Surplus M14s

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These types of things are a big reason not to elect anti-gun presidents (don't care what political party they belong to). They can do a LOT of damage to the 2a in 4 or 8 years. You can repeal bad laws but can't un-destroy firearms.
does anyone have any idea what CMP plans to sell once they are out of Garands?
Probably beat up Beretta M9s. It's a long shot to start repealing GCA, NFA, etc. but there are a lot of things Americans have done that were long shots.
 
Hi Klineia,
I am sorry for I don't the answers to your questions. I hope I could figure it out for you. I know a guy from army who met me months before while the time I was travelling to NY. He is still in contact with me. I will speak to him and will revert back. Thanks.
 
Back in the '80s and '90s, GENUINE M-14s were readily available on the commercial market in Canada.

I owned two of them, both all-TRW manufacture. The mounting for the selector was torch-melted into a blob, and I defy any private citizen without an extensive machine shop to resurrect the full-auto capability of a rifle altered in the manner of those rifles.

The first of my M-14s came from the very first shipment to arrive on the surplus market, and cost me $1400. A couple years later, the second one cost me exactly $192 in excellent condition. Averaging the prices, I figured I didn't do all that badly!

My information indicated that these were rifles that had been sold to Israel. Both carried British proofmarks, "proving" that they'd passed through Britain at some point in their travels.

Unfortunately, the rifles were non-importable to the USA (along with my machineguns) when we immigrated in '97. I still miss them, even though I now have a wonderful M1A.
 
Not only most M14s, but most 1911 pistols in US armories all over the nation were destroyed too, which always were semi-auto.
He destroyed millions of firearms to insure they never were given the the American people, with no other reason.

Can I get a citation for that?
 
I dont think the military would let any firearms drop into a surplus market... MAYBE M9's after the bluing is rubbed off and the firing pin is britle as a toothpick.

As for M14s, still in use, my Battery uses 3 of them over here in Afghanistan. They are the EBR models made by Springfield and do not have full auto capability. They are practically an M1A with a Leupold scope, collapsable stock, harris bipod, and everything else to make a gun lover pitch a tent........

They're Beautiful :)
 
Can I get a citation for that?

It is historical and policy record. Easiest to understand when it was being done, but still plenty of references to it and the politics of the time.

I am sure I could dig up some references as easily as you could.
The M9 had just been fully adopted by the US military in 1990, and the military had tons of 1911 pistols no longer needed being phased out.
The pace of stockpiled weapons becoming surplus is slow, but they were well on their way.
Then you had all the anti gun politics of the early 90s resulting in things like the 'Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act' creating NICS in 1993, the Federal Assault Weapon Ban in 1994, and programs like the DCM (former CMP) being shut down among other things.

To further insure these evil guns never fell into the hands of any outside the government most were ordered destroyed. This was done by cutting up or crushing millions of receivers of a few types of firearms, including m14s and 1911s.
These were systematically 'demilled' over a few years in the early 90s.

When others brought back the DCM as the private CMP one of the intentional limitations the antis jabbed back with was to keep them from selling surplus handguns.
Specifically to restrict their sales to .22 and .30 caliber rifles only, with the specific intent of insuring the mass stockpile of 1911 pistols recently retired for the M9 were not distributed to the population before fully destroyed.
As a result today even when the M9 is retired they still cannot become surplus under that same limitation.


These actions were motivated specifically to keep then filled armories of things like completely legal and retired 1911s from going to civilians in the short term, or things like m14 rifles some day in the future.
That was the principal motivation for both the destruction, and the speed with which it was carried out.
They were rabidly anti-gun, and wanted to act fast while in power to insure even once out of power the guns were already destroyed and even if the policy was reversed, the stockpiles were gone.

As a result US GI 1911s went from being on the verge of becoming the most numerous cheap and affordable handgun in the United States, to remaining an uncommon collector's item.

MAYBE M9's after the bluing is rubbed off and the firing pin is britle as a toothpick.
Read above. Out of fear of 1911s going to civilians in the early 90s (demilled) and the DCM being destroyed (and revived as the CMP with new restrictions) surplus handguns cannot go to civilians.
So all current and likely future military rifles are select fire and can never be transferred to civilians, and all handguns are specifically kept from being transferred to civilians through current channels.
So 'surplus' sources of almost anything made in the last several decades, and likely firearms of the future have been prevented.
 
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does anyone have any idea what CMP plans to sell once they are out of Garands?

Probably beat up Beretta M9s.

Nope, the CMP is not authorized to sell handguns. Unservicable 92's are destroyed.

When the Garands, Carbines, Springfields, and surplus .22 rifles are gone, that's going to be pretty much it for the CMP sales program. They aren't authorized to sell anything else that is surplus. Unless they partner with a manufacturer to sell new commercial match guns, like they did with Bushmaster a few years back, they'll be out of the gun selling business.
 
A bit of history might be in order. Back in the early 1960's there were plans to sell surplus M14's to NRA members and match competitors on the same basis as M1 rifles. The government, as the official manufacturer of the M14, would simply weld up the selector area, stamp an "M" (Modified) after the "M14" stamp, and sell the guns through DCM. As a new model issued by the manufacturer, it would have been perfectly legal (and still would be). The (then) ATTD had signed off, and some rifles had already been modified. The sale was to be announced in the American Rifleman in early 1964.

I need not go into detail about what happened on November 22, 1963, but after that, it would have been politically impossible for the U.S. Government to sell "machineguns" to even select members of the public. The Secretary of the Army, on orders from LBJ, cancelled the whole M14 deal, and the "M14M" rifles were cycled back into the military competition programs and the "loaner" program for state rifle teams.

They decided to allow M1903A3/A4 sales to continue, but removed and destroyed the scope sights on the M1903A4's, the reason those scopes are so scarce while the rifles are fairly common.

The DCM program as it existed, was replaced by the current CMP program later, as a result of other anti-gun agitation, but not at that time.

Jim
 
There is this friend of mine here in Geneva.. I like him much, but sometimes you gotta hate him..

m14ald10.jpg

Even more when I knew he sold the other one he had (Winchester) for 2000$ 2 months before I knew him and bought my 1st gun from him...
 
FYI, a few govt M14's did make it to the civilian market, by accident, before BATF halted it, via the DCM. They are held in civilian hands, legally, but just those few. (Lucky few!). For the record, the M14 was never a good weapon on full auto; too light for controllability, like the BAR. SO, we are probably better off with the semi-auto versions.
 
For the record, the M14 was never a good weapon on full auto; too light for controllability, like the BAR. SO, we are probably better off with the semi-auto versions.

It is not just select fire, the M14 receivers are drop forged from a decent steel alloy unlike most semi-auto versions on the market. They are made through a process and held to a durability standard that is beyond the requirements of most civilians. They are extremely rugged, more so than most of their civilian counterparts.
On top of that they would have been relatively inexpensive for those who obtained them as surplus. While the civilian version is not an inexpensive firearm.

So the m14 receivers would have been both inexpensive and more durable.
Instead most of them were wasted. Destroyed after tax payers payed for them.

The weight and recoil absorption of a rifle can be increased or decreased by altering or changing the stock. There is no permanent weight if you think you need something heavier in full-auto. Mercury, lead, and other inserts, and even various types of recoil dampeners can be used to alter handling on any rate of fire.



P.S. There is nothing wrong with most of the civilian clones and they are plenty durable to make a good rifle, the m14 receivers were just even better.
The components other than the receiver are actually better on many of the civilian rifles. But those could have been replaced or upgraded as they wore out on the better receiver.
 
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The "once an MG, always an MG" policy only applies to receivers...it's theoretically possible that a batch of M14s could be imported as parts kits with the receivers chopped. They you could build one up on a new receiver, or reweld the old one after removing its fullauto capability - just like people do to make semiauto Bren receivers. Per ATF letter, once a receiver is chopped up to their standards, it is no longer a receiver. Therefore rewelding it is legally no different than milling a new receiver from a big block of raw steel.
 
The very early Springfield M1A's WERE built from suplus parts on a cast receivers, but the GI parts diminished, and SA started contracting for parts as GI parts ran out. The Devine, TX receivers were forged, I believe, making them really desireable. Smith Ent. was SUPPOSED to have offered some forged receiver, but I don't know if that project got off the ground. If you look hard enough, and pay enough, you can get REAL close to a GI gun. The few DCM guns that made it into civilian hands has the select fire parts stripped, and the place where they mount on the receivers ground away (under the stock), and that was supposed to make them o.k. for release, but BATF ruled otherwise.
 
pardon me, but dont people that have a class 3 license have the right to own m14's??

and I've heard that South Korea has a boat load of 14's they no longer want and have asked for buyers in the US.
 
pardon me, but dont people that have a class 3 license have the right to own m14's??

There is no such thing. This is an often confused and misused term.

In general NFA firearms can be owned by paying for a tax stamp, price of $200. Now, that tax stamp allows the transfer of an item.

The law however is a bit different for full auto. Full auto weapons can be transferred, again after buying the tax stamp, but the full auto must ALREADY be in the NFA registry. No guns were added to that registry after May of 1986. So, there are a very few real M14's that are transferable but the prices are extremely high.

The 'Class 3' term refers to the type of Special Occupational Tax required to be paid to be a DEALER of these types of weapons. So even a "Class 3 dealer" can only buy what is out there, they cannot make new entries into the NFA database.


That requires a Class 2 manufacturer, to add things to the NFA database, but the form they would be added on is not one that can ever be transferred normally to citizens because it was put in the inventory after May of 86. Basically that stuff is limited to LE and military pieces during the manufacture and testing.

So, long story made short is that it doesn't matter if a batch of willing sellers were found with crates full of M14's, they can't come into the country and be entered into the NFA registry. That takes an additional SOT, a Class 1 importer.

And, if you later decide you don't want to be in business any longer after getting into this, you can only keep pre-86 firearms. Anything newer has to go. Pre-86 meaning that it was entered into the NFA registry before May of 86, not just made before May of 86.

Basically without quite a large bit of money there will be no having M14's.
 
i'd be tickled poopless to get a crack at owning a semi-auto-only-M14.
have niether the desire nor the need to squeeze off a half dozen .308's at a time.
 
If you look hard enough, and pay enough, you can get REAL close to a GI gun.

You most certainly can. There is still some forged receivers made. They are not your typical m14 clone though. Which are themselves expensive.
The price tag of a currently purchased rifle built on such a forged receiver and then the remaining components exceeds many other fine precision rifles in .308 or 7.62x51.
Add in a nice scope and the entire platform costs significantly more than many comparably accurate and durable platforms in the same or similar cartridges.

Hence why those hundreds of thousands destroyed by Clinton would have been so great as affordable surplus.
You can build a similar rifle, but it costs quite a bit more than comparable rifles that can do the same things just as well.
 
Little off topic but a couple guys already posted about it, the m-14 is issued as a designated marksmen's rifle, not issue as a battle rifle to a standard operator/grunt. Only a select few get them. And many guys love their AR's, but in general everyone craps on whatever is in service. When the 1911 were in service everyone complained about them, suddenly they are gone and everyone loves them, but regardless of their state of disrepair the 1911 was not loved by many until recently. Most service arms fail b/c of user error.
 
the govt ordered them destroyed or shipped overseas but we the tax payer payed for them. they should have chopped the recievers and sold them as parts guns like fals. they forget who pays for this stuff.
 
Just get one of these:
http://www.directpaintball.com/Real-Action-Paintball-M-14-Rifle-Paintball-Gun-P20643.aspx
Gun-R4-M14Rf.jpg


* The M14 Pro Series replica paintball gun is made out of a real ex-military M14
* Front sight, gas plug, barrel ferrule, Vietnam-era fiberglass jungle stock, steel 20-round magazine, shoulder sling, rear sight elevation and windage knobs are all original U.S.G.I. M14 parts
* Receiver is cast from the back half a real M14 receiver. (M14 receivers are illegal in many states because they are considered machine guns and our government cut all the military receivers in half before scrapping)
* The M14 replica is correct in size and feel. Over 42" long and weighs over 7 pounds
* The Pro Series M14 is constructed with one of the finest, most durable paintball markers ever produced, the Airgun Designs Automag
* Comes equipped with a quick disconnect nipple for a remote air or CO2 line (available separately)
* Comes with a Smart Parts All American Barrel
* Comes with cloth rifle bag, Automag owner's manual, owner's video tape, tool kit, real military sling, and disassembly instructions
* .68 caliber


And you can have it for just $1700.



I really like the M14 and wish they hadn't destroyed so many. Talk about a loss of revenue for the government all in the name of some idiotic....better stop there before I get too political. :mad:
 
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