RockyMtnTactical
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- Oct 21, 2006
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A 10/22 or a Marlin 60 would be a great cheap survival rifle.
Survival gun.
- Thread starter bkjeffrey
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Had a good friend that kept a .22 lever gun in his barn with 10 holes drilled in the bottom of the stock, which held 2 rounds each. He covered them with a piece of innertube, stretched over the stock. He could role the tube to expose each hole and load the gun. Neat set up.
Jim
Jim
frogomatic
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- Aug 12, 2007
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- 522
I survived for 2 weeks alone in the bush, with just my clothes, my ka-bar, a pocket of ammo, and my dad's .22/.410 O/U. This was a right of passage for myself and both of my brothers. I'm the only one, however, who didn't want to come back to the "civilized" world.
yeah, my choice for a survival gun would be a rifle/shotgun combo of one type or another. I like the smaller caliber options becuase I can carry more ammunition.
yeah, my choice for a survival gun would be a rifle/shotgun combo of one type or another. I like the smaller caliber options becuase I can carry more ammunition.
JamisJockey
member
For the Savage O/U, I'd say go with the .22lr/20ga. The 20 with buck or slugs for SD and the .22lr for hunting small game for chow.
Fishing with a bayonet? Legal tackle? in a survival situation you set lines and leave them while you do other things you need done. Requires very little work, and you can do things like hunt, mend gear or work on your shelter. If you're patient enough to stand there and try and bayonet wild fish...good for you. I'll go take a nap and eat in a few hours, thank you very much.
Fishing with a bayonet? Legal tackle? in a survival situation you set lines and leave them while you do other things you need done. Requires very little work, and you can do things like hunt, mend gear or work on your shelter. If you're patient enough to stand there and try and bayonet wild fish...good for you. I'll go take a nap and eat in a few hours, thank you very much.
Neo-Luddite
Member
When I was 15 I popped the but plate off my 10/22 and drilled some holes for a dozen or so .22 Win HP's---they are still there. I also painted the stock w/ black epoxy put a tasco scope on the thing and cemeted on a slip on flash hider that kept falling off. I was ready for the fall of society--I also had a bi-pod.
I think the sears .410 sounds good--get a strap-on pack for the stock (as said--m-1 carbine pouch has some space).
I think the sears .410 sounds good--get a strap-on pack for the stock (as said--m-1 carbine pouch has some space).
bkjeffrey
Member
heres what ive come up with.
I started this post at 1:30 today, and its like 10:30 now and heres what ive got. $50 and 10 hours later. I think the 410 is great because like so many of said, " smaller means more ammo". With 410 I got a pretty good chance dropping a bird out of a tree or hitting a rabbit. Its small and light weight. I can carry slugs for a little extra knock down power if I should ever need it.
I drilled out the butt stock with enought space for some small items. I secured a "riflemans pouch" to the right side of the stock-$6 at Academy. I actually screwed the pouch the the stock so I wouldnt have to worry about losing my gear while running. Also put a shell holder on the left side. I was curious to see if it affected my cheek weld, but it doesnt really get in the way. I also added a cheapo leather sling. Leather has a ton of uses. wrapped around the sling if 40 feet of 550 cord. 550 has that really tiny synthetic line inside that would be good gor fishing as well. The items i picked up at Academy were all under 25 bucks and are as follows.
-30 Katadyne water tablets
-Small compass/thermometer
-CBR mask bag (super heavy duty ziplock)
-Emergency Blanket
-Old tin dog tag of mine
-4 pouches of lipton. (even if you cant boil water you can get em wet and suck on em. Theyre high in anti-oxidants. Good for calories too.
-3 resraunt packs of salt (sodium is a life essential mineral)
-3 Beef cubes
-5 packs of alcohol wipes.
-5 cloth band aids
-whistle
-20 feet orange twine
-Red LED light. (small, lasts forever and can bee seen over a mile away)
-2 tootk pick
-chapstick
-diamond stick knife sharpener
-Strike a fire ( Basically big a$$ matches that burn forever)
-3 large 2 small fishing hooks wrapped in electrical tape
-small mirror
-5 slugs
-5 no6
-40 feet of 550 cord
-2 lighters.
All this fits in the buttstock and pouch for an easy convenient grab it and go gun.
I started this post at 1:30 today, and its like 10:30 now and heres what ive got. $50 and 10 hours later. I think the 410 is great because like so many of said, " smaller means more ammo". With 410 I got a pretty good chance dropping a bird out of a tree or hitting a rabbit. Its small and light weight. I can carry slugs for a little extra knock down power if I should ever need it.
I drilled out the butt stock with enought space for some small items. I secured a "riflemans pouch" to the right side of the stock-$6 at Academy. I actually screwed the pouch the the stock so I wouldnt have to worry about losing my gear while running. Also put a shell holder on the left side. I was curious to see if it affected my cheek weld, but it doesnt really get in the way. I also added a cheapo leather sling. Leather has a ton of uses. wrapped around the sling if 40 feet of 550 cord. 550 has that really tiny synthetic line inside that would be good gor fishing as well. The items i picked up at Academy were all under 25 bucks and are as follows.
-30 Katadyne water tablets
-Small compass/thermometer
-CBR mask bag (super heavy duty ziplock)
-Emergency Blanket
-Old tin dog tag of mine
-4 pouches of lipton. (even if you cant boil water you can get em wet and suck on em. Theyre high in anti-oxidants. Good for calories too.
-3 resraunt packs of salt (sodium is a life essential mineral)
-3 Beef cubes
-5 packs of alcohol wipes.
-5 cloth band aids
-whistle
-20 feet orange twine
-Red LED light. (small, lasts forever and can bee seen over a mile away)
-2 tootk pick
-chapstick
-diamond stick knife sharpener
-Strike a fire ( Basically big a$$ matches that burn forever)
-3 large 2 small fishing hooks wrapped in electrical tape
-small mirror
-5 slugs
-5 no6
-40 feet of 550 cord
-2 lighters.
All this fits in the buttstock and pouch for an easy convenient grab it and go gun.
That is so cool! I wonder about some of the stuff though. Tea has calories? What, do you eat the paper? What's the thermometer for, or was that just a package deal with the compass?
I like the idea of storing twine on the sling, but knowing me, within two hours it would be unraveled.
Neo-Luddite: I'd change that ammo out once in a while.
I like the idea of storing twine on the sling, but knowing me, within two hours it would be unraveled.
Neo-Luddite: I'd change that ammo out once in a while.
sm
member
"survival"
Re: Fishing line.
Comes in handy for non-fishing uses.
-Snares for instance for small game and therefore not having to shoot, saving ammunition and not giving away location.
-Suture a nasty cut using a fish hook for a needle.
-Sewing your coat/clothing, using fish hook as a needle.
-Thirsty? No cup huh? Don't want to take off footwear to drink out the creek, lake, pond...
Make a cup, using sticks, twigs and leaves, lashing with fishing line.
If have some Aluminum foil, line with that , if not, a little mud is not going to hurt you, besides, mud dries and line with more leaves.
-Serious matter, and need to stay quiet? Fishing line around two sticks and make garrote.
Folks said "survival" nobody said I had to use a gun for everything.
Re: Fishing line.
Comes in handy for non-fishing uses.
-Snares for instance for small game and therefore not having to shoot, saving ammunition and not giving away location.
-Suture a nasty cut using a fish hook for a needle.
-Sewing your coat/clothing, using fish hook as a needle.
-Thirsty? No cup huh? Don't want to take off footwear to drink out the creek, lake, pond...
Make a cup, using sticks, twigs and leaves, lashing with fishing line.
If have some Aluminum foil, line with that , if not, a little mud is not going to hurt you, besides, mud dries and line with more leaves.
-Serious matter, and need to stay quiet? Fishing line around two sticks and make garrote.
Folks said "survival" nobody said I had to use a gun for everything.
Neo-Luddite
Member
230 RN -- I'm not counting on it anymore-- it was may big innovation as a kid 20 years ago. Now that I think on it, a good whack to the but on that 10/22 might set off a surprise!
As I've got older the 'go bag' or survival kit has expanded to become less streamlined and 'high speed'--plus, I don't trek out enought that it matters.
Anyway, nice kit there BK---but is *THAT* the Sears .410???? Looks nice!
As I've got older the 'go bag' or survival kit has expanded to become less streamlined and 'high speed'--plus, I don't trek out enought that it matters.
Anyway, nice kit there BK---but is *THAT* the Sears .410???? Looks nice!
JamisJockey
member
Great kit! I'd trade in the lighters for a magnesium fire starter.
And a few people have poo-poo'd the fishing kit, but IMHO if you're going to venture out its a great thing to have. Its light, takes up very little space and has more than a few uses. A line can be set on a brach in a creek, baited with something natural you find under a log (grub, worm, snail etc) and left for a few hours or even days if you use SS hooks. Use a surgeon's knot on the end od the line so you can re-set it in another location quickly.
Anyways, that's a nice setup. Screwing the pouch to the butt is a great idea, makes it part of the rifle and very easy to just pick up and take off with.
And a few people have poo-poo'd the fishing kit, but IMHO if you're going to venture out its a great thing to have. Its light, takes up very little space and has more than a few uses. A line can be set on a brach in a creek, baited with something natural you find under a log (grub, worm, snail etc) and left for a few hours or even days if you use SS hooks. Use a surgeon's knot on the end od the line so you can re-set it in another location quickly.
Anyways, that's a nice setup. Screwing the pouch to the butt is a great idea, makes it part of the rifle and very easy to just pick up and take off with.
Dirty Bob
Member
I concur on the .22/20ga as being a great and useful combo. One of the Chipmunk .22 rifles for kids would make a good survival gun, as well. They're small and light and the example I've used was accurate.
With any .22, however, you should try as many types of ammo as you can until you find one that it likes, then stock up!
Regards,
Dirty Bob
With any .22, however, you should try as many types of ammo as you can until you find one that it likes, then stock up!
Regards,
Dirty Bob
ThomasT
Member
Dirty Bob, I agree with the .22 chipmonk or the Henry companies version of the tiny rifle. I just wish that they would add a screw on stock extender for a little better fit.
bkjeffrey
Member
Yup Neo, thats the Sears .410. It was given to my by a neighbor a while back. I sprayed the stock with aerosol truck bed liner, and painted it camo with some Krylon. The picatinney hand guard was the bottom half of a Knights Armament rail system for AR15. I just drilled and tapped into the barrell to secure it since the rifle had no provisions for sighting. I need to figure out what type of scope to put on it now, most likely a cheap red dot, I dunno. I thought that maybe drilling the barrell would ruin the gun, but I did that over 2 years ago and probably shot a few hundred rounds or so with no problem. Oh, thanks SM, a needle or 20 is now added to the kit.
I think you are talking about having a basic kit, in case you break down, get "snowed" in and something that you can do "incidental" hunting with...
I would recommend getting the below rifle and a water resistant backpack or messenger bag. In that bag carry
With that little kit, you should be able to survive for a few weeks... Supposing that you have water. Remember how James Kim and family got stuck in California high country during a winter storm? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Kim Had he an outfit like the above, things might have turned out better. In any event, the above should keep you reasonably well prepared (especially if you use it and get used to using it) in case something similar were to befall you. Discussions like this can of course lead to walking around with a 150 lbs bag... Which no one does for long. So better to just put something together...
I like the .22lr Henry because it is reasonably accurate, lightweight, can fit into a backpack or messenger bag with little fuss. Bringing down a moose or something in a survival scenario is at once GOOD and NOT SO GOOD. Chances are most of the meat will spoil before you get it cured (requires knowing how) which is a terrible waste. Better to stick with rabbits and squirrels and the occasional bullfrog!
Not that it makes a difference, but I carry the same gun and a similar pack in my truck with a CB radio.
I would recommend getting the below rifle and a water resistant backpack or messenger bag. In that bag carry
With that little kit, you should be able to survive for a few weeks... Supposing that you have water. Remember how James Kim and family got stuck in California high country during a winter storm? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Kim Had he an outfit like the above, things might have turned out better. In any event, the above should keep you reasonably well prepared (especially if you use it and get used to using it) in case something similar were to befall you. Discussions like this can of course lead to walking around with a 150 lbs bag... Which no one does for long. So better to just put something together...
I like the .22lr Henry because it is reasonably accurate, lightweight, can fit into a backpack or messenger bag with little fuss. Bringing down a moose or something in a survival scenario is at once GOOD and NOT SO GOOD. Chances are most of the meat will spoil before you get it cured (requires knowing how) which is a terrible waste. Better to stick with rabbits and squirrels and the occasional bullfrog!
Not that it makes a difference, but I carry the same gun and a similar pack in my truck with a CB radio.
Dirty Bob
Member
Ratshooter: I think it wouldn't be very difficult to make a stock extension for the Chipmunk. I found that with some modifications to my style, I was able to shoot it comfortably from prone, offhand, and kneeling. Sitting was out of the question, however.
P.S: Ratshooter...great name for someone posting to this thread! If I was stranded somewhere with a .22, I'd be very happy to see a rat or a squirrel!
Great discussion, with useful info. Thanks to all of you!
Regards,
Dirty Bob
Omaha-BeenGlockin
Member
How about this:http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/SelfLoading/70PSS.aspx
The case floats and you could stick all the other stuff for your kit in there too.
The case floats and you could stick all the other stuff for your kit in there too.
Fletchette
Member
I love threads like these!
Since the original question was about survival guns, what do you think about pistols?
I normally carry a little NAA .22/.22mag for dealing with snakes (really) and have also carried a Browning Buckmark. The Buckmark is heavier but I can easily hit a rabbit at hunting ranges so I feel it is a lighter weight equivalent to a .22 rifle as far as survival is concerned. It is probably faster to get into action than a .22 rifle that has to be assembled before use.
All the survival gear (fire starters, fishing gear, etc.) goes into a hiking bag along with the Buckmark, so the bag is the only thing to grab in an emergency.
Since the original question was about survival guns, what do you think about pistols?
I normally carry a little NAA .22/.22mag for dealing with snakes (really) and have also carried a Browning Buckmark. The Buckmark is heavier but I can easily hit a rabbit at hunting ranges so I feel it is a lighter weight equivalent to a .22 rifle as far as survival is concerned. It is probably faster to get into action than a .22 rifle that has to be assembled before use.
All the survival gear (fire starters, fishing gear, etc.) goes into a hiking bag along with the Buckmark, so the bag is the only thing to grab in an emergency.
ThomasT
Member
Thanks Dirty Bob,
In case you didn't notice my name is Ratshooter and not Rateater. I've ate a lot of squirrels but i'm drawing the line on rats, even through there is not much difference except for size and tail hair.
I got my name from "Jack" the clerk at Shooters Supply in Ft. Worth. I told him how many rats i had been shooting out of a pecan tree at the back of my property with the help of my chow dog "Chopper". He started calling me "Tom the Ratshooter" and the name stuck. That name is far better than some of the other names i have been called that also stuck.
omahabeenglockin is correct. I had just looked at the Marlin sight before i came back here. The Marlin Papoose .22 weighs the same as the Chipmonk,3.25 lb's and comes with a seven shot clip. 10 round clips are $11.00 from Marlin. The Papoose has a plastic stock so the butt should be hollow. I might have to check one of those out. A local pawn shop had one of the wood stock models for $100 but without the case.
In case you didn't notice my name is Ratshooter and not Rateater. I've ate a lot of squirrels but i'm drawing the line on rats, even through there is not much difference except for size and tail hair.
I got my name from "Jack" the clerk at Shooters Supply in Ft. Worth. I told him how many rats i had been shooting out of a pecan tree at the back of my property with the help of my chow dog "Chopper". He started calling me "Tom the Ratshooter" and the name stuck. That name is far better than some of the other names i have been called that also stuck.
omahabeenglockin is correct. I had just looked at the Marlin sight before i came back here. The Marlin Papoose .22 weighs the same as the Chipmonk,3.25 lb's and comes with a seven shot clip. 10 round clips are $11.00 from Marlin. The Papoose has a plastic stock so the butt should be hollow. I might have to check one of those out. A local pawn shop had one of the wood stock models for $100 but without the case.
ThomasT
Member
Flethcette you are spot on. A pistol makes a fine survival gun. To bad that shoulder stocks are illeagle. That would really make a pistol versatile.
I saw a show on the history channel about U.S. soldiers in Alaska during WW2. They had there their rifles for battle but were issued .22 handguns in flap holsters for survival and small game hunting. They never told if the guns were revolvers of or auto's. Maybe someone here knows.
I saw a show on the history channel about U.S. soldiers in Alaska during WW2. They had there their rifles for battle but were issued .22 handguns in flap holsters for survival and small game hunting. They never told if the guns were revolvers of or auto's. Maybe someone here knows.
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ThomasT
Member
That was suppose to be ww2.
Okay, it is my understanding that in the hiarchy of human survival, food is pretty low on the totem pole.
You can bleed to death in seconds, so stopping major bleeding is first.
Air, you got minutes only there, so that is second
Shelter vs Water, you can go a few days without water, but it really makes doing anything else really difficult. Dehydration will as quicky start to affect your ability to reason (after 12 hours or so). But then, if you are lost, and are just going to stay put, then not a whole lot of thinking involved (until you dehydrate and then think it is a good idea to go look for water). Shelter, exposure to the elements can kill you in a single night in the spring/fall in the right conditions, in the winter, in just a few hours you can die.
Food, well, you are going to be just fine for a week, probably 3. Anyways, by day 4 you will probably be eating bugs so no big deal.
Hence, harvesting food, should that be the primary goal on which to design a survival rifle?
What about signaling with it? what about defense? (because being lost in the woods is only one type of survial situation) Honestly, weight wise, would you be better off with a .22 LR plus 100 rounds for getting food, or a single shot 410 and 10 flare rounds?
You can bleed to death in seconds, so stopping major bleeding is first.
Air, you got minutes only there, so that is second
Shelter vs Water, you can go a few days without water, but it really makes doing anything else really difficult. Dehydration will as quicky start to affect your ability to reason (after 12 hours or so). But then, if you are lost, and are just going to stay put, then not a whole lot of thinking involved (until you dehydrate and then think it is a good idea to go look for water). Shelter, exposure to the elements can kill you in a single night in the spring/fall in the right conditions, in the winter, in just a few hours you can die.
Food, well, you are going to be just fine for a week, probably 3. Anyways, by day 4 you will probably be eating bugs so no big deal.
Hence, harvesting food, should that be the primary goal on which to design a survival rifle?
What about signaling with it? what about defense? (because being lost in the woods is only one type of survial situation) Honestly, weight wise, would you be better off with a .22 LR plus 100 rounds for getting food, or a single shot 410 and 10 flare rounds?
Elm Creek Smith
Member
Taurus 85SSUL in .38 Special with 5 in the cylinder, a couple of Speed Strips in the pockets and maybe some speedloaders because it's almost always with me. (I won't mention the P32 and extra mag in my back pocket.)
The take-along gun is a .22 Marlin 15Y with a Weaver K2.5 on it. I'll have to work on the rest of it.
ECS
The take-along gun is a .22 Marlin 15Y with a Weaver K2.5 on it. I'll have to work on the rest of it.
ECS
Fletchette
Member
akodo said:
Good points.
I guess that depends greatly on the type of 'survival' situation you are expecting: caught by a blizzard while hiking? Urban disaster like Katrina or LA riots? Economic collapse with empty grocery stores? Private plane crashes in the wilderness? or maybe a simple tire blow out far from home?
Flares are only useful if you expect help to be coming. This may be a good choice for the blizzard scenario/plane crash scenario.
If you expect no help, such as a Katrina or LA riot scenario, more firepower may be called for.
The situations I was suggesting the .22 pistols for were for hiking/driving out to wilderness areas in mostly good weather. A tire blow type situation.
A shotgun is pretty darn versitile, but heavy. It can be used for self-defense, harvesting game, launching flares, etc. However, most people would not carry one 'just in case'. They may have one in a truck, however.
Good points.
I guess that depends greatly on the type of 'survival' situation you are expecting: caught by a blizzard while hiking? Urban disaster like Katrina or LA riots? Economic collapse with empty grocery stores? Private plane crashes in the wilderness? or maybe a simple tire blow out far from home?
Flares are only useful if you expect help to be coming. This may be a good choice for the blizzard scenario/plane crash scenario.
If you expect no help, such as a Katrina or LA riot scenario, more firepower may be called for.
The situations I was suggesting the .22 pistols for were for hiking/driving out to wilderness areas in mostly good weather. A tire blow type situation.
A shotgun is pretty darn versitile, but heavy. It can be used for self-defense, harvesting game, launching flares, etc. However, most people would not carry one 'just in case'. They may have one in a truck, however.
Here's what I'd say would make a pretty good "survival gun":
- take a sturdy rifle of any kind /w a stock that can be hollowed out, is hollow, or is of minimal size (ie a skeleton stock or collapseable stock)
- make/take a small canvas/durable bag about 5"x8" and sew 2 nylon straps onto the back (as if you were going to put a belt through them, but bigger and adjustable for the stock to fit through). then put another strap connecting one side of the bag to one of the straps (for a harness of sorts to snug it up against the butt). it should also be adjustable.
- put a durable 'emergency shelter' in the bag (the nylon type, or maybe ripstop - something water/wind resistant), as well as a lighter and an emergency blanket.
- put a windproof lighter or two, a bic, some matches, a sewing needle, fine fishing line, fishing hooks (protect the tips of the hooks w/ a synthetic lure) and what have you in a ziplock bag.
- put tarp and ziplock in pouch, and pull snug to the stock via the straps. I'd say put it on the inside/cheekside of the stock, but it'd all depend on how big the pouch is for you and how the rifle fits beforehand.
If you're trying to "survive" the biggest detriment will be the elements, hot or cold, wet or dry. Something that will protect you from the harshest elements and allow you to easily gather precipatory water (for consumption)
- take a sturdy rifle of any kind /w a stock that can be hollowed out, is hollow, or is of minimal size (ie a skeleton stock or collapseable stock)
- make/take a small canvas/durable bag about 5"x8" and sew 2 nylon straps onto the back (as if you were going to put a belt through them, but bigger and adjustable for the stock to fit through). then put another strap connecting one side of the bag to one of the straps (for a harness of sorts to snug it up against the butt). it should also be adjustable.
- put a durable 'emergency shelter' in the bag (the nylon type, or maybe ripstop - something water/wind resistant), as well as a lighter and an emergency blanket.
- put a windproof lighter or two, a bic, some matches, a sewing needle, fine fishing line, fishing hooks (protect the tips of the hooks w/ a synthetic lure) and what have you in a ziplock bag.
- put tarp and ziplock in pouch, and pull snug to the stock via the straps. I'd say put it on the inside/cheekside of the stock, but it'd all depend on how big the pouch is for you and how the rifle fits beforehand.
If you're trying to "survive" the biggest detriment will be the elements, hot or cold, wet or dry. Something that will protect you from the harshest elements and allow you to easily gather precipatory water (for consumption)
Dionysusigma
Member
With all this talk about a "survival gun," and the need for it to be a .22, why not go with something inexpensive, accurate, and reliable like a Heritage .22 single-action revo?
Smaller gun, so it takes less space and weighs less. Also holds five more rounds than most suggestions here, and is capable of quicker follow-up shots than a single or bolt and is by far more reliable than a Henry AR-7. Costs about $150 and is quite capable of killing small game. Not finicky on ammo, blah blah blah...
Smaller gun, so it takes less space and weighs less. Also holds five more rounds than most suggestions here, and is capable of quicker follow-up shots than a single or bolt and is by far more reliable than a Henry AR-7. Costs about $150 and is quite capable of killing small game. Not finicky on ammo, blah blah blah...
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