack of all trades when, in fact, it's a master of none. If 7.62x39 fed properly from high (normal) cap magazines through the straight magwell it most likely wouldn't even exist. Several years ago when it was commonly called .300 Whisper I was about to build an upper for it but decided to wait and eventually couldn't be bothered. If roughly similar ballistics were in order, I'd much rather have a LAR47, enjoy dirt-cheap ammo, subsonics, indestructible AK mags and be done with it.

 

[txblackout]

The only thing .300BO has going for it is compatibility with standard AR platform. Even in that case .45ACP upper is a considerably better choice for subsonic hunting and pest control, wound channel being 50% larger in diameter and a whopping 125% larger in surface area, all with 12-16" penetration in soft tissue. That's a major difference by any standards, not to mention factory 230gr ammo starting at around $0.3 per round.

300BO ammo is expensive, but compatibility with the AR platform is huge. Training with your manual of arms is a really big deal. I want to be completely fluent and simply dont want to add another type of gun to learn. I shoot about once a week and rotate through my guns to make sure Im proficient with all of them (I have about 5 different types)

I can load plinking subsonics for about .35/round, but yes the best subsonic hunting bullets are around 1+ per round.

I wouldn't go as far as calling .300BO a fad or novelty, but it seems to answer a question nobody asked and at least for now it's limited by the cost of factory ammo, mediocre ballistics and trying to be a jack of all trades when, in fact, it's a master of none. If 7.62x39 fed properly from high (normal) cap magazines through the straight magwell it most likely wouldn't even exist.

7.62X39 doesnt feed properly in an AR platform and that *IS* the problem.

It is the perfect hog gun and good for home defense.

1) semi auto for follow on shots
2) enough power to take down a hog
3) can cycle supers or subsonics without any modifications or adjustments
4) easily can add infrared lights and night vision scopes for night hunting
5) the lower can be used with 223 uppers so dont need a dedicated 300 BO gun
6) same manual of arms as the AR
7) supers have same ballistics as AK and are coming down in price (although nothing is as cheap as AK rounds).
8) many choices for aftermarket triggers etc for AR platform

 

[Crosswire3]

Subsonic rounds will most certainly work for medium game within ~200yds. I can attest that a 240gn 44Mag plodding along at 950fps is not only near silent when suppressed, but will zip right through a big buck at 100yds.

The same can be said for 300BLK. Put it where it needs to go and you won't have a long trail to follow.

 

[hq]

It is the perfect hog gun

Even if the premise is AR platform with a single lower (really: why?) instead of RR LAR and artificially avoiding handgun calibers, there are .458 SOCOM and .50 Beowulf. It may be the perfect hog gun for someone who already owns one but it would hardly be among my top 5 recommendations for anyone looking to purchase a gun - even an AR - for said purpose.

 

[justin22885]

i think the important things to realize about 300 blackout is the high cost of off the shelf ammo, the limited options for 220 grain bllets to handload with as almost all of them made are for match shooting and will not expand, then we have to figure those rifles that are designed to expand are generally designed to do so at .308 velocities, these shotcomings generally make the .300 blackout a pretty pour choice for suppression over things like 458 socom, 45acp in a carbine, or 44 mag / 45 colt out of a lever action

its hard to beat manually operated rifles for suppression, without the gas leaks they are much more quieter, the lever action being quiet, tons of power with heavier bullets and the possibility of fast followup shots is what will make a 45 colt or 44 mag lever action a solid choice for silent hog hunting

 

[benzy2]

Even if we stick with the AR platform, doesn't a .45ACP upper do everything as well for less cost?

 

[hq]

Even if we stick with the AR platform, doesn't a .45ACP upper do everything as well for less cost?

Yes it does, even better as far as terminal ballistics are concerned. The problem is that it doesn't have a cool, tactical name and it hasn't been hyped or marketed as a dedicated subsonic round for mall ninja market segment. It's just an old lowly workhorse that happens to have the exact qualities a subsonic small to medium game short range hunting round needs.

 

[kanook]

The one thing that hasn't been mentioned (or I overlooked it) is most people that I know that already have/own a silencer in 30 caliber also own one in 9mm. Not that many own a 45 silencer.

So if a "Mall Ninja" wannabe wanted to start hunting suppressed with a 45, they would also need to purchase a new suppressor(not a bad thing) as well as all the other thing that have been mentioned, but if they already owned a silencer in 30 caliber they would just need the "Mall Ninja" badge.

 

[justin22885]

yeah, you can put 45acp into an AR-15.. but ive always thought the compactness of something like this, and how it reminds me of an MP7 with the extended receiver

 

[hq]

they would also need to purchase a new suppressor

That's a reason I concluded earlier that it may be perfect for someone who already owns a rifle chambered in it. Being too used to cheap, over the counter cans I may have partially overlooked the red tape involved in getting one...

 

[Nuclear]

You can shoot a 30 caliber through a 45 suppressor, only being a few decibels louder.

The real problem with a suppressed 45 is finding a decent carbine/rifle/upper for it.

 

[justin22885]

You can shoot a 30 caliber through a 45 suppressor, only being a few decibels louder.

The real problem with a suppressed 45 is finding a decent carbine/rifle/upper for it.

i see nothing wrong with the hi point carbine for that purpose, and theyre only like $250-$300 and with a magazine in the grip theyre very compact

 

[hq]

The real problem with a suppressed 45 is finding a decent carbine/rifle/upper for it.

Not really. Olympic Arms upper has been the baseline for regular lowers for quite some time. RMW and BAZ45 have proprietary lowers that use grease gun mags. There are quite a few non-AR alternatives too, HiPoint, Just Right, Mech Tech, Kriss, Thureon, LWRC SMG45, Beretta CX4, Auto Ordnance Thompson and Taurus CT G2 just to name a few. There are more on second hand market, Marlin Camp Carbine, UZI variants, HK USC and others. .45ACP base diameter is .471" (11.96mm), which means that a number of bolt guns chambered in .30-06 based or any other cartridge with similar base diameter can readily be barreled to a single shot .45. To keep it as simple and cheap as possible, any factory semiauto in .45ACP is probably the most obvious choice and ballistically very similar .45 Colt is better for lever and pump guns.

 

[dubbleA]

Justin22885

Could you share some pictures of your suppressed .45 acp carbine along side some of the hogs you have taken? Maybe some groups with it at 100,200,300 yards. What type of optics are you using? Is it a registered SBR?

 

[agtman]

Justin22885
Could you share some pictures of your suppressed .45 acp carbine along side some of the hogs you have taken? Maybe some groups with it at 100,200,300 yards. What type of optics are you using? Is it a registered SBR?

It must be that special unobtainium model ...

 

[hq]

It must be that special unobtainium model ...

Really? Mine might be too, like the suppressed pump shotgun I brought up earlier as a concept and a project. But there's no need to worry, here's a tiny part of my suppressed / soon-to-be-suppressed (1894 and 99/44 still missing adapters) hunting weapon collection, many of which see regular use throughout the season. Sorry about the narrow hallway, I had to limit the photo to only a few pistol caliber guns and one 7.62x39, but I'm sure you'll get an idea what one of my gun safes is full of.

Unfortunately I've only posted a few, fairly recent trophy shots with suppressed guns on hunting section so far, but I'm sure you'll find quite a bit more by using this novel invention called "google" and typing "suppressor", "hunting", ".45ACP", "pistol caliber" or any combination of these words in the "search" box, to find a number of so-called "hits" that might give a clue about proof of concept...

 

[agtman]

Actually, that's a nice collection! Thanks.

 

[justin22885]

Justin22885

Could you share some pictures of your suppressed .45 acp carbine along side some of the hogs you have taken? Maybe some groups with it at 100,200,300 yards. What type of optics are you using? Is it a registered SBR?

wow, youre really desperate about trying to prove 300 blackout is relevant, arent you? i take it you bought into the hype?

 

[dubbleA]

justin22885

No it's a pretty simple question. Go ahead a share some pictures with us of your personal set up along side of a pig or 3.

hq did and he wasn't even asked to do.

 

[hq]

wow, youre really desperate about trying to prove 300 blackout is relevant, arent you? i take it you bought into the hype?

I wouldn't call BO exactly irrelevant. It's just a mediocre-performance, atrociously expensive solution to a problem that never really existed. A canned subsonic package for a generation that has never realized the fundamental ballistic realities of bullet weight, terminal performance, energy and momentum. The importance of having a round feed reliably through the beloved standard AR lower has eclipsed factors that are considerably more important in the realities of hunting. An ideal AR solution would be .50 Beowulf with ultra-heavy 1100fps ammo. Chances for something like that to happen at a sensible price point are unfortunately slim to none.

For paper punching it isn't bad at all, providing that round count and budget can be balanced by either shooting fewer rounds, a sizable ammo budget or handloads.